[MD1032]

Excellent thread. Not enough of these around. Perhaps you could expand to include more expensive options?

 

[facelvega]

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Originally Posted by alleyezon_d /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another DAC option would be the MSB Link DAC III which is on sale now for 50% from MSB.

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Originally Posted by PascalT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good idea.. maybe you could include that for 30 bucks more or so you can upgrade to the Little Dot MKIII...

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Originally Posted by MD1032 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps you could expand to include more expensive options?

Maybe there's even more demand for a thread showing the current possibilities at the $600 sweet spot, but that's not what I'm trying to do here. I'm quite sure that paying $250-350 per component lands you in some very solid and respectable territory including the options you've have mentioned, but for this thread I'm sticking with the hard limit.

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Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the E-MU qualifies, would the Edirol UA-25 qualify as well? Or maybe the UA-5 if battery-powered items don't qualify somehow... I think it's cool to have a rugged source with a decent headamp that runs on one's laptop battery but I guess that's just me.

You make a good point, and I'm mulling it over. The fact is that I'm very skeptical of pro equipment in general, and was already hesitant about including the presonus and e-mu. If I had the means to test contenders myself, I would be happier to open up consideration to certain pro units that I knew I could stand by.

How about this, I'll do one extra entry for various other pro dacs, somewhat like the various other DIY amps entry? I'll leave the e-mu and presonus as separate entries because for whatever reason they are more common and popular at head-fi.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif ........The fact is that I'm very skeptical of pro equipment in general, and was already hesitant about including the presonus and e-mu. If I had the means to test contenders myself, I would be happier to open up consideration to certain pro units that I knew I could stand by.

I'm curious.......why are you skeptical of "pro equipment"?

Where does one draw the line, then? Is the Benchmark DAC-1 with USB "pro", "prosumer", or consumer audio? Likewise, the Apogee Mini-DAC or other units from Apogee, the Lavry, etc.?

 

[HFat]

Similarly, I'm a bit wary of the use of popularity as a criteria... especially when it comes to sound cards because the newest toys are consistently much more popular.

EDIT: there's something special about the E-MU though... it gets called a USB DAC. I guess that's because it was released after boutique USB DACs became popular.

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

IMO the LDII++ is by far the best value for the money, has good warranty and given its production life is proven to be a stable design (as in reliability). The tube rolling options are well explored and there is a huge community of active head-fiers to answer any questions about the LDII++ should you have any.

 

[gz76]

There's also the KECES USB DAC to consider. $175 + shipping (varies depending on location).

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm curious.......why are you skeptical of "pro equipment"? Where does one draw the line, then? Is the Benchmark DAC-1 with USB "pro", "prosumer", or consumer audio? Likewise, the Apogee Mini-DAC or other units from Apogee, the Lavry, etc.?

I'm just skeptical because pro equipment isn't designed for audiophile listening, and often uses cheap dac chips, opamps, capacitors, and so on-- though there are exceptions. Also, I've noticed that often the people who give good reviews to these components don't have much to compare them to. There are also good reasons to doubt other kinds of equipment, DIY boutique cap crazes for instance, but at least the DIY guys have often tried many different amps.

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Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif Similarly, I'm a bit wary of the use of popularity as a criteria... especially when it comes to sound cards because the newest toys are consistently much more popular.

I only accept popularity as a measure in terms of what I just wrote above-- something like an 0404 usb has been reviewed in the audio press and on this site a number of times. This soothes my skepticism if not removing it.

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Originally Posted by gz76 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's also the KECES USB DAC to consider. $175 + shipping (varies depending on location).

No dice, the first KECES usb is a fancy implementation of a usb-receiver dac without a proper chip behind it and thus doesn't meet my admittedly partially arbitrary list requirements. The KECES DA-131 does have such a chip, but is way above the price cap.

 

[gz76]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif No dice, the first KECES usb is a fancy implementation of a usb-receiver dac without a proper chip behind it and thus doesn't meet my admittedly partially arbitrary list requirements. The KECES DA-131 does have such a chip, but is way above the price cap.

Fair enough - it's your list!

 

[facelvega]

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Originally Posted by gz76 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fair enough - it's your list!

