[music_man]

i have been testing this the last few hours and i feel the verdict is in. i have used almost every usb audio tweak. i had just tried the ps audio lanrover to no avail. i was back to an audioquest jitterbug to a uptone regen, with js-2 lps. the uptone is really just a very good hub. better than the vaunix. now i discovered the startech ST7300U3M. oddly, if you cut the vbus it will not operate. what is special about this is it operates on 12 volts and a ti regulator steps it down to 5v. than another ti cascade regulator steps it down to the 3.3v per port. i have a audioquest jitterbug in front of it. audio quest diamond cables. it is powered by the uptone js-2 at 12v. 12v is the key here to the clean data and power. i measured 126db noise floor. the highest i have measured so far. lan rover was 116db and the regen was 119. i cannot use the microrendu because i am not using a compatible host program. namely jriver. i found running this with fidelizer made no difference, so it is very clean. the background is dark black silent. the highs are much higher. more extended bass. better imaging and soundstage than anything i have heard yet. if you saw this, it is built better than the vaunix. the internal components are the finest. best diodes,vishay resistors, rubycon caps. amazingly this can be had for $49 but usually about $52. solid modular billet aluminum chassis. comes with sorbathane strips to stick on for feet or a plate mount. the included smps is very high quality but not the jp-2. i am very happy with this. sans microrendu this may be end game in this system. i just do not understand why i cannot cut the vbus or it ceases to operate. it will run unpowered at low draw but has a relay that cuts vbus if a psu is present. i had asked about this earlier with no replies but took it apart and got my answer. it also has linear regulation inside so the js-2 may be redundant to some extent. i have not tested the included ac brick. the js-2 is obviously better but if it makes a sound difference i do not know as of now. so perhaps without the js--2 you have $52 for the hub and $49 for the aq jb. however i have about $5,000 of diamond cables. if you do not want to spend that i can recommend cardas clear which is a fraction of the price and 90% of the diamonds sound. this might be the best usb chain yet and without the js-2 and diamonds it is very affordable. startech is known for their hidden audio jems. the gigabit usb etherrnet extender rex/lex is very good but i feel this is better and does measure better. i am extremely impressed with this. i do not know how much of it is the js-2 and diamonds but they certainly contribute. i imagine you can get close for just the $100. i have tried ifi ipurifier with isub3.0 and w4s rur. they were not as good as this imo. on the other hand for just the $100 you don't have much to lose. as it is returnable anyways. i plug 1 gigabyte usb sticks in the remaining slots which in this instance is the best way to play your audio, again imo. this has been studied though. i feel this may be end game for usb at least. btw, the regen and rur are just very high quality hubs and this is higher quality than those. this is designed for industrial use.. you can be skeptical but as i said startech is known for their hidden jems that just happen to have audio applications. i did not find the conversion to ethernet was better and back to usb. it seems something is lost. probably data in fact. even though it is gigabit vs. 480mbps it cannot support the full scale of usb 2.0 such as dsd 8x. which should tell you something right there. so i gather from those limitations there are others. as in sound. i would stick with one data format and not introduce conversions. even though others feel this sounds better. i found others that did not feel the lanrover improved sound. if anything detracted from it. only microrendu is better but i am not using roon. this is because it is something different entirely. it is not conversion but a tiny computer all it's own.  i have tried it though. this is not meant to be a thread like "ultimate usb chain" as this is solely my opinion and i admit that. i just wanted to relay my experience. i still do not know why i cannot cut vbus but rest assured it is disconnecting with the psu present anyways. i just wished to share my findings, because to me at least they were very positive. the best i have heard thus far. of course this is just my opinion. ymmv as always

 

[winders]

Unreadable. I didn't even try.
 
How about using capitalization and paragraphs?

 

[music_man]

i have advanced parkinson disease. it is lucky i can type at all. i hope you can understand ones limitations. i know it looks like a mess. i am sorry. in my prime, trust me i did not tye this way. in fact i typed very high wpm with 99.5% accuracy. anyways i don't expect anyone to be teribly impressed with this chain. it worked in my system. wonders in fact. what works in one system very well not in another. so you didn't miss anything really. for me and my system it just happened to best almost everything. big ymmv. i was just playing around with every option there was. lo and behold this was the one that made a huge difference for me. i know i was sort of bragging about it too but it very well may not work for anyone else. i would say most systems are bettedr with regen,rur,microrendu or lanrover. i am being honest.

 

[winders]

I am sorry about the Parkinson's. That's rough. But, you can use the return key to get paragraphs. Text dumps are very difficult to read. Paragraphs will make it MUCH better even if you don't capitalize.

