[music_man]

i just do not understand why the lanrover did not make any improvement. on the one hand all that conversion seems bad. a lot of people said it was incredible and only a few said no difference or worse. well, i guess i am just one of the few. that is all i can think of. i was hoping it was a magic bulet. of course build it and they shall come. in fact they do not even build it. icron does. they slap their name on it. i was anticipating something amazing, but no. i am not sure why. the microrendu is in fact better but i do not wish to run roon. so it is just the aq jb and startech hub with no vbus and the js-2. that certainly is not bad i think. tbh, as i said the js-2 is doing all the heavy lifting. go figure.
 
got my answer. it is system dependent. ymmv. in systems that could use help with transmission it will make a big deal. ins systems with very solid usb transmission already the difference will be nill. however it will not degrade a signal. it transfers what it gets. likewise, if you dump garbage into it or on the other end you have a junk dac you will still have problems. it is not a miracle. it can tighten up systems that have issues. if you already are used to clean usb you are not going to hear much of if any difference.  already having super clean usb it made no audible difference to me. ymmv.

 

[music_man]

I saw there are a number of high end hubs sold just for this purpose. jcat,sotm,vaunix,regen,recovery etc. they are all just high quality hubs. the two hubs i mentioned are actually higher quality hubs for less money. i would recommend the second one i mentioned since you can cut vbus at the pc. or anywhere before the hub. the nicer one requires vbus to handshake the cmedia chip and i am not sure if the dac gets any of it from the pc then. i cannot figure out any way to test that. the second one uses a ti hub chip and ti voltage regulator,cirrus i think clock. or whatever i said before while it was open. it uses good diodes and regulators. in fact better than any of the audiophile solutions. these are industrial equipment and very cheap. the second one actually has galvanic isolation. it breaks the ground getting the ground from the psu. i highly recommend if anyone does this they use a good lps. i was just surprised as usual to see the price difference between industrial products and audiophile products. they are ripping us off. this is not new though. for instance a belkin gold usb cable is only slightly bested by the aq diamond and nothing else i know of. again, $10 vs. $1.000++. you can get a quiet input from usb for cheap. i would put a aq jb in front of this and you can break the vbus there. it does not seem to break the vbus on it's own but it does break the ground and use it from the psu. since this mets hospital grade. green dot is on the back. i think this, with the jb got it as quiet as i would need. just like my experience with the lanrover ymmv. ethernet should do away with any noise but i heard no difference over this. i guess this is just pretty good. just wanted to give this update after seeing a slew of audiophile hubs. thats all they are, hubs. albeit high quality ones but this is even higher quality imo. again, ymmv

 

[winders]

Don't forget the paragraphs! Too many is better than not enough!
 
According to "rb2013", using a Singxer F-1 with an iPurifier2 plugged into it after the Wyred4Sound Recover powered the  by an LPS is the best way to go. For most DACs, the best input to use is the SPDIF coax. AES is often better if it is present but many DACs don't have it.
 
I have a Singxer F-1 coming and I am going to start with that. It offers a reasonable amount of galvanic isolation on its own. It has quality clocks and puts out a very good SPDIF signal. Of course I will use a quality 1.5 meter coax cable. I don't need 1.5 meters, but that is supposed to be the magic minimum length to prevent reflection from being a problem.
 
I would like to have a box in place of the Wyred4Sound Recover and iPurifier2 that does full glavanic isolation and proper signal regeneration, reclocking, and rebalancing. Someday soon I hope!

 

[music_man]

his chain is so complex i do not even know what he has. so much for too much! i think this did a very nice job in my system with fidelizer. i am happy with it. my dac in current use has aes/ebu and bnc. however they are both in use by other hardware devices. not worth it to me to unplug one. this sounds good to me. impressive in fact. there is not much here in the chain. just the jb as vbus breaker and the hub. i am sure the singxer is better(well perhaps) but i just don't want to use it. i do have ethernet in but amazingly i thought this usb sounded better. if you want to break the ground these do it. cheap too. i would say the better one is better than a vaunix. same target audience. the thing is i cannot tell if it lets the vbus pass but it sounded very good too. i think this one sounds better without vbus present at all. could be in my mind though. if you are interested you should know they have all in one boxes that do what you wish for but they are $$$. i gather that is why you did not get it yet.
 
btw, i am glad you are not mad at me too. i do not know why rob got so mad. sure, in the end i baited him but he was being very mean to me. i explained i am very disabled. i do not type like that just to be an idiot. i think he had other beef with me but i don't even know why. almost everyone here is nice to me and accepting of my disability. i am just glad you are not mad too because you stayed here. i honestly mean no bad will to anyone. sometimes i say stupid stuff but if i am called on it i stop. i seriously only wish good things for everyone. well, almost everyone. not like death row inmates if they are rightfully accused lol.

