As Stu had said, I'm not an EE, but I would think it's much more likely that an amp could damage the op-amp, than the other way around, but it's not out of the question, certainly.
I must be a lucky guy. I have been using my full boat Bursons for several months now with no issues whatsoever. I'm extremely happy with the sound quality and the couple of times I switched back to my 797/823 combo only confirmed my impressions.
I've been wondering about that max voltage rating and how that plays out practically as regards the voltage input to the H10. I'm running the X20 balanced with no attenuation into the H10 (which has very high output voltage) and I never have have the H10's volume control above 10 o'clock. I'm not an EE so I don't know whether this means I've been running the H10 below it's max rail voltage on the op-amps, or whether that is a static figure that is independent of input voltage and gain. Someone who knows should chime in.
I am not an expert in electronics but my limited knowledge from long time ago suggests that neither gain nor input voltage relate to opamp supply/rail voltage - that parameter is usually constant for a given design of amplifier.
I agree. The amp's input voltage (240 vs. 120) is not a factor. And the voltage supplied to the op-amps (+/- 16V or +/- 16.5V, as measured in an H10 evaluated by Burson) probably doesn't vary with the gain or volume settings. You can think of an amp's gain setting as a multiplier and the (attenuating) volume control as a divider. For whatever combination of gain and attenuation setting you select to achieve a desired SPL in your headphones, the load or the amount of work performed by the amp (and its op-amps) will be the same - whether you decide to run with less gain and less attenuation, or more gain and more attenuation.
But Stu's theory regarding his Line Level voltage (coming from the DAC) makes sense to me. Anyone using a DAC that has a Line Level output less than the standard 2V rms will be causing the amp to work harder than it would with a higher Line Level voltage - to achieve any given desired SPL with any given headphone.
Note that Burson hasn't communicated (here) any suspect factors other than the H10's supply voltage.
By the way - even though this is not likely a factor in pampering your Burson V5 op-amps, for a given headphone, it's always best to choose the lowest gain that will allow you to achieve your desired SPL. This will give you the quietest possible noise floor and the most finesse when adjusting the volume control. Using a higher gain than necessary raises the noise floor and leaves you with less travel on the volume control.
Note that Burson hasn't communicated (here) any suspect factors other than the H10's supply voltage.
By the way - even though this is not likely a factor in pampering your Burson V5 op-amps, for a given headphone, it's always best to choose the lowest gain that will allow you to achieve your desired SPL. This will give you the quietest possible noise floor and the most finesse when adjusting the volume control. Using a higher gain than necessary raises the noise floor and leaves you with less travel on the volume control.
Are you suggesting to set all the gain switches in the back of H10 to the bottom? I have been running my H10 with the +6db switch at the upper position. I will try the all bottom position when I get home today.
Are you suggesting to set all the gain switches in the back of H10 to the bottom? I have been running my H10 with the +6db switch at the upper position. I will try the all bottom position when I get home today.
I don't know how to minimize the H10's gain settings (I don't have an H10), but I am recommending that the gain be set as low as possible to achieve the SPL you desire with a given efficiency of headphone, such that the volume control is turned up higher instead of turned lower.
For all amps with adjustable gain, start with the lowest gain setting. If this doesn't allow you to achieve the SPL you desire in your headphones, even with the volume control turned all the way up, turn down the volume and try the next highest gain setting. Stop at the gain setting that's just high enough to give you enough SPL at the headphones, wherever that leaves your volume control. The only reason to go to a higher gain setting is to achieve a higher SPL when the volume control is already maxed out.
This approach will give you a lower noise floor while having no impact on dynamics or headroom. You don't get more headroom by going to a higher gain setting. You just get more noise. Inefficient headphones (i,e. HE6) need more gain, but can't hear the noise that comes with using a higher gain setting. Efficient IEMs might hear hiss even on low gain, but it will be even worse on a higher gain setting.
Again, I don't think the gain settings will have any impact on making life easier for the Burson V5 op-amps. Using a DAC with a higher LIne Out voltage or using a more efficient headphone might help though, by way of giving the amp less work to do to reach your desired SPL. But the most obvious issue can't be user-compensated: The H10's supply voltage is too high for the current version of the Burson V5. (Or, if you prefer, the maximum permissible supply voltage of the current version of the Burson V5 is too low for the H10.)
