Guide - compressed, uncompressed (and HD): What to "look for" when comparing various formats
Nov 27, 2011 at 2:21 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 10

Edoardo

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(EDIT) DISCLAIMER: this is just a listening guide, not a programming, nor an engineering nor a harmony lesson. I tried to keep the "scientific" part as brief as possible, mainly avoiding it, with the purpose of explaining everything in very poor words, just to make the reasons of some hopefully useful tips to be easily understandable to everyone.
 
 
I've always been kind of surprised by the number of people claiming that there is no audible difference between playing Mp3 files or CDs.
 
Many of them stated that you would have to use the "lastest" Mp3 algorithms or the like.
So I thought... Maybe it's just me, my Mp3 copies sound crappy because I can't find a software with the latest algorithms...
 
Well, yesterday I attended a test that encouraged me to write - finally - this.
 
I'd like to clear out why some people can say that there is no remarkable difference between compressed and uncompressed music, why they are also right, and also why HD music is still such a niche.
 
Let's start.
 
 
1. Where and how compression takes place
 
It's all about loudness, or else, about compressing the size of the file by compressing the dynamic range of the audio tracks.
Any algorithm "selects" the highest-volumed signals, and cuts off the lower ones. 
So you have saved space on your hard disk, but you have a copy that contains only the volume peaks of the original, and that is dynamically much flatter than the original one.
 
 
 
2. What's the dynamic range
 
In poor words, we define dynamic range as the difference between the lowest-volumed and the highest-volumed audible signals recorded on a track.
 
Compressed music (and here I could mean "compressed" in both senses) has a dynamic range of less than 5 dBs, against the tens of dBs of dynamics possible to record and playback.
 
 
3. Why this?
 
Money. That's half a joke.
Most people play music while commuting, or on their cars, which are noisy environments.
Also, music is played as background in bars, pubs, clubs, supermarkets and the like.
So... Nobody wants to stay at the volume knob all the time, or to risk a crash when the chorus or the main theme come.
 
These are the same reasons behind the so-called loudness war (a.k.a. loudness race). 
For those who haven't heard about it yet, we call "loudness war" the phenomenon for which the major labels have been producing recordings and masters with increasingly lower dynamic range, for those same reasons. 
But... These are also the reasons behind the success of the compressed files.
 
(Of course, one more reason was the 10-year-ago internet bandwith. Try to up and download a 600MB CD at 56k. Lighter music files were needed for online music stores to succeed. But this does not concern this thread, so let's just focus on the dynamic range thing.)
 
 
4.0 Why is having a high dynamic range so important?
 
Usually, when we think about the benefits of a high dynamic range, we think mostly about the recording of factors other than the mere instruments' sound, such as the reproduction of the soundstage or of environmental elements.
 
Of course, you cannot record nor reproduce wall reflections nor a fly buzz and something else playing out loud at the same time, without a dynamic range of the needed width.
But it's not just about that. I'm going to explain why having a pretty wide dynamic range is essential to the riproduction of the single musical instruments and to the listening of a composition as it was intended by its author.
 
 
4.1 Recording and playback'ing instruments
 
Every note produced by a musical instrument is composed of various, and theoretically infinite, harmonics.
Again in very poor words, the harmonics are the elements in which a sound can be divided, and of which a sound is composed.
When we play an "A" - which has a fundamental frequency of 440Hz - on a pitched musical instrument, we do not produce just a 440Hz sound wave, but a more or less complex sound composed also by a series of sound waves at 880 Hz, 1320Hz, 1760Hz, etc.
 
The distributions, decreases and volumes of the harmonics in playing a note, give every instrument or voice their peculiar timbres, or colors.
 
Let me borrow a pic from the internet, showing the frequency range of the fundamentals and of the harmonics which some musical some musical instruments are able to produce.
 

 
Don't be misleaded by the way the graph is drawn down here, though.
Any musical instrument produces harmonics at any height. What's colored lighter here are just those frequencies that the instruments do not reach as a fundamental frequency, but only through their harmonics.

 
Of course, harmonics play at increasingly lower volumes than their fundamentals. But yet, they are there. 
And it's them to give each instrument its peculiar sound, or timbre, or color if you prefer.
 
So... In conclusion, a certain dynamic range is required to playback any musical instrument decently, since a pretty wide dynamic range is required to get not only environmental sounds, but also the very instruments' sound!
 
 
4.2 Delivering the musical message
 
In commercial music, usually, even if you have more than one instrument playing at the same time, they all happen to be mixed at the same (relatively high) volume, so the problem within the fidelity of the recording falls in the previous analysis.
 
