[Dandoudou]

I do agree with the manual and I made it clear. You put in my mouth something else. This is unacceptable. Discussion is closed.

I did not put anything else in your mouth. I just quoted your post.
Never mind…

 

[sajunky]

DSD direct OFF still sounds more similar to DSD direct ON and less to PCM. I don't know what the reason is.

Because in both cases it is decoding a native DSD (not converting to PCM as many others claim).

With Direct DSD ON. Decoding is a pure bitstream. There are two binary values: digital maximum and zero. Data stream is decoded by the R2R ladder, manual states it correctly. Sound quality sucks like in early Sony Bitstream players. It sounds better if upsampled to at least DSD256 prior feeding a DAC.

With Direct DSD OFF. Manual do not elaborate this case, as there is nothing unusual. Decoding is multibit DSD, using FIR filter, like in many other DACs, including all modern Delta-Sigma chipDACs. DSP is implemented in a separate (from R2R) ladder section. In this mode main R2R ladder is not engaged, but the above ladder, a circled area on the picture posted earlier.

 

[camrector]

I do agree with the manual and I made it clear. You put in my mouth something else. This is unacceptable. Discussion is closed.

Because in both cases it is decoding a native DSD (not converting to PCM as many others claim).

With Direct DSD ON. Decoding is a pure bitstream. There are two binary values: digital maximum and zero. Data stream is decoded by the R2R ladder, manual states it correctly. Sound quality sucks like in early Sony Bitstream players. It sounds better if upsampled to at least DSD256 prior feeding a DAC.

With Direct DSD OFF. Manual do not elaborate this case. Decoding is multibit DSD, using FIR filter, like in many other DACs, including all modern Delta-Sigma chipDACs. DSP is implemented in a separate (from R2R) ladder section. In this mode main R2R ladder is not engaged, but the above ladder, circled on the picture posted earlier.

None of this is True^^^^
The R26 DOES NOT DO MULTIBIT
Whatever random set of resistors you circled isn’t even inside the actual unit .
Gustard below states that only PCM goes to the fir filter.
You have provided zero evidence for what you saying.
We have shown you tons of evidence and even emails from Gustard showing you that you are wrong.
Please leave.

 

[rockcity007]

DSD On= 1 bit DSD dac
DSD Off= Converted to PCM, sent to filter, sent to ladr
NOS On= bypass filter sent to ladr
NOS Off= sent to filter then sent to ladr

+1 thx!

 

[mgsu]

Thank you for the kind words, that's nice of you.
Remember that some things still depend on the equipment.
I run the R26 with the Feliks Euforia paired with 5998 Ibm's and 6SN7 Linlai Elite tubes.
Headphones are Zmf Auteur OG,Lcd 2C,Aeon R/T and although nothing was changed in the setup all 3 headphones sound different.
Znmf best,Lcd 2C second best and Aeon R/T third best and almost not made for it.

Ergo, one must almost say that the "true sound" of each headphone should probably be approached with different setups to get there.

Amplifiers have a lot of influence, as well as the combination between dac and amplifier.
The R26 made a more magical connection with the Euforia amp than my previous Deltasigma Dac.

When I think R26+Euforia with Zmf Auteur magic.
The R26 with my custom hybrid amp and Lcd2 magic.
Aeon R/T with the Ifi Hip Dac 2 magic.
All 3 combinations push the limits of what is possible which is great.

Upsampling, Downsampling,DSD,Mqa are for me personally side dishes to your mentioned carrot which only make you gusto to enjoy it.
That's why a bit of trying,trying until you like it is the way to go.
They don't keep the equipment if they don't like it.they sell it or give it back to the dealer.

Whether you chase the "true sound" is up to you.
For me personally, an amplifier and more Zmf headphones would be interesting, the rest you enjoy when it fits.
I'm really happy with the rest as it is, including the Fmc speakers and the Finisar Aoc cable.

I am rocking the same dac amp combo + ock2
So far, i can't tell any dif between DSD and PCM. There was one at the beginning of the burn in periode but now dsd and pcm are same

 

[Deleeh]

@sajunky

Where do you get your information?
Is it possible that you are confusing the R26 with another Dac?

There is no multibit in the R26 according to Gustard, even the brochure doesn't mention it.

The 1 bit Dac refers to Usb and I2S as it seems.
Lan is not mentioned at all.
However, only the last picture below mentions that a 1-bit conversion takes place.
That is also the only information about it.
There is no mention of multibit.
And other outputs are only supported up to 64 DSD.

And it looks like there are only 2 ranges
1 bit and R2R conductors, technically speaking, these are 2 areas where each channel can be processed.
Ergo, you can only select between "1 Bit1 and "R2R", which will probably be the DSD ON/OFF function.
Correct me if I'm wrong about the last sentence.

It's true that it's a Sony 1-bit Dac, but you can't make a multibit out of a 1-bit Dac if there's nothing there.
And the 2R2 conductors don't allow it.
I also don't see a multibit chip like an Ad1665 or something like that anywhere in the circuit.
Apart from that, the multibit is a bit different from the Sony 1Bit Dac.

That's what they are more or less trying to make you understand.
This is information I only got from the brochure and it was more than understandable without having to be a nerd.
Everything else is pulled out by the hair.
It would be nice if you could also accept what the people are trying to tell you.
At the moment you're behaving like a stubborn donkey and that doesn't go down well.
To put it in a nice and friendly way.