 

[winders]

Bob is Bob. He gets easily riled up some times. He is passionate about this stuff. Overall that is a good thing! I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Bob came to the conclusion that you need some USB in the picture for the best sound. He tried eliminating USB altogether and did not like the result. I am not prepared to go to the lengths he is to get the "best" sound. But I am glad he is out there testing all kinds of crazy stuff. I think going with the Singxer F-1 is a reasonable step as it gets the USB input on the DAC out of the way and isolates the DAC form the crap on the USB bus. I am not talking about the voltage levels that represent 0 or 1 either. I'll see how it works out.
 
I was very impressed with the improvement in sound I got going from the Vali 2 to the Lyr 2. So I am pretty sure I will be upgrading to the Mjolnir 2 real soon now as I am told the improvement is as great especially if I go balanced the whole way. I will upgrade my DAC to the Gungnir Multibit at that time. Again, the Singxer F-1 should work quite well with the Gungnir Multibit DAC.

 

[music_man]

i know the singxer is a marvelous tool. what i did to him i guess was say he spent more on tweaks than he did on his dac. hey, to each his own. i would think no matter what you do with usb, a considerably better dac will make a much bigger improvement.i am telling you that since you are looking at upgrading anyways. to him it was a big insult but i did not mean it that way. i am saying if some cheap tweaks work good then great. at some point i would move to a better dac. i own a number of dacs and i don't mean to be a jerk at all but right now i am listening to the msb select dac loaded with mono powerbases.. perhaps something like this just does not need much before it. it does not use vbus anyways but i felt there was a difference cutting both the vbus and ground. with the dacs i have on hand i did not get a huge difference with usb over ethernet. you make sense though. that must be why going in with just ethernet did not sound better than usb.. on this dac i feel the usb sounds better. amazingly i feel the meridian 808 with a pof optical cable sounds much better than the pc any way you cut it. it uses a dvd drive and reads to memory with no oversampling. not only is it odd i preferred an optical cable but a pof one yet i guess. some people agree though.you have no electrical connection. pof can be better than glass if polished right. since glass has so many strands and does not focus the light right all the time. still, it is low end compared to aes/ebu to most people. i did not find that to be so. anyways, it just might be that dacs like this do not need much help getting their signal. going way down the line the codex saw more improvement with usb conditioning. even with that dac it was not night and day but i felt it was a nice bit better. i think some of the high end dacs may be immune to these issues but i am not entirely sure. it is still fun to play with. i do not think i will ever get to rob's chain though. it is quite frankly too complicated for me to even understand.

 

[sbgk]

tried to make it more readable
 
I have been testing this the last few hours and i feel the verdict is in.
I have used almost every usb audio tweak.
I had just tried the ps audio lanrover to no avail.
I was back to an audioquest jitterbug to a uptone regen, with js-2 lps. the uptone is really just a very good hub. better than the vaunix.
Now i discovered the startech ST7300U3M.
Oddly, if you cut the vbus it will not operate. what is special about this is it operates on 12 volts and a ti regulator steps it down to 5v. than another ti cascade regulator steps it down to the 3.3v per port.
I have a audioquest jitterbug in front of it. audio quest diamond cables. it is powered by the uptone js-2 at 12v. 12v is the key here to the clean data and power.
I measured 126db noise floor. the highest i have measured so far. lan rover was 116db and the regen was 119. i cannot use the microrendu because i am not using a compatible host program. namely jriver.
I found running this with fidelizer made no difference, so it is very clean. the background is dark black silent. the highs are much higher. more extended bass. better imaging and soundstage than anything i have heard yet.
If you saw this, it is built better than the vaunix. the internal components are the finest. best diodes,vishay resistors, rubycon caps. amazingly this can be had for $49 but usually about $52. solid modular billet aluminum chassis. comes with sorbathane strips to stick on for feet or a plate mount. the included smps is very high quality but not the jp-2.
I am very happy with this. sans microrendu this may be end game in this system.
I just do not understand why i cannot cut the vbus or it ceases to operate. it will run unpowered at low draw but has a relay that cuts vbus if a psu is present. i had asked about this earlier with no replies but took it apart and got my answer. it also has linear regulation inside so the js-2 may be redundant to some extent.
I have not tested the included ac brick. the js-2 is obviously better but if it makes a sound difference i do not know as of now. so perhaps without the js--2 you have $52 for the hub and $49 for the aq jb. however i have about $5,000 of diamond cables. if you do not want to spend that i can recommend cardas clear which is a fraction of the price and 90% of the diamonds sound. this might be the best usb chain yet and without the js-2 and diamonds it is very affordable. startech is known for their hidden audio jems. the gigabit usb etherrnet extender rex/lex is very good but i feel this is better and does measure better.
I am extremely impressed with this. i do not know how much of it is the js-2 and diamonds but they certainly contribute. i imagine you can get close for just the $100. i have tried ifi ipurifier with isub3.0 and w4s rur. they were not as good as this imo. on the other hand for just the $100 you don't have much to lose. as it is returnable anyways.
I plug 1 gigabyte usb sticks in the remaining slots which in this instance is the best way to play your audio, again imo. this has been studied though.
I feel this may be end game for usb at least. btw, the regen and rur are just very high quality hubs and this is higher quality than those. this is designed for industrial use.. you can be skeptical but as i said startech is known for their hidden jems that just happen to have audio applications.
I did not find the conversion to ethernet was better and back to usb. it seems something is lost. probably data in fact. even though it is gigabit vs. 480mbps it cannot support the full scale of usb 2.0 such as dsd 8x. which should tell you something right there. so i gather from those limitations there are others. as in sound. i would stick with one data format and not introduce conversions. even though others feel this sounds better.
I found others that did not feel the lanrover improved sound. if anything detracted from it. only microrendu is better but i am not using roon. this is because it is something different entirely. it is not conversion but a tiny computer all it's own.  i have tried it though. this is not meant to be a thread like "ultimate usb chain" as this is solely my opinion and i admit that. i just wanted to relay my experience.
I still do not know why i cannot cut vbus but rest assured it is disconnecting with the psu present anyways.
I just wished to share my findings, because to me at least they were very positive. the best i have heard thus far. of course this is just my opinion. ymmv as always