But once upon a time, before music identified itself in the discographic industry and before loudness became a must, musicians also exploited volume difference  between the instruments, or the playing volume of the whole band or orchestra, as a living part of the composition itself, as instrument, key or tonality choices are.
 
Of course, this exploitation is far more evident in orchestral music than in any other one.
Now, I really don't wanna beat dead horses like "which genre is the better", so please just take this statement as neutrally as I hope you will.
 
But that's a fact. The instruments' playing volume is clearly indicated by the good old great composers on their music sheets.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Now it would be half a commercial suicide for any rock band to do that. Instruments just play as loud as the others or don't play at all.
Musicians have their hands tied on that part.
 
Therefore, I'll conclude this part stating that a wide dynamic range is required not only to listen to some great compositions as they were meant to, by their own authors (Else, a fundamental part of the very composition is missing), but also to let the musician using one more tool to craft its work.
 
 
5. Where and what to look for
 
Given this introduction, I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't find any difference between an Mp3 compression of some commercial artist, poorly and/or loudly recorded. 
If the dynamics achievable by the CD standard are not exploited at all at the source, its Mp3 copy becomes not a lossy, but just a space-saving one.
 
So it's easier to spot the differences, if any, with unplugged/acoustic instruments, and within bands and orchestras.
Of course, well-recorded and without "loud" compression.
 
So... Testing anything, actually, it's just about listening to what's happening at the lower volumes.
 
What's there? Instruments playing in the background, their harmonics, environment reflections, the sound of those strings picked one or two seconds before that keep vibrating...
Mind that higher frequencies give our brains the direction from which the sound is coming, and therefore, the smaller or bigger richness of the harmonics can be "translated", by our brains or put into words as worse or better soundstage also.
 
But... Before testing, and before making any judgement on the quality of the various formats, mind the quality of the recording and the one of the instruments recorded there.
Spotting difference between various formats may be impossible within a dynamically poor track.
 
 
 
Hope I could help, feedbacks are welcome.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Nov 27, 2011 at 2:23 PM Post #2 of 10
Reserved, just in case
 
--- 
 
EDIT: must use this...
 
(written after Asr's #5 reply and after my #6 reply)
 
to avoid more misunderstandings,
 
 
In my mind, speaking about files codec
 
compressed = lossy
uncompressed = lossless
 
Maybe it's because in my mothertoungue we don't have the words "lossy" and "lossless", but after reading tons of materials I thought that in English you could use the words "lossy file" and "compressed file" as sinonyms as well.
Sorry for having not been clear enough on this.
 
So... Lossless files are just CD or PCM equivalents, and the bad stuff written up there does not concern them whatsoever..
 
 
And another thing on which I could have been more clear:
 
6. Compression and compression
 
one thing is a lossy codec conversion. Another thing is a mere dynamic compression.
 
Dynamic compression, through a digital or an analog compressor, does not necessarily imply loss of information.
What does it do? It boosts lower-volumed signals, and/or flattens the peaks. For instance, electric guitars dynamic compressors boost the harmonics to get a fatter sound.
 
Sometimes audio compression is used to fool audiophiles, in the sense that boosting a tinkle, or a drum or a slap, their harmonics and/or their duration can make the illusion of the recording to sound better. In fact, in blind tests most people find compressed stuff more pleasant, just because wow, they hear every little detail so well, even if they don't realize what they're hearing is unnatural.
 
Nowadays, majors' discographic producers abuse of dynamic compression both for putting at high volume those details you want to hear, so that you don't to have to play with the volume knob in the car, or to hide details.
Nowadays can happen that a singer may be recorded in LA, the guitarist in Nashville, and the audio tracks to be sent to NYC for adding sample drums, electronic sounds, etc and being mixed and mastered there.
So compression is needed to make the whole thing sound realistic.
 
But compression in amplifying or mixing, and compression as the effect of a codec conversion, are two different things.
 
 
 
 
Nov 29, 2011 at 1:41 PM Post #3 of 10
Thanks for that, interesting read. I had no idea of how any compression actually worked beyond "Reducing quality and making the files smaller". Could hear a difference comparing some MP3 to FLAC at times but other times I couldn't, and when I did hear the difference I could never pinpoint what it was beyond that it didn't.. sound right. Time to give it another listen and focus on dynamics.
 
Nov 29, 2011 at 7:48 PM Post #4 of 10
Great read, thanks for doing that.
 