On the subject of Line Level voltages coming from the DAC, some amps, both solid state and tube (but I don't know how to identify which ones other than by listening), will actually change from sounding more laid back, with reduced dynamics, if the voltage coming in from the DAC is reduced, while the same amp, after volume matching, could have more punch or slam and improved dynamics, if the Line Level voltage from the DAC is increased.
For people who have DACs with adjustable output, increasing the DAC's output voltage while turning down the amp's volume (to keep the SPL the same) - or doing the inverse - might allow you to discover a "sweet spot" where the amp sees a load that it finds ideal. It's analagous to finding just the right gear when climbing a slight grade with a 10-speed bike. Too low a gear and you'll be working too hard to achieve a desired speed. Too high a gear and you'll be over-revving. Changing a DAC's output voltage is like shifting gears. Turning up the amp's gain and/or the amp's volume, is like pedaling faster. Switching to a less efficient headphone is like climbing a steeper hill.
In fact the first time my bursons failed was when I had -12db setting on.
For my sources, my bursons have three times each using a different DAC: fiio X5, Aune T1 and Audio-GD SA-1.32
I hope Burson is doing some serious testing to improve their V5s. I don't know the cost to manufacture one, but I'm guessing it isn't that much. However, incidents like this will lose potential buyers and will have to keep replacing damaged ones.
Are there any one here that has a HD700 if so what gain settings do you use? So I know when every my HD700 get here thanks. Also look like I gonna be starting up the op-amp swapping spree again, I hope I don't strip any more of the gustard H10 screws as it seem like they does that very often, I already did that to two of them, to the point that The spots on the back got messed up where I have to use Duct tape to keep the rear on the amp. If only I had a 3D printer or they sold pieces to the amp to replace the damage parts on the casing.
I would had at least thought they would use better screws.
In fact the first time my bursons failed was when I had -12db setting on.
For my sources, my bursons have three times, each using a different DAC: fiio X5, Aune T1 and Audio-GD SA-1.32
Wow, you are a trooper, sticking it out through three failures.
Thus far, having had two V5 Duals in my iBasso PB2 portable amp for the past 12 Days, I've not detected any problems with their function, despite the cosmetic issues.
Even if I did have to return a failed pair of Burson V5 op-amps, I would want to keep them coming under the Lifetime Warranty and continue using them, because the sound of the Burson V5 is so much better than any other op-amp I've tried in about four years of rolling op-amps in the iBasso PB2.
It's far better than my former favorites, the LME49990 (for the HD800) and the OPA1612 (for my LCD-2 rev.1, PM-1 and PM-3). It has every bit as much detail as the OPA1612, which tends to be almost "crystaline" with the bright and highly resolving HD800, and it has an even more natural, musical sound than the LME49990, with none of the coloration of the MUSES 02 (a pair of which cost me $150 at mouser.com vs. the $130 pair of Burson V5 Duals.)
But it's the dynamics, soundstage, imaging, and oh so natural timbre of voices and acoustic instruments that blow my mind the most with the Burson V5s. The best soundstage and imaging tend to be very dependent on getting your noise floor way down. Well-designed battery-powered DACs and amps are a huge benefit here, unless you go out of your way to front-end your AC-powered gear with good power conditioning.
I use a voltage regulator and multiple isolation transformers with my desktop rig (with grounded-neutral secondaries for analog gear and floating-neutral secondaries for digital gear).
What I didn't realize until I got the Burson V5 Duals is that my IC-based op-amps (i.e. the MUSES02, LME49990 and OPA1612 - ranked greatest to least noise) were the noisiest components in my battery-powered PB2. Note that I feed the PB2 with either the battery-powered Sony Walkman NWZ-A17 DAP (bypassing its DAC and amp, using it only as a micro SD card reader for FLAC files) -or- a battery-powered iPod Touch 6 (bypassing its DAC and amp, using it only as a WiFi streamer or offline player for Tidal HiFi), as inputs to the very clean and transparent, battery-powered Oppo HA-2 ES9018K2M DAC (bypassing its amp) to drive the battery-powered PB2.
Sorry to keep writing "battery-powered" but I'm trying to emphasize that if you want to hear some really freaking clean and transparent audio, drop the Burson V5 into something that you can power with a capacitor-buffered battery pack. I'm tempted to get the 24V Burson Lycan headphone amp, because I've already got a battery power setup for my 24V speaker amp - the TGI Millinia MG3, but the Lycan can only generate half the power of tge balanced push-pull design iBasso PB2.
