Gustard DAC-A26 - AK4499EX DAC :: Impressions Thread
Feb 17, 2023 at 6:42 PM Post #436 of 1,056
I think the first thing that manufacturers do when they decide to bring a product to market is set a target price point that consumers will be welling to pay. From that point on every decision will be a compromise in one way or another. They must keep their costs at a level that will allow them and their distributors to make a profit. The best products (and companies) will fail if there is not enough profit. OPPO comes to mind. It seems at the $1,500 or so price point dac they're doing as good of a job (or better) as anybody. I like the idea of keeping the price down and letting us decide if and when we want to add a DDC or clock. With technology changing so fast I like the idea I can change one of the components, dac, DDC or clock at the most cost effective time or even buying "pre-loved" as we have been saying. Also I'll be giving my opinions before long of with and without using an external clock. I've been doing all my listening in my stereo room and there are so many variables. So I want to do some extended listening sessions with headphones. Initial findings: Consensus has been to use the sine wave output from the C18 into the U18. By all means at least try the square wave output. At least in my case the difference is astonishing. So much more detail is coming at me that I actually have changed the tow in of my speakers to angle them a bit wider from my listening location. So much more of the sound of live instruments to me. Some may not like the difference in the sound but I can tell you that I do. Also please try the low-distortion filter setting when you try the square wave. You can always go back but I'm not sure you'll want to
 
Feb 17, 2023 at 7:27 PM Post #437 of 1,056
Not sure I understand your set up. I don't think the Mac Studio or the A26 has a fiber port? Assuming your router has 1 fiber port, you'd simply run 1 fiber box between the router and the A26 with that fiber box offering a conversion back to rj45 so you can feed an ethernet cable into the LAN socket of the A26.
Sorry for oversimplifying my setup about Mac Studio. You are correct there is no fiber input option for Macs, I was just going to connect the fiber cable from to a fiber switch located next to router, and then have a very short shielded and foiled twisted CAT7 or CAT8 cable to Mac Studio to minimize interference.

Another option, would be to place the LHY switch i mentioned in place of the fiber box. You'd have the benefit of running fiber from router to switch, and an ethernet cable and a bnc cable into the lan / clock inputs of the A26. You would also have the option of running an ethernet from the Fiber fed switch to your mac if you chose.
Yes this is a much more elegant solution. But as my Roon Server is located in a different room from my A26, I think it's important to use the highest quality SFTP CAT8 cable too even when using the LHY Switch.

Personally, i prefer the etherregan solution if you are connecting multiple devices, as you can connect a few devices into the 'a side' and have isolation / moat before sending the output signal through the 'b side' (the dac).
Etherregan is half of the price and its isolation/moat feature sounds good. Even with LHY clock, it's only $1139 combined instead of $1349 of SW-10 alone. But it's hard to beat the integrated SW-10 approach with more ports for other devices. I just hope SW-10 has some kind of 'isolation' function built-in between all the ethernet ports.

Thanks for sharing the availability of these options for my future A26!
 
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Feb 17, 2023 at 10:11 PM Post #438 of 1,056
In the same way, "GoldenSound" says that Holo May/Spring are so good natively that they do not need an external clock.
Except that I and a few users have had better performance with spdif and pll off than having it on, this showing the internal clock is not that great. So much so in fact that my zen one sig sounds better than the Holo may in any mode, including HQplayer 1.5mhz


In terms of Holo claiming you don't need or wouldn't benefit from an external clock, with respect that's the standard line of almost every DAC manufacturer. And it's reasonable enough and true enough until it isn't.
Correct
 
Feb 18, 2023 at 1:38 AM Post #439 of 1,056
Except that I and a few users have had better performance with spdif and pll off than having it on, this showing the internal clock is not that great. So much so in fact that my zen one sig sounds better than the Holo may in any mode, including HQplayer 1.5mhz



Correct
Hi 801evan,

Are you saying iFi zen signature DAC is same league as Holo May Kte?
 