This is a link to a catalog of popular albums showing their Dynamic Range. I think it's a useful addition to this thread.
 
http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/
 
Nov 29, 2011 at 8:19 PM Post #5 of 10
Quote:
1. Where and how compression takes place
 
It's all about loudness, or else, about compressing the size of the file by compressing the dynamic range of the audio tracks.
Any algorithm "selects" the highest-volumed signals, and cuts off the lower ones. 
So you have saved space on your hard disk, but you have a copy that contains only the volume peaks of the original, and that is dynamically much flatter than the original one.

 
I'm going to have to take issue with your first point there.
 
First, "It's all about loudness, or else, about compressing the size of the file by compressing the dynamic range of the audio tracks" implies that compression itself is bad, which it isn't. MP3 and FLAC are both compressed, but the difference between the two is that MP3 is lossy while FLAC is lossless. MP3 discards info; FLAC does not.
 
Second, there's a difference between file compression and dynamic range compression, which you didn't make note of and which makes your 1st point difficult to comprehend. If you're referring to MP3 when you say "Any algorithm "selects" the highest-volumed signals, and cuts off the lower ones", that's completely false - that is not how the MP3 compression algorithm works. MP3 throws out inaudible frequencies and re-samples the audio data - it doesn't truncate the audio data by amplitude.
 
Digital audio compressors, which is probably what you meant, don't truncate the audio data either. You clearly have no actual experience using a digital audio compressor because they don't just cut off the lowest or highest amplitudes - they "squish" the peaks and "boost" the valleys to minimize the dynamic range. Again, they don't truncate anything - as cutting out high or low volume signals would result in severe, highly audible data loss. Your wording implies that low-volume audio data is thrown out, which is clearly not the case in any compressed music. Low-volume audio data is typically boosted to sound louder.
 
Third, compressing the dynamic range does not equate to file compression. In fact, compressing the dynamic range alone will result in the file size not changing (let alone being reduced). Only a file compressor will have the effect of reducing file size, be it FLAC/ALAC (lossless) or MP3/WMA (lossy).
 
Fourth, the effect of dynamic range compression does not result in the audio data containing "only the volume peaks of the original". That is a completely misleading statement - the audio data will also still have some valleys, though any valleys would be minimal.
 
Nov 30, 2011 at 5:34 AM Post #6 of 10


Quote:
 
I'm going to have to take issue with your first point there.
 
First, "It's all about loudness, or else, about compressing the size of the file by compressing the dynamic range of the audio tracks" implies that compression itself is bad, which it isn't. MP3 and FLAC are both compressed, but the difference between the two is that MP3 is lossy while FLAC is lossless. MP3 discards info; FLAC does not.
 

 
Wait. Huge misunderstanding here!
 
In my mind,
 
compressed = lossy
uncompressed = lossless
 
Maybe it's because in my mothertoungue we don't have the words "lossy" and "lossless", but after reading tons of materials I thought that in English was the same.
Sorry for having not been clear enough.
 
 
 
Second, there's a difference between file compression and dynamic range compression, which you didn't make note of and which makes your 1st point difficult to comprehend. If you're referring to MP3 when you say "Any algorithm "selects" the highest-volumed signals, and cuts off the lower ones", that's completely false - that is not how the MP3 compression algorithm works. MP3 throws out inaudible frequencies and re-samples the audio data - it doesn't truncate the audio data by amplitude.
 

 
 
 
I meant any lossy algorithm of course.
 
lossless codecs, such as FLAC, ALAC, etc. are just a space-saving codecs, but are PCM equivalents. 
 
I am wondering  were you got this information about Mp3 compression, because mine are first-hand from a discographic producer and engineer, (a real one, the "bigger-than-a-basketball-stadium recording facility owner" type, not the "kid with a MacBook" type) and secondly, I'd like to ask you if Mp3 does not delete audible data,  how would we be able to distinguish?
If you have a dynamic range tester you can try it yourself.
 
by the way, few more sources that I found to agree with me (though my explanation was poorer, for the sake of the KISS rule)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_masking
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=241504
 
 
Digital audio compressors, which is probably what you meant, don't truncate the audio data either. You clearly have no actual experience using a digital audio compressor because they don't just cut off the lowest or highest amplitudes - they "squish" the peaks and "boost" the valleys to minimize the dynamic range. Again, they don't truncate anything - as cutting out high or low volume signals would result in severe, highly audible data loss. Your wording implies that low-volume audio data is thrown out, which is clearly not the case in any compressed music. Low-volume audio data is typically boosted to sound louder.
 
