[camrector]

More Confirmation from Gustard.

There is no multibit DSD decoding.

The photo that @sajunky circled is NOT a multibit decoder

DSD is converted to PCM with DSD direct off.

Photos of my email and Gustards response.

 

[Zaurux]

Well, I'm reading with interest and I think (or thought) I had a gain by changing my Pegasus (used in DSD256 - 6bits decoder), I'm still wondering.
Not sure that the decoding of the R26 is superior. The gains can probably be found in the streamer and in the possibility to switch to DSD512 (the Pegasus allows it but my streamer is limited to 256).
So, there is still a subject that I haven't seen addressed on either side.
Has the comparison between the R26 and the A26 been made in an objective and documented way (hardware ?) ??
I have a new USB cable (not tested on any forum yet) which arrives tomorrow.
So I still have some time... but in the end maybe no gain to switch to a Gustrad (for DSD playback).
At least... that makes questions, messages... and messages !

Edit : for the fun.. i read :

The AK4499EX is a new concept Premium multi-bit Stereo DAC with newly developed Switched Resistor technology, achieving the industry’s leading level low distortion and low noise characteristics. It is suitable for playback of high-resolution audio sources that are becoming widespread in Network Audio and USBDACs Audio systems. Multi-bit Modulator input for a high-precision audio source playback (7bits).

https://www.akm.com/eu/en/products/audio/audio-dac/ak4499exeq/

 

[Davidv100]

Camcorder,
As a tiny reminder, will you then also try to get A26 schematics ?
As we have seen, this make discussions more objective.
Thanks a lot.

 

[camrector]

Well, I'm reading with interest and I think (or thought) I had a gain by changing my Pegasus (used in DSD256 - 6bits decoder), I'm still wondering.
Not sure that the decoding of the R26 is superior. The gains can probably be found in the streamer and in the possibility to switch to DSD512 (the Pegasus allows it but my streamer is limited to 256).
So, there is still a subject that I haven't seen addressed on either side.
Has the comparison between the R26 and the A26 been made in an objective and documented way (hardware ?) ??
I have a new USB cable (not tested on any forum yet) which arrives tomorrow.
So I still have some time... but in the end maybe no gain to switch to a Gustrad (for DSD playback).
At least... that makes questions, messages... and messages !

Edit : for the fun.. i read :

https://www.akm.com/eu/en/products/audio/audio-dac/ak4499exeq/

I have a pretty large DSD library and if listening to DSD was important to me I would purchase the A26 over the R26, soley based on how it processes DSD.
I haven’t heard the A26 so I can’t respond to how that DSD sounds. My opinion is based completely on the technical.
The R26 playing PCM is the best DAC I’ve heard under $5000.

Others here upsample to DSD using other players (HQ, JRiver, Roon etc etc), and love the R26s abilities with DSD. I can’t speak to those merits because I do not upsample.

 

[camrector]

Camcorder,
As a tiny reminder, will you then also try to get A26 schematics ?
As we have seen, this make discussions more objective.
Thanks a lot.

Yes I can. Is there something specific you want me to ask?
I know that the A26 uses a multibit decoder chip.

 

[sajunky]

Yes I can. Is there something specific you want me to ask?
I know that the A26 uses a multibit decoder chip.

Like in any modern chipDAC.

You can ask them what this circled section is used for. One thing we know for sure. It is not a R2R ladder. Not sure you will get a honest response.

 

[Knobstler]

I just discovered that i can also cast the r26 from my lg g8x over usb audio player pro.

 

[Davidv100]

Yes I can. Is there something specific you want me to ask?
I know that the A26 uses a multibit decoder chip.

Sure : I explain here below what I am looking for :

I am still hesitating between A26 and R26.
It seems obvious that A26 will be better for DSD than R26 (by design).

But in my particular case, I know I will be feeding the DAC with PCM only (Not DSD).

I would like to see anything schematic that would be reassuring/convincing that A26 would also be an excellent solution when fed with PCM only (or is R26 the obvious solution, nothing to see here).

A26 standing a chance at being better than R26 for PCM is not completely out of the question (even if the R2R ladder of R26 seems the better traditional way). A26 is 6 months younger, new chip, new approach may be…
indeed, for example, it is not sure that an R2R ladder can efficiently go deeper than 18bits, 20bits max (according to Paul McGowan of PS Audio).

So, to keep a long story short :
- Anything about PCM input & processing on A26 would be super helpful. Preferably schematic.
- And even the bold straight forward questions : “Do you, Gustard guys, think that A26, fed with PCM only, may somehow beat R26 in this use case ?“, “Would you, Gustard guys, recommend A26 over R26, for a PCM input mode only ?”

Thank a lot Camrector.

 

[camrector]

Like in any modern chipDAC.

You can ask them what this circled section is used for. One thing we know for sure. It is not a R2R ladder. Not sure you will get a honest response.

Yes like any modern chip DAC because the A26 is a modern chip DAC.

I can ask but from BShaws photo it is not even in the units.

 

[comzee]

Reading the last 10 pages

I said it way early on in this thread, and I'm still confused. Why is there endless discussion with DSD on a dac that's specifically made for PCM.
I'm not knocking anybody for wanting to use DSD, you do you. But like... why buy an R26? You're paying so much for something you'll never use (the r2r ladder).