The PB2 has an internal LiPo battery that ranges in voltage from 9.0V when fully discharged to 12.6V when fully charged. So, at least when using the internal battery, I'm pretty sure the PB2 doesn't supply more than +/-12.6V to the op-amps.
But when running with an external power supply, the PB2 manual says it can handle up to 16V. I have an Energizer XP8000 with which I can use my choice of a 15V inline voltage regulator (called the XPAL Willy Cable WI15) or a switchable 16V or 19V inline voltage regulator (called the XPAL Willy Cable WI16).
Here's the PB2 after soldering some Elna SILMIC II 35V 10uF coupling capacitors across Pins 4 and 8 of two DIP8 extenders (two days ago):
Burson's site has a couple of pages where this is discussed/recommended, but it was Head-Fi member "pelopidas" who suggested soldering the caps to the DIP8 extenders instead of soldering them directly to the op-amp pins. Great idea! They are a lot easier to A/B than desoldering and re-soldering the caps and I can use these with any dual op-amps.
Both of those pages talk about upgrading capacitors on the amp's PCB in addition to adding caps at the op-amps' pins, but I'm still too novice at soldering to venture any experimentation with upgrading the caps of my amp.
This will have to do, for now, and it's doing a great job of improving dynamics - with lots of power on reserve for those big drum hits and such. The bass has more control, too. Joy! I didn't think it could get any better than what the V5 itself brings to the table, but people are adding these power coupling caps for a reason!
So, back to V5 impressions... Having lowered the noise floor with the Burson V5 Duals, the sound stage has expanded a lot and I can hear all kinds of micro details and trailing decays and a more realistic timbre for both voices and acoustic instruments, that I can't hear even with my best (but still "mid-fi") desktop rig - the Metrum Octave MkII > Metrum Aurix - the resolution showstopper there being the DAC, not the amp). But where I've long enjoyed the Metrum stack for the "natural," non-fatiguing sound of the NOS DAC and zero-feedback amp, I am totally hooked on my little portable rig, now, as it takes me closer than ever before to what the best performance I can get from the HD800. I don't know what Burson did to get solid state to sound this good, but it sounds just a little bit euphonic, but still very neutral and transparent - the kind of transparency and resolution you can only get with tubes by spending a lot of money. "Analog" might be a better choice of words than "euphonic," but only what we crave about analog sources, without the unsavory aspects that, again, can only be avoided by spending lots of money with analog sources. For sure, the V5 doesn't sound as "digital" as any other op-amp I've used.
The imaging is more precise, with a few studio recordings sounding almost binaural - some stuff even comes from over one shoulder or the other, to the point I catch myself snapping my head around to look, but even though the soundstage is expansive, I don't feel as if I'm seated in the back of the auditorium, as I always did with the Beyerdyanmics T1 when driven by the Burson Soloist. Instead, I'm right where I belong - in the first couple of rows back from the stage.
I don't know where this road ends, because the HD800 seems to scale to quality endlessly, but I'm enjoying my music like never before. It's not too much to say that the Burson V5 has been as emotionally impacting as when I first got my LCD0-2 rev.1, over four years ago. That's saying a lot for an op-amp! But I have much more analytical ears now, than I did back then, so that's part of it. Perhaps I'm just better able to appreciate the good stuff.
I look forward to getting back to my rig at every opportunity. Everything else seems a distraction right now compared to just listening to music.
Meanwhile, Burson has given me a FedEx tracking number for a new pair of V5s - that aren't twisted at the base - coming at me free of charge. Joy! Defects might sneak out of their warehouse from time to time, but I have to say, they are really good about rectifying the situation in the long run.
Meanwhile, Burson has given me a FedEx tracking number for a new pair of V5s - that aren't twisted at the base - coming at me free of charge. Joy! Defects might sneak out of their warehouse from time to time, but I have to say, they are really good about rectifying the situation in the long run.
Wow, they're actually sending you a new pair? Damn, that's awesome. Good for you man!
On the photos I sent, Burson agreed that the V5s were defective, even though I am beyond satisfied with their sound. And they were very gracious about it, too. (No arm-twisting required.)
I have to agree. The guys at Burson are top notch. I've had nothing but excellent customer service from them.
May I point out that many companies have had issues like this with their product. Apple, Samsung, all the top name companies. These things are going to happen, we're dealing with electronics. What defines them as a company is how they respond to the issues. I think that Burson has responded admirably. They are standing behind their product, no questions asked. They are paying for shipping both ways and you are getting brand new product. I think it speaks for itself.
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