 

[music_man]

thank you. you could have split it into paragraphs if you wanted. i appreciate the help though. i got carried away there. i can certainly hit return. just shift takes two hands which i can barely do.

 

[music_man]

just in case anyone wants to try this. the first one, mentioned above has a lower noise floor. it is also built better, with better components. which would explain the lower noise floor. however i am weary that you cannot cut the +5v. startech told me it disconnects via a rectifier bridge when the psu is applied. now, i am not entirely sure about that. the other one i mentioned you most certainly can cut the +5v. so it may be quieter in that state. it really depends if it does in fact cut it. the first one is impressive. however the second one is less than 25 bucks. you know any hub with a type b connector is high quality. it is cmedia vs ti i guess. i think i prefer to know for sure the +5v is cut. I have not measured it in that manner yet. tbh, i can barely hold the probes and my alligator clips are too big. it is all good though. i just have a different methodology about this. remember though all these hubs came before psa slapped their name on an icron product. my feeling is the conversion will give you a sound, just not one i like. i want sharp,detailed and exacting. rb wants tubes and vinyl. completely different approaches. do not doubt that these items will affect your sound though. like it or not. if you just go with a good dedicated music server you can probably forget all this. the spinner and the aurender both sound better than the pc no matter what i seem to do with it. i doubt even a dedicated nuc would sound as good. it is still a pc. not dedicated music hardware. even though the aurender has a $10 smps. in some instances that will not matter, but the overall product will. for the price of any of this, and it is returnable i would merely suggest it.

 

[music_man]

my buddy put in a way better clock. i cannot solder anymore. what i miss most actually. i was an engineer.. anyways neither of us felt it made a big difference. probably is not going to on a good asynch dac. trust me if you want usb conditioning you do not need to spend $$$. other than that, i do highly recommend some sort of usb conditioning. you can plainly hear the difference with these and a aq jb. you are going to need one of these because they are the only ones afaik that have a b plug for input. unless you want to spend a lot. there is really no reason to go crazy with this imo. i know i have made my point and don't mean to hijack my thread. i was just mentioning we put in the clock.....and removed it.

 

[gregzDk]

Never had issues with short and good quality USB cables. Only when you really move up the tier you might consider stuff like Mutec and others.

 

[music_man]

pc's are full of noise. you don't want that going to your dac. trust me if you just use a hub and aq jb with vbus cut you should hear a nice difference. of course ymmv. i wouldn't bother with a $200 dac but i certainly would with good ones. plus you are sort of correct. you do not notice a difference in usb cables until you really go to the high end ones. in my case i am at the 5 meter limit as well. so i require good cables.

 

[sterling1]

I'm satisfied with the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD external sound card for USB to S/PDIF, S/PDIF to USB and analog to USB. It operates at 24/96, which is all my ears can handle. I can not discern any noise until volume is beyond reference level. In other words, I can listen to iTunes via USB to X-Fi HD to S/PDIF pre/pro input with a very silent background.

 

[feline]

I think these days you can only appreciate quality of the sound in reference to better sound. Many years ago when I heard my first mp3 out of my laptop I was astounded with the quality. Anyway to sterling1, I used to have  Sound Blaster X-Fi HD and only when I switched to an xmos DDC with LPS, I realised X-Fi was rubbish.
Also in my case icron ranger made a difference so did media converters.

 

[music_man]

feline, +1 +love your name. my favorite creature in the animal kingdom.
 
you do not know what you are missing while you are missing it. in that regard be happy though before you have to apologize to your wallet! it just goes up and up. better and better. it is not some audiophool marketing bs. a lot of it is real. even if you cannot quantify it with science.