 

[music_man]

you are correct. that was too long for one paragraph. i do apologize for being stupid. yes, that was stupid. i tend to get carried away sometimes and for get to hit return. that is not a physical problem of any sort. the caps is just too hard to hit shaking like crazy. i can't actually type anymore. like hunt and peck now.
 
as far as the hub not working when i cut vbus i got my answer from tech support. this company really knows their stuff. he pulled up the schematic. the controller chip is powered by the cumputers vbus. which will also power the vbus on the ports if no psu is present. so it requires the computers vbus to power the hub chip regardless. however when the psu is attached it cuts the computers vbus from the ports and the psu takes over on a completely diferent vbus controller. since this is operating on 12 volts it is a completely different circuit. it steps it up/distributes to 3.3 volts per port x 7.  that is because this is a high power device. however the hub is the clock so that being controlled by the computers vbus is probably not good either. i will probably go back to the regen after all. unless you guys do not think vbus from the computer controlling the chip is an issue.

 

[motberg]

Thanks for posting this information, I think very interesting and hope some other folks give it a try.
If you do not mind, what are the USB cable lengths you are using from the computer to Startech and then to DAC ? 
Also if you have any information about the clock used in the Startech (it seems you could pretty easily just inject a cleaner 5v V-buss using your JS-2 into the Startech if helpful) - maybe even can physically upgrade the clock
Your JS-2 is an isolated power supply, so that may be a big factor. Perhaps the gains will be different using a more standard 12v LPS.
Please update us with your observations if you go back to the Regen.

 

[winders]

My current setup is a late 2016 MacBook Pro 15" maxed out to my Schiit Modi Multibit DAC using a decent USB cable from Schiit. Since the MacBook Pro has 4 USB-C ports I use an Apple USB-C to USB-A adapter. In the near future I will be getting an OWC Thunderbolt 3 dock. 
 
How good is the MacBook Pro's USB implementation? I don't notice any issues with the setup now. The OWC dock does have an optical S/PDIF port that I could use instead of USB. The data must travel from the MacBook Pro over a Thunderbolt 3 connection to the dock and then encoded into optical S/PDIF. Would this be better than using USB either off the MacBook Pro directly or off the dock?
 
Note that the Schiit Modi Multibit DAC supports up to 24/196 on all interfaces including the USB and S/PDIF optical interfaces.

 

[music_man]

winders, thunderbolt is better than usb. i love mac. it has the best technology but for the life of me i do not understand the os lol.
 
so, of course the startech is not nearly as good with the stock wallwart. tbh, the regen is also just a really good hub. the js-2 is doing all the magic. however the regen does have a much better than average clock chip. that is why this startech is good. it is les money than the regen but if you are going to invest in a lps anyways, be it js-2 or w4s whatever might as well get the regen. i did not find the lanrover to be better than either. however i found microrendu to be the best by far. i do not wish to run roon though. i hate the ui.
 
motberg, 1.5m uaq diamond in, 3.5m aq diamond out. it is the cyprus high performance clock. can't remember the part#. this is a very good hub. i would say comparable to the regen. it was built to run electronic test equipment/measurments not audio. same goal though. low noise and low jitter. this was a great bargain. i just try to help people that cannot afford whatever. i feel this was a dumb experiment thoough because it vastly improved with the js-2. so, so much for on the cheap. with the stock wallwart i measured 166db which is still good but not the 126db with the js-2. i have to say the js-2 is one heck of a dc psu. wish computer psu's were made like that. i have a corsair gold level psu in my pc but it is no js-2.
 
one thing about my pc, in the same room is fine. i am using a modine racing car radiator and it has like a 800mm fan that moves like 20rpm so it is not like i hear anything. if i really push the pc like linpack it will move up to 90 rpm. of course audio keeps it ar the 20 rpm. quite frankly i probably don't need a fan except to keep the water moving. if their is no air at all through the radiator the water will just sit in it.
 
so, honestly the regen is very slightly better with the ifi psu. with the js-2 it is a tossup. if you buy the js-2 might as well buy the regen. uptone is a nice company. the startech will perform slightly better than the regen with the js-2 but it is nitpicking. i found them to be better than the rur but i always use an aq jb too. i did not find the ipurifier to be better than the jb and i found the iusb3.0 not as good as the regen or this startech.
 
of course this is just my system. a big ymmv. if you want to be safe i would say get the regen. if you just cannot afford it the startech performed on par here.

 

[winders]

Why wouldn't I just skip USB altogether if I can and use optical S/PDIF?

 

[music_man]

unfortunately the model i have mentioned powers the usb hub controller chip off of vbus. it still performed very well. for maximum performance i would recommend to cut vbus at the computer. only if you know how! fear not though! startech  ST4202USB has the same great components on the pcb. it is also much less money. it is, however plastic vs. metal but that should not matter. this operates at 5v instead of the former at 12v. nice, since it leaves headroom for the lps. although the js-2 has no problem puting out 12v of course. so now i would recommend if you want to use this instead of the regen, get this one and cut vbus.
 
startech is very high quality industrial usb. others are using their rex/lex and swear by it. i had better luck without that conversion going on because i have high end equipment, dac etc. it will make more of a difference with a lower end dac, pc etc.

