[thomas]

Quote:

Thomas, I respond to rash generalizations. I'm guessing you don't know and don't care about the configuration of the META42 you listened to, which makes your statement meaningless.

What i posted is my opinion, not "rash generalizations". Just because you have a different one does not make mine "meaningless"

I build my first amp based on the AD823 to El2001 before you were even a member here, and since then have tried virtually every configuration possible (in loop, outside loop, multiloop, AD823, AD8610, OPA132, OPA604, OPA627, AD825 BUF634, El2001, current source, virtual ground driver, many different component choices) and none of them sound good with my Grados. On the otherhand a simple and cheap DIY amp, the Szekere's mosfet amp clearly sounds superior for grados, AGAIN IN MY OPINION.

The META42 amp is a great portable amp for certain headphones (usually neutral or slightly dark headphones).
but i'm sick of its proponents jumping in every single amp discussion thread stating it is THE only amp for every single circumstance, every single headphone.

THis is my last post in this thread, it is supposed to be about the RA-1

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by thomas The META42 amp is a great portable amp for certain headphones (usually neutral or slightly dark headphones).

This is really the understatement of Head-Fi. So many people use one components tonal response to equalize the tonal response of another product that it becomes difficult to talk about straight performance. This is in my view where the term "synergy" so often comes from. If I had a modern Grado headphone, I would be seeking some way of taming the brightness too, whether it was via an equalizer or a slightly rolled off amp like the RKV. (I did like the RS-1 more on the RKV than on other more extended and neutral amps but they still weren't for me).

There's no "right way" to build a system, though. My philosophy is more in line with what people call "straight wire with gain"--that is, I typically seek out the most neutral and colorless components possible. Some folks get a cumulative effect of being "tonally neutral" with a combination of the right amp and phones and if you get the sound you want out of it, that's all that really matters. I considered once that the easy-to-drive AT W2002 and a Walkman might be as good for some people as a very high end amplifier and a harder to drive headphone on a home source.

I've also of course figured this might be the case with the RA-1, which I don't care much for (or about). Some people really like it with Grado headphones especially and of course there is a good argument for it being the exact sound that John Grado had in mind (source and cables pending, of course). I just personally don't seem to hear things the same way as John Grado myself. And it always bewilders me when people suggest that the RA-1 is a comparatively a good amp for the HD600.

*shrug*

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly ........RA-1, which I don't care much for (or about). Some people really like it with Grado headphones especially and of course there is a good argument for it being the exact sound that John Grado had in mind (source and cables pending, of course). I just personally don't seem to hear things the same way as John Grado myself. And it always bewilders me when people suggest that the RA-1 is a comparatively a good amp for the HD600. *shrug*

Maybe they like the sound of something or hear things a certain way. Sort of like you. I don't think there is any right or wrong way to enjoy the sound of music.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly This is really the understatement of Head-Fi. So many people use one components tonal response to equalize the tonal response of another product that it becomes difficult to talk about straight performance. This is in my view where the term "synergy" so often comes from... My philosophy is more in line with what people call "straight wire with gain"--that is, I typically seek out the most neutral and colorless components possible. Some folks get a cumulative effect of being "tonally neutral" with a combination of the right amp and phones and if you get the sound you want out of it, that's all that really matters.

The view of synergy is much narrower than the one I use. It can emcompass compatibility at one extreme (there is a synergistic relationship between OTL amps and high impedance cans, as true OTL amps often (not always) have problems with low imdepedance loads). At this extreme, synergism is pretty much interchangeable with compatibility.

Another extreme might be the use of different cables to find the right one that brings out the sound of a different system. The bottom line is that we really don't know exactly why a cable sounds good in a particular system, and not as good in another. It's not as easy to talk about a "straight wire with gain" when you realize that even a straight wire without gain is adding or subtracting from the audio signal.