Feb 18, 2023 at 2:40 AM Post #441 of 1,056
N
@David


Ok - I can only comment for the r26 mostly not the a26 but hopefully this helps:

  • the r26/a26 already has a good clock and an excellent clock synthesiser. All reports on the r26 are positive Sq wise, including those where they have opened up the box and inspected the hardware which should be enough to prove that it's a good dac as it is out of the box. Initial reports on A26 are similar.
  • There are different conflicting messages on external 10mhz clocks. Goldensound, as one example, has some good reading on this, and doesn't think the trend towards external 10mhz clocks is great, but does think that master clocks can be beneficial. His measurements with the gear he tested saw some increased levels of noise / jitter with certain clocks. So there may be a tradeoff of increased accuracy for some increased jitter. If noise / jitter on your system is already excellently managed, maybe this is not a big deal, but there is still a trade-off. Others disagree on this topic. So the information set is a bit muddy.
  • Others, including myself, have added the clock and claim there are benefits. For me, my benefits were small, and if I were listing out the tweaks I have done on my R26, this update would be towards the bottom of the list - adding just a few percent to soundstage and clarity / smoothness. The FMC tweak, as just one example, is a much bigger bang for buck tweak (which may be down to my house and my specific network). i have actually pulled out all my tweaks, and tested them 1 to 1 and cumulatively so am confident on that statement (for my system - not for others). That said, the caveat to my assessment is that I am testing with a modest system which you can see in my sig. Maybe the benefits of a clock are limited in my system. However, in either case, I am delighted and astounded frankly by what this system, as a whole, is producing, and am happy with the clock purchase. However, it's bang for buck performance is not as good as other things i have done.
  • If you check out the L26 audiolab measurements for the R26, you'll see that FFT measurements have some side lobes which should be inaudible but can be cleaned up by a better clock. There is also some skeptisicm (as there generally is on this site) by that author that maybe the FFT performance is deliberate in order to sell the clock gustard also sells. Now the author offers no evidence for that. we don't know whether Gustards FFT performance here was a cost limitation, a design limitation, or something else. But this website clearly states that 'measurement wise ' (noting that this may or may not translate into audible results) - a better clock could be added to the r26
  • If i was doing this again, i would skip the LHY Ock 1 clock, and i would go straight to the Lhy SW10 - getting a better clock and a FMC / Switch all in one, out of my router before the gustard, i think would be a better bang for buck investment than going for the cheaper LHY ock 1 clock. i think this would be a top notch tweak but I am only appraising this by the specs - i have not purchased it and it is a v expensive tweak but combines 2-3 pieces of functionality into one good unit.
  • In either case - know that you are getting a fantastic dac (in the R26 case anyway - i cannot directly attest yet for the a26) for the pricepoint. The clock in my view is an optional add on, with gains to be had, but more like adding your favourite topping to your favourite ice cream. If you want to improve the potential of your dac, i personal think there are other things to focus on first (if you haven't already done so) such as good isolation on your speakers and equipment, room acoustics / treatments / room correction, great networking or ddcs depending on your dac input choice, good power management and cabling, and then clocks.

Others will have different views to mine, which is great, and i think goes to show that the benefit of different tweaks / add ons are v much system dependant.
Quality post!

I agree with most everything here apart from my weighting of the bang for buck impact of the OCK-1, which I’d rate a bit higher in my system. System synergy/differences, unit to unit variation, who knows. For me the unique thing it adds is greater soundstage depth, which no other tweaks have really touched, along with other improvements. To be fair I haven’t tried FMCs yet. Though as of yesterday I can HIGHLY recommend Quartz Acoustic grounding boxes with Gustard DACs, well the R26 anyway ( noting there’s a few happy users with X26 Pros and A26s too), which I’m ranking close to external clock bang for buck/impact, maybe more even, though the effects are synergistic / cumulative.
 
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Feb 18, 2023 at 2:02 PM Post #442 of 1,056
To @HFFan
For additional information about A26 and clocks, there are coincidentally plenty of discussions about the subject in the last 3 pages of the R26 thread. Globally, even if you are shopping for A26, the R26 thread brings some complementary information, as A26/R26 share many things in common obviously.
 
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Feb 18, 2023 at 4:09 PM Post #443 of 1,056
Wait, what did I miss?

There is talk about how people should add an external clock to it or that it’s own clock isn’t good?

See?
this is what happens when fools like at ASR post measurements in a completely un-scientific manner and the science becomes dogma and fantasy.
Now we are all looking at graphs with strange wiggly lines and spikes etc…….without fully understanding them.

did someone spot out a couple likes in jitter below -140db or something?
or the A26 didn’t beat the SINAD barrier ?