In my dreams, the gents from Keces read this thread and blow us away with a new $200 USB version of their 131. If they do I promise to buy one.

 

[Maniac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif No dice, the first KECES usb is a fancy implementation of a usb-receiver dac without a proper chip behind it and thus doesn't meet my admittedly partially arbitrary list requirements. The KECES DA-131 does have such a chip, but is way above the price cap.

I'm saying the way to qualify each DAC is right or wrong, but when done properly, this little puppy have a lot more performance than even I had expected at first.

Getting that chip properly supported is no easy task either. IMHO a chip, two chip, 5 chips, whichever way it is done, each way have its own advantage. For example, PCM2702 with the built-in receiver, one can arguably say that it have the shortest signal path for digital signal to travel to the DAC.

Anyways, if anyone got PCM2702 kit on their hand, just any kit from anyone. Give it some well regulated power, high quality components, and most importantly, passive component that is directly associated with PCM2702 is on shortest possible trace. You will hear some major difference.

 

[Maniac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my dreams, the gents from Keces read this thread and blow us away with a new $200 USB version of their 131. If they do I promise to buy one.

Well, that dream will come partly true... Cuz I do read it, and the owner of KECES (Koping) also occasionally read it.

We do have some other DACs up our sleeves, they are going to be loaded with more and more of the tricks that we had in our sleeve for a while.

However, it will cost more due to the fact that those additional features inflicts additional cost, but don't brush off the USB DAC just yet.

A Japanese web page showed some of the mod that can be done to it, and apparently he is quite impressed by the result.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, that dream will come partly true... Cuz I do read it, and the owner of KECES (Koping) also occasionally read it. We do have some other DACs up our sleeves, they are going to be loaded with more and more of the tricks that we had in our sleeve for a while. However, it will cost more due to the fact that those additional features inflicts additional cost, but don't brush off the USB DAC just yet. A Japanese web page showed some of the mod that can be done to it, and apparently he is quite impressed by the result.

Ah, yes, I think you guys are definitely making a strong show at the sweet spot of ca. $300-400, where so much of the action is now. If the response to this thread is any indication, it's also where the market is turning-- but I'm sure you guys know more about that than I do.

 

[Cyarron]

I don't know if this is exactly what you were looking for but in my experience the amp has always made a more noticeable difference. Because of this, I would suggest that for around a 400 dollar budget you could get a Heed Canamp for 350 from blackbird (with proof of headfi membership) and a while ago there were some entech number cruncher 203.2 DACs on ebay for around 30-50 dollars. I haven't heard the entech myself and I don't know if they are still available for that cheap but I have heard lots of good things.

 

[facelvega]

I've seen the entechs selling for closer to $100 and getting rarer by the second. I've been leery of listing any vintage gear on the dac side, but maybe there are enough entechs out there to make it viable. However, point taken that the amp is probably the more key component, I fully agree. Nevertheless, I think the source problem is more widespread on head-fi, with many more having good amps than sources, and that $200 gets a foot in the door of really good sound on the dac front. Certainly a $200/$200 system leaves the amp as the next sensible upgrade, but at least leaves one working from a solid base.

 

[bluebeard]

Hi facelvega,

you asked about the sound of my work-fi setup of Stax SR001 - Super Pro Dac - Sony dne10 pcdp just before the Great Head-Fi Crash of '07.

In essence, I rank it generally higher than my previous Headroom microstack w/either B&O A8, Ety ER6 or Senn Hd-25-1. This it must be said is primarily due to the phones which I believe are significantly better than the others in terms of musicality,timbre and dynamics. I'd say the Stax is better than the headroom micro amp, but the Super Pro Dac is not quite as good as the headroom micro dac - a match in dynamics, but not quite the definition or lows, the Super Pro is however not as warm as the micro dac (a plus in my eyes!)

Whilst I'm currently run both the DAc and the Stax off wall-warts, I'm looking at moving to battery power for the Dac to remove a slight hum which does intrude on softer music eg Talk Talk, Sufjan Stevens. I suspect that the mains in my building may be primarily to blame for this.

All in all I don't see any need to change my work-fi for some while...(famous last words!)

regards,

Giles