You can try to select the most colorless components possible. However, all you're really doing it matching them to the components you already have. A "colorness" component can be doing things besides being neutral. It can appear colorless because it's actually concealing coloration in other components. This effect will produce apparent neutrality across a wide range of systems, but what's really going on is subtractive, and not good IMO. I'd rather have all the sounds out in the open, and put together a system. The kicker is that you can put "neutral" individual components together and wind up with a system that is far from neutral. Not only must the components be neutral, but they must combine in a way that reflects "neutrality". But...

I don't believe that a colorless component exists. Not a headphone, not an amp, not a cable. At least, I've never heard one. So, what's a person to do? My approach is to keep my eye on the goal, rather than the means. The end is the music. The system that produces the best musical experience for me is the one I want. I don't really worry that much about coloration or neutrality, because there's no guarantee that something I find uncolored will be uncolored for someone else. Could be their system, their personal preferences, or the shape of their pinnae...but people hear things differently than each other. Even "neutrality" is personal.

And so, if the end result works, I don't worry about the pieces I used to get it too much. That's work, and I'm lazy. I want a good musical experience when I listen. If I get that, the rest is trivial.

 

[kelly]

Hirsch
I believe you're misinterpretting the "straight wire with gain" philosophy. It's an ideal that is unachievable but strived for. The idea is to find the least colored and most neutral components -- not that any component in the real world is completely without coloration or flaw. As to your rhetoric about achieving a sound you like, I believe that is a goal shared with all of us--it is only the means to that end that I was addressing.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch The view of synergy is much narrower than the one I use. It can emcompass compatibility at one extreme (there is a synergistic relationship between OTL amps and high impedance cans, as true OTL amps often (not always) have problems with low imdepedance loads). At this extreme, synergism is pretty much interchangeable with compatibility. Another extreme might be the use of different cables to find the right one that brings out the sound of a different system. The bottom line is that we really don't know exactly why a cable sounds good in a particular system, and not as good in another. It's not as easy to talk about a "straight wire with gain" when you realize that even a straight wire without gain is adding or subtracting from the audio signal. You can try to select the most colorless components possible. However, all you're really doing it matching them to the components you already have. A "colorness" component can be doing things besides being neutral. It can appear colorless because it's actually concealing coloration in other components. This effect will produce apparent neutrality across a wide range of systems, but what's really going on is subtractive, and not good IMO. I'd rather have all the sounds out in the open, and put together a system. The kicker is that you can put "neutral" individual components together and wind up with a system that is far from neutral. Not only must the components be neutral, but they must combine in a way that reflects "neutrality". But... I don't believe that a colorless component exists. Not a headphone, not an amp, not a cable. At least, I've never heard one. So, what's a person to do? My approach is to keep my eye on the goal, rather than the means. The end is the music. The system that produces the best musical experience for me is the one I want. I don't really worry that much about coloration or neutrality, because there's no guarantee that something I find uncolored will be uncolored for someone else. Could be their system, their personal preferences, or the shape of their pinnae...but people hear things differently than each other. Even "neutrality" is personal. And so, if the end result works, I don't worry about the pieces I used to get it too much. That's work, and I'm lazy. I want a good musical experience when I listen. If I get that, the rest is trivial.

Excellent post, one of the best I've ever read here. It puts things in proper perspective, getting back to basics with useable and logical points. You should not have to debate on whether or not you are being affected by music. That sounds like a bit of a cop out, since you can enjoy music through a transistor radio if the mood strikes you, but sometimes we wander too far afield of the reason we liked music in the first place.

 

[drewski]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly Some people really like it with Grado headphones especially and of course there is a good argument for it being the exact sound that John Grado had in mind (source and cables pending, of course). I just personally don't seem to hear things the same way as John Grado myself. *shrug*

Hmmm... since Grado is the most well known Phono cartridge company, might John Grado be using an analog source??? I definitely don't want to start the analog vs. digital discussion here, but I would bet a good analog source would fix some of the shortcomings that have been described about this amp- especially with a Grado cartridges, which are known for being warm sounding and very polite sounding.

I'll have to do some homework this weekend and find some of my old Grado cartridges and mount them on my analog rig!