 

[Davidv100]

Thank you for the kind words, that's nice of you.

Hi Deleeh,
As I said, I am a noob here, so I might say dumb things from time to time.
Sorry about that. This nuisance will hopefully be decreasing steadily.

Congratulations for your impressive audio gear.
Thank you.
Have a nice Sunday, all of you.


ps (humble contribution) : When mentioning the audio quality per input connection, you say LAN is not specified. But I read on the picture : USB, IIS, LAN. Or am I misunderstanding something ?

 

[labeelen]

@sajunky

Where do you get your information?
Is it possible that you are confusing the R26 with another Dac?

There is no multibit in the R26 according to Gustard, even the brochure doesn't mention it.

The 1 bit Dac refers to Usb and I2S as it seems.
Lan is not mentioned at all.
However, only the last picture below mentions that a 1-bit conversion takes place.
That is also the only information about it.
There is no mention of multibit.
And other outputs are only supported up to 64 DSD.



And it looks like there are only 2 ranges
1 bit and R2R conductors, technically speaking, these are 2 areas where each channel can be processed.
Ergo, you can only select between "1 Bit1 and "R2R", which will probably be the DSD ON/OFF function.
Correct me if I'm wrong about the last sentence.


It's true that it's a Sony 1-bit Dac, but you can't make a multibit out of a 1-bit Dac if there's nothing there.
And the 2R2 conductors don't allow it.
I also don't see a multibit chip like an Ad1665 or something like that anywhere in the circuit.
Apart from that, the multibit is a bit different from the Sony 1Bit Dac.


That's what they are more or less trying to make you understand.
This is information I only got from the brochure and it was more than understandable without having to be a nerd.
Everything else is pulled out by the hair.
It would be nice if you could also accept what the people are trying to tell you.
At the moment you're behaving like a stubborn donkey and that doesn't go down well.
To put it in a nice and friendly way.

Agree, very well explained.
For those looking for the ‘1 Bit DSD DAC’ section on your PCB … in most on-line pictures you don’t see it because the ‘R-2R ladder circuit’ is on a separate PCB that is stacked on top. (It communicates with the main PCB via the white connector)

 

[Davidv100]

Not relevant
Self-deleted

 

[sajunky]

Dear THUB,

As it is you who actually set the whole world on fire here , have you now been feeding your R26 with PCM files as you first intended to do, but this time with DSD OFF ?

If I understand correctly, this would be the first time your R26 would actually use the R2R ladder, even after 200 hours of burn-in of the remaining of your R26.

With DSD OFF, is the sound now more up to your expectations ?
This would be a very valuable insight.

Don't blame a messenger, it came with a good intention. Though is interesting that HQPlayer users tend to influence users on some threads while quickly disappear from the other. In all cases HQPlayer is an universal cure for some hardware inefficiencies, it is a clue.

 

[WolfP]

In your experience, which aspects of the sound improve the most after a long break-in?

 

[Davidv100]

Don't blame a messenger, it came with a good intention. Though is interesting that HQPlayer users tend to influence users on some threads while quickly disappear from the other. In all cases HQPlayer is an universal cure for some hardware inefficiencies, it is a clue.

Hmm… possible misunderstanding here.
I was not being cynical at all.
I warmly thanked THUB since the first post about this.
Indeed, his questions are exactly similar to the ones I also have.
Therefore, I am super thankful to THUB to have launched this.

My last question to THUB is very much sincere, as I also want to be using PCM thru the R2R ladder as he is intending to. And now we know DSD=OFF in needed to be sure of the right route taken by the data for this use case.
(But I have no R26 yet).

 

[Davidv100]

Hmm… possible misunderstanding here.
I was not being cynical at all.
I warmly thanked THUB since the first post about this.
Indeed, his questions are exactly similar to the ones I also have.
Therefore, I am super thankful to THUB to have launched this.

My last question to THUB is very much sincere, as I also want to be using PCM thru the R2R ladder as he is intending to. And now we know DSD=OFF in needed to be sure of the right route taken by the data for this use case.
(But I have no R26 yet).

Sajunky, I saw your “Like”. Thanks
I am glad this tiny misunderstanding is cleared.
Have a nice Sunday.

 

[Dandoudou]

Hmm… possible misunderstanding here.
I was not being cynical at all.
I warmly thanked THUB since the first post about this.
Indeed, his questions are exactly similar to the ones I also have.
Therefore, I am super thankful to THUB to have launched this.

My last question to THUB is very much sincere, as I also want to be using PCM thru the R2R ladder as he is intending to. And now we know DSD=OFF in needed to be sure of the right route taken by the data for this use case.
(But I have no R26 yet).

You don't need to set DSD Direct off to use PCM with the R2R ladder.
This DAC does not convert PCM to DSD. As long as you stream PCM to it, it will always convert it with the ladders.

 

[Davidv100]

You don't need to set DSD Direct off to use PCM with the R2R ladder.
This DAC does not convert PCM to DSD. As long as you stream PCM to it, it will always convert it with the ladders.

Yes indeed Dandoudou.
you are right here obviously (and I am wrong).
The user manual is clear about this specific point.
I stand corrected.

This also totally invalidates my question to THUB.
So… Please discard my question to THUB.
I am now considering removing it since it ads unnecessary confusion.

Thank you for having me corrected (Merci !)