 

[music_man]

oh yeah, optical is way better than usb! that is imo but most engineers would tend to agree. i thought maybe you had a longer cable or something. i would not run optical more than 5 feet. this is toslink not the fiber att uses lol.

 

[winders]

I only need about 18" for the optical cable. What optical cable to buy?? I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars......

 

[music_man]

first let me rephrase that. optical is better because it has none of the issues of electrical connections. however the toslink standard was/is a very low grade implementation of optical technology. it is not a laser but an led. that being said, as long as you wil not go beyond redbook 16/44.1 it is best. you can push it to 24/192 but sound will degrade then. the electrical transmission formats came into play for much higher resolution. like 768/32 and 8x dsd. optical can do way more than electrical ever can but not as it is implemented in toslink. so if you will only play cd quality it has none of the electrical anomalies and wil not cost thousands to "clean up". they both have their problems. except very high end very new dacs that use ethernet. ethernet is one step down from industrial laser optical the phone co. uses to transmit hundreds of miles.
 
now, you want to get a glass or quartz fiber cable most likely to maximize the standard at hand. however that is a tossup too. the best poly fiber toslink cables are better than glass imo. a good glass cable is thousands of dollars. you can gogle search and find them for $20 but those are not nearly as good as a properly polished ploy cable. so i would recommend an audioquest cinnamon or way better yet the transparent audio high performance optolink. it lists for $100 for 3' but can be had for $75. honestly that may be the best cable period. audioquest is the only company that makes a $1,000+ cable in quartz. since the other companies already know a properly polished poly cable is very often better. i would highly recommend the transparent for under $100. 3' is their shortest but is actually best. too short and you get internal reflections. just google transparent audio. find a dealer or mail order. imo, it just might be better than the $1,000+ aq. which is the only other cable i would recommend. they did quyartz right and that costs $$$. the $20 glass will be easily outdone by the transparent. whatever you do, do not get one of those super low diameter plastic cables that are $5.
 
i now have the other startech hub. it is even beter without vbus. it has the same chips but you can cut vbus for even higher performance. with the js-2 i am measuring 131db. i think that is the limit of usb. i think doing usb over ethernet or ip is just a big waste of money. perhaps not though because what is really allowing this performance is the js-2. this particular one was about 16db lower than the regen. the regen is plenty good though. personally i would rather get the regen, js2,aq jb, and aq diamond cables than the ethernet extender. it made no improvement here but ymmv. the problem is that setup of wires and power is 6 grand. even if you need only 1 meter cables you are still looking at over 2 grand. so perhaps then ethernet would come into play. if your dac excepts ethernet directly than by all means use that connection. of course the diamond ethernet is big bucks too but not nearly as much as powering and cleaning the usb.
 
winders, i am sorry i did not use paragraphs the first time. i got carried away. the caps key is just really difficult for me. i am glad you understand. thank you for saying you were sorry i am ill. i don't do this just to be an idiot. i used to type very good. now i shake like a leaf in the wind. plus my kidneys are failed. i don't expect sympathy but i can tell you old age sucks. it is alright though i had a very good life.

 

[winders]

 
winders, i am sorry i did not use paragraphs the first time. i got carried away. the caps key is just really difficult for me. i am glad you understand. thank you for saying you were sorry i am ill. i don't do this just to be an idiot. i used to type very good. now i shake like a leaf in the wind. plus my kidneys are failed. i don't expect sympathy but i can tell you old age sucks. it is alright though i had a very good life.

 
No worries. I do feel for you. We are given a certain amount of time on this earth and we need to live life as best as we can. You knowing you have had a good life has to give you solace. But you don't have to like what is going on now. Keep living as best as you can! Happiness is a choice!
 
Here is a favorite quote of mine:
 
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives, but I rather believe that time is a companion
who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again."

Jean-Luc Picard

 

[music_man]

thank you very much for the encouraging words, winders. i am still very happy. the doctor said that is why i have not died because i have a will to live. i do the best i can with my limitations now. i do not get frustrated. i understand i can no longer solder and stuff. i am fine with that. i am not frustrated or disappointed. i just do the things that i can still. i do not regret that i got sick from old age. it is much worse when young people get sick. the typing often comes up but every single person so far has understood when i explained why. i never mean to upset other people or be a jerk either. i wouldn't do something like that on purpose. i can be happy i was always nice to other people too. unless you just saw the thread with that guy rob. the thing is the mod here said it was 100% him and not me. yeah, i did spite him a bit but he was not being nice. otherwise i have always been, and continue to be kind to people and animals. everything is okay though. you really don't have to feel bad for me. i wil rephrase: not only did i have many good years i am still happy. at least i can still play with audio. that has always been my main thing. i was a recording and sound engineer for over 40 years. when i was not working i listened to my own hi-fi. i still do. that is what i really like. luckily almost all audio connectors are big enough that with a little effort i can still connect them. listening is what i really enjoy though. everything is okay, really!