There's gotta be better and/or cheaper dacs for DSD out there, right?

The endless discussion on how the technicalities specifically work with DSD in this dac is like hearing people discuss what's the best sedan for offroading... buy a Jeep/Truck..?

Or am I missing something here, did Gustard unintentionally make this the best DSD dac ever created?
(the 1bit implementation seems as cookie cutter as they come in R26, and is implemented in 100s of other PCM dacs)

 

[camrector]

Sure : I explain here below what I am looking for :

I am still hesitating between A26 and R26.
It seems obvious that A26 will be better for DSD than R26 (by design).

But in my particular case, I know I will be feeding the DAC with PCM only (Not DSD).

I would like to see anything schematic that would be reassuring/convincing that A26 would also be an excellent solution when fed with PCM only (or is R26 the obvious solution, nothing to see here).

A26 standing a chance at being better than R26 for PCM is not completely out of the question (even if the R2R ladder of R26 seems the better traditional way). A26 is 6 months younger, new chip, new approach may be…
indeed, for example, it is not sure that an R2R ladder can efficiently go deeper than 18bits, 20bits max (according to Paul McGowan of PS Audio).

So, to keep a long story short :
- Anything about PCM input & processing on A26 would be super helpful. Preferably schematic.
- And even the bold straight forward questions : “Do you, Gustard guys, think that A26, fed with PCM only, may beat than R26 in this use case ?“, “Would you, Gustard guys, recommend A26 over R26, for a PCM input mode only ?”

Thank a lot Camrector.

I think you are just a bit confused here so my apologies if the previous very technical conversation of pcm and DSD did that.

The A26 is a chip dac that uses micro chips to covert digital signal to analog.
The R26 is a R2R dac that uses resistors to convert digital signal to analog.
They use completely different processes to achieve the same goal.
There are positives and negatives to both.
I would say that everyone on this thread prefers the sound qualities of R2R dacs.

 

[camrector]

Reading the last 10 pages

I said it way early on in this thread, and I'm still confused. Why is there endless discussion with DSD on a dac that's specifically made for PCM.
I'm not knocking anybody for wanting to use DSD, you do you. But like... why buy an R26? You're paying so much for something you'll never use (the r2r ladder).

There's gotta be better and/or cheaper dacs for DSD out there, right?

The endless discussion on how the technicalities specifically work with DSD in this dac is like hearing people discuss what's the best sedan for offroading... buy a Jeep/Truck..?

Or am I missing something here, did Gustard unintentionally make this the best DSD dac ever created?
(the 1bit implementation seems as cookie cutter as they come in R26, and is implemented in 100s of other PCM dacs)

Lol I hear you. But
There is not 100s of 1bit DSD/R2R DACs on the market at all!
What they made is literally something that does not exist on the market, then provided subpar info of that product( I would assume language barrier but come on its 2023).
DSD guys are very particular in how the signal is passed along the chain and played back. So with Gustard not being very clear about that process is what you have read through, along with some advice and experience of how to make the 1bit DAC in the R26 sound it’s best.

 

[sajunky]

Yes like any modern chip DAC because the A26 is a modern chip DAC.

I can ask but from BShaws photo it is not even in the units.

You can't see it, as there is no circle, right?

Here is (attached) @BShaw photo with added circle.

 

[SupCompracer]

As @labeelen indicated in post 4,103, the 1Bit DSD is on the R26 main or motherboard while the R-2R ladder is on the daughter board secured with four screws above/covering it.

Welcome to today's edition of void your warranty! The R26 was not harmed in the process. I’m betting the two relays near the center of main board by the stand offs/daughter board connector are the relays you can hear click when you select DSD Direct ON.

 

[Davidv100]

I think you are just a bit confused here so my apologies if the previous very technical conversation of pcm and DSD did that.

The A26 is a chip dac that uses micro chips to covert digital signal to analog.
The R26 is a R2R dac that uses resistors to convert digital signal to analog.
They use completely different processes to achieve the same goal.
There are positives and negatives to both.
I would say that everyone on this thread prefers the sound qualities of R2R dacs.

Camrector : no confusion at all for me.

I fully understand everything that has been said on these last ten pages.
It is very clear for me, as it confirms what I thought and asked here from day one.

But, according to me, it is something else, a YT video by Paul McGowan (PS Audio) that leaves the door open for PCM on A26 as a relevant solution too. I have posted this YT video on the A26 forum a few days ago.

Paul says (in short) that :
- In a perfect world he prefers R2R architecture over Sigma Delta for PCM. Clearly.
- But unfortunately, Paul says there are no R2R ladder resistors precise enough to go deeper than 18 or 20 bits as an absolute maximum. No way to go 24. Resistors precise enough do simply not exist, according to Paul
- To his taste, 24 bits PCM rendering is a minimum.
- Therefore, Paul explains PS Audio builds only Sigma Delta DACs and recommends this even for PCM input (which will obviously first be converted to DSD internally).

Following this reasoning (Sigma Delta going deeper in the PCM bits, before transcoding to PCM), I am thinking A26 might stand a chance too (for PCM)