Third, compressing the dynamic range does not equate to file compression. In fact, compressing the dynamic range alone will result in the file size not changing (let alone being reduced). Only a file compressor will have the effect of reducing file size, be it FLAC/ALAC (lossless) or MP3/WMA (lossy).
 
Fourth, the effect of dynamic range compression does not result in the audio data containing "only the volume peaks of the original". That is a completely misleading statement - the audio data will also still have some valleys, though any valleys would be minimal.
 

 
No I didn't mean digital dynamic compressors, but you are right, dynamic compressors don't make data get lost, and compressing dynamic range does not imply file compression nor data loss.
But with lossy codecs, file compression implies dynamic compression, because that's, in poor words, how they work or how they imply . They called it psychoacoustics. 
 
By the way, I recognize I could have been more clear on this topic, so I've added a paragraph just about dynamic compression editing the reserved reply. :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Nov 30, 2011 at 5:50 AM Post #7 of 10


Quote:
Thanks for that, interesting read. I had no idea of how any compression actually worked beyond "Reducing quality and making the files smaller". Could hear a difference comparing some MP3 to FLAC at times but other times I couldn't, and when I did hear the difference I could never pinpoint what it was beyond that it didn't.. sound right. Time to give it another listen and focus on dynamics.

You are welcome!

Yeah, it's not that hard to test, especially with headphones. Listening to live music is always the best training though.
 
A tip: rise (carefully) the volume and see if the background disappears.
 
It happened to me a couple of weeks ago, to test the ONIX DAC 25A headphone amp. A music store responsible here was not familiar with headphone amps, and asked for my opinion to see whether the dealer screwed him about the headphone amp section or not.
 
He gave me a CD test of his, a homeburnt compilation. As I turned the knob clockwise, the same stuff I was listening to at low volumes rose, while... Nothing else happened in the background. Just no background. 
The same bass slaps or drum kicks shot higher in my face, the same "cut" voice, but nothing else. Just black silence below that. Such a crap. I invited him not to use that CD test anymore.
 
Ah, I apologize for having been not clear enough on that, but mind that compression through lossy codec conversion and simple dynamic compression are two very different things. 
I have edited the reserved reply about it, if you'd like to give it a read it may explain many other things.
 
Nov 30, 2011 at 7:27 PM Post #8 of 10
Eduardo, you just don't understand how lossy compression works at all.  You seem to have half understood the concept of masking, but then generalised way too far.
 
Yes, one of the techniques used by lossy compression is to remove sounds which would be masked by others: this includes quiet sounds at the same time as, or very shortly before or after (we're talking milliseconds here) a loud sound.  This has absolutely no effect on quiet and loud sounds separated by greater spaces of time, and has absolutely no effect on the dynamic range of the track as a whole.  Your statement that "Compressed music (and here I could mean "compressed" in both senses) has a dynamic range of less than 5 dBs, against the tens of dBs of dynamics possible to record and playback" applies only to music subjected to dynamic compression (loudness-war style), and has nothing to do with lossy compression per se.   If a CD track has a high dynamic range, lossy compression (at any reasonable bitrate) of the track will not change that.  Try making an MP3 or AAC version at 192 or 256 kbps of some classical, and see (or hear!) for yourself.
 
Nov 30, 2011 at 8:20 PM Post #9 of 10
Quote:
Wait. Huge misunderstanding here!
 
In my mind,
 
compressed = lossy
uncompressed = lossless
 
Maybe it's because in my mothertoungue we don't have the words "lossy" and "lossless", but after reading tons of materials I thought that in English was the same.
Sorry for having not been clear enough.
 
 
I meant any lossy algorithm of course.
 
lossless codecs, such as FLAC, ALAC, etc. are just a space-saving codecs, but are PCM equivalents. 
 
I am wondering  were you got this information about Mp3 compression, because mine are first-hand from a discographic producer and engineer, (a real one, the "bigger-than-a-basketball-stadium recording facility owner" type, not the "kid with a MacBook" type) and secondly, I'd like to ask you if Mp3 does not delete audible data,  how would we be able to distinguish?
If you have a dynamic range tester you can try it yourself.
 
by the way, few more sources that I found to agree with me (though my explanation was poorer, for the sake of the KISS rule)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_masking
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=241504
 
 
No I didn't mean digital dynamic compressors, but you are right, dynamic compressors don't make data get lost, and compressing dynamic range does not imply file compression nor data loss.
But with lossy codecs, file compression implies dynamic compression, because that's, in poor words, how they work or how they imply . They called it psychoacoustics. 