Im NOT trying to be a wise a$$ here, because I have fallen into this trap myself. All these graphs. Ohh there is a couple of lines above -120db! Oh no!

You can’t even trust a single measurement ASR does unfortunately because he doesn’t publish his full report in his Analyzer and it’s settings. Neither does he keep his testing methodology the same all the time.
You could even do a scientific paper on if ASR follows a good scientific methodology.

As Amit says , For this reason I would NOT RECOMMEND ASR as a site for scientific measurements.

lol


just look at the measurements to see if there is something substantially wrong with it.
and then have a listen and see if you like it.

Topping has amazing measurements , ( well they use only a specific set of them) because they throw in a ton of negative feedback , which makes their stuff sound blah lifeless.
 
Feb 18, 2023 at 4:12 PM Post #444 of 1,056
And just for the record I don’t trust LAB26 or that wolf guys measurements either.

This is all about business and money. I have NO clue who is that behind the computer doing the measurements and what their motive is.

Dont be naive. Money is involved. This is a business and the internet IS the new marketing channel.

there are influencers everywhere.

im not saying it’s all evil. No of course not.
just don’t be naive and have your eyes open.
 
Feb 18, 2023 at 4:17 PM Post #445 of 1,056
It exceeds it. I did put the zen one sig after a line Conditioner. Tho I did the same with the May as well. Zen one sig was with an aune streamer playing back MQA since PCs are noisy as

It exceeds it. I did put the zen one sig after a line Conditioner. Tho I did the same with the May as well. Zen one sig was with an aune streamer playing back MQA since PCs are noisy.
Thank you 801evan! The Holo May expertise is 3D imaging and soundstaging space and Zen DAC can equal and exceed that is amazing! 😊🙏
 
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Feb 18, 2023 at 6:11 PM Post #446 of 1,056
And just for the record I don’t trust LAB26 or that wolf guys measurements either.

This is all about business and money. I have NO clue who is that behind the computer doing the measurements and what their motive is.

Dont be naive. Money is involved. This is a business and the internet IS the new marketing channel.

there are influencers everywhere.

im not saying it’s all evil. No of course not.
just don’t be naive and have your eyes open.
It's about the money all right. I grew up riding and occasionally racing dirt bikes. Gospel then was whatever Dirt Bike or Motocross Action magazine said. Many times what they said would be different than what we would observe ourselves. Then I realized there's a 3 or 4 page fold-out advertisement in the middle of the magazine of the same brand they just gave glowing reviews about. For that matter look at The Absolute Sound or Stereophile magazines in this hobby. Often a product gets a glowing review and you flip one or two pages and there's one or two full page ads for the same product
 
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Feb 18, 2023 at 6:33 PM Post #447 of 1,056
It's about the money all right. I grew up riding and occasionally racing dirt bikes. Gospel then was whatever Dirt Bike or Motocross Action magazine said. Many times what they said would be different than what we would observe ourselves. Then I realized there's a 3 or 4 page fold-out advertisement in the middle of the magazine of the same brand they just gave glowing reviews about. For that matter look at The Absolute Sound or Stereophile magazines in this hobby. Often a product gets a glowing review and you flip one or two pages and there's one or two full page ads for the same product
Exactly

I am 53 so I remember those days.
and yes it’s exactly the same now. Different medium.
 
Feb 18, 2023 at 7:01 PM Post #448 of 1,056
It exceeds it. I did put the zen one sig after a line Conditioner. Tho I did the same with the May as well. Zen one sig was with an aune streamer playing back MQA since PCs are noisy.

You're smoking crack if you think anything iFi makes is comparable to May KTE.
 
Feb 18, 2023 at 8:16 PM Post #450 of 1,056
You're smoking crack if you think anything iFi makes is comparable to May KTE.
From what I read and seen I tend to believe 801evan. I saw video test between Hi Fi Rose ESS DAC vs May KTE using a Michael Jackson song and they sounded the same. Other people online with $2k headphones couldn't find a huge difference or no difference between May and a $600 DAC. May Kte is not worth $6k! It's mostly profit and paying for that fancy casing. But if you have the money to spend and prefer two heavy shiny boxes by all means. But if you tout May having some sonic superiority please prove to us!
 

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