Technically the only thing that's "uncompressed" is the original PCM wave data, wherever it's from (i.e., ripped from a CD, downloaded, etc). On Windows PCs, this is stored in the WAV format (don't know about Apple computers). Anything other than WAV is compressed - whether FLAC (lossless), MP3 (lossy), etc.
 
It's technically incorrect to say that FLAC is a PCM equivalent, because it's compressed. It has to be decoded back to PCM in order to be played back. Also, FLAC is more than just space-saving - it's also taggable (for organization), while WAV is not.
 
My info on MP3 compression comes from first-hand experience with using it. I'd suggest that you gain first-hand experience with it too, instead of getting your info from other (potentially unreliable) sources. You can take any WAV file and create an MP3 from it with LAME. Try it, you can compare what happens to the audio data in the WAV versus the MP3 (you'll need to decode the MP3 back to WAV for some sound-editing programs to open an MP3). MP3 is configurable - you can tell the encoder (LAME) to throw out everything above 20kHz and below 20Hz, for example, as anything in those ranges is outside the scope of human hearing. You can also select and configure the bit-rate - the re-sampling rate, in other words. You can also clearly see what's audible in an MP3 file when you open it in a sound-editing program. You should really compare different MP3 bit-rates and visually see how they deviate from the original waveform - preferrably on an audio track with good mastering. You'll see that at increasingly lower bit-rates, MP3 looks less "detailed" than WAV.
 
The nice thing about various audio file codecs is that they can all be visually compared in addition to sonically compared - and with free programs like Audacity on the PC, anyone can do it too.
 
The post above mine said this and I'm going to repeat it: file compression is not the same thing as dynamic-range compression, and compressing a sound file with a codec like MP3 does not result in any loss of dynamic range. The only thing that gets audibly "lost" is sonic detail - increasingly as the bit-rate goes lower. A codec like MP3 decreases the sampling rate to save on file size at the expense of sound quality. WAV files are typically sampled at 1,411.2 kb/s, while MP3 files are typically compressed to an average of 192-256 kb/s. (MP3 will also usually discard frequencies outside human hearing range unless you opt to retain that info.)
 
Again, you can see and hear all of this for yourself using the right tools on your computer.
 
Dec 1, 2011 at 3:25 PM Post #10 of 10
 
Quote:
Technically the only thing that's "uncompressed" is the original PCM wave data, wherever it's from (i.e., ripped from a CD, downloaded, etc). On Windows PCs, this is stored in the WAV format (don't know about Apple computers). Anything other than WAV is compressed - whether FLAC (lossless), MP3 (lossy), etc.

Thanks for the vocabulary hints 
biggrin.gif

 
 
 
Quote:
It's technically incorrect to say that FLAC is a PCM equivalent, because it's compressed. It has to be decoded back to PCM in order to be played back. Also, FLAC is more than just space-saving - it's also taggable (for organization), while WAV is not.

Come on here! I'm focusing on the listening point of view of course...
(Meaning FLAC, WAV and straight PCM offer the same playback quality)

 
 

 
Quote:
The only thing that gets audibly "lost" is sonic detail - increasingly as the bit-rate goes lower.   

Come on! What if I gave a listening tip such as "listen to sonic details?" I would have looked pretty much like this guy I think
Thinking about it as "just dynamics" is much easier, isn't it? And it works perfectly in my experience.
 
 
 

Eduardo, you just don't understand how lossy compression works at all.  You seem to have half understood the concept of masking, but then generalised way too far.
 
 

 
(the following answers the quote but may be addressed to both of you)
The purpose of this guide could not be further from the will to show my knowledge nor my understanding of such computing or neurological issues.
 
I could have been much pickier, or formal, on each part of the guide, but I chose not to do so.
 
When I write "In poor words", I mean it. I am aware that things are not that simple, but I wanted to keep them the simplest I could, trying to avoid the technical part and/or and getting rid of it as soon as possible... KISS! 
wink_face.gif

Generalizing? Of course, and on purpose! I wrote this little guide trying to target the average listener, in order to give listening tips, not to explain programming criteria nor to teach acoustical engineering.  
 
I'm not surprised you guys find my (actually intended!) generalizations disturbing though, especially if that's your field of study. Sorry for that, but I hope you'll get my point. 

 
Funny, I've generalized so much on the other issues also, always trying to give the easiest definitions I could, I expected for instance the formal definition of dynamics to come from someone, but no one seem to be caring about electronics or physics, only IT ... :D
Thank you everyone for the feedbacks though, I'm glad you replied  :) 
beerchug.gif

 
This is the music section, not the scientific one 
wink_face.gif

 

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