[Michgelsen]

  The m903's USB interface is ground isolated so the computer ground is not connected to audio ground. It sounds like it could be a ground loop with the computer ground and your amp ground. Have you tried a ground lift adapter on either the amp or on your computer? You could also try plugging the amp in to a different outlet to see if that helps. 

 
Yes, it seems to have worked! Thank you very much for your support!
I have now connected the amp to a different, ungrounded outlet and the noises are gone as far as I can tell. I wouldn't have thought it would be a grounding problem, because it sounds so different from previous ground loops I have encountered, but I'm glad the fix turned out to be so easy after all.
 
Previously, I had tied the chassis of the amp to a real ground, and grounded my whole system through that, because all devices share their ground via the power strip, but the power strip itself is not grounded. (I have no grounded outlets in this room.) Now I have grounded the computer case instead, to ground everything that is connected to the power strip.
Am I right in assuming that the chassis of the amp is still grounded via the rca cables > m9xx > usb cable shield > computer now (and that this was completing the loop, via the power strip)? If I leave this system completely ungrounded, I get a slight hum from the amp, and get little shocks from the computer case, so I need to ground the system somewhere. I guess the current setup works.
 
I hope the next iteration of the m9xx can have a ground isolated usb input again. It would make hooking everything up much easier. I would gladly pay slightly more for this. Does the m920 still have this?

 

[GraceDesign]

   
Yes, it seems to have worked! Thank you very much for your support!
I have now connected the amp to a different, ungrounded outlet and the noises are gone as far as I can tell. I wouldn't have thought it would be a grounding problem, because it sounds so different from previous ground loops I have encountered, but I'm glad the fix turned out to be so easy after all.
 
Previously, I had tied the chassis of the amp to a real ground, and grounded my whole system through that, because all devices share their ground via the power strip, but the power strip itself is not grounded. (I have no grounded outlets in this room.) Now I have grounded the computer case instead, to ground everything that is connected to the power strip.
Am I right in assuming that the chassis of the amp is still grounded via the rca cables > m9xx > usb cable shield > computer now (and that this was completing the loop, via the power strip)? If I leave this system completely ungrounded, I get a slight hum from the amp, and get little shocks from the computer case, so I need to ground the system somewhere. I guess the current setup works.
 
I hope the next iteration of the m9xx can have a ground isolated usb input again. It would make hooking everything up much easier. I would gladly pay slightly more for this. Does the m920 still have this?

Glad that worked! The m920 does have a ground isolated USB interface. Since the m9xx was designed to be bus powered, it wouldn't be possible to isolate the ground. The Toslink input is ground isolated by nature. If we did make a version of the m9xx with ground isolated data input, it could only be self powered and cost significantly more. Your grounding situation is a bit special however...
 
What I believe to be happening is that a ground loop was made from the computer power plug, to the m9xx via USB ground, then to the amp via RCA shield, then back to the power strip. This caused the ground to act as a sort of antenna that was picking up your computer noise and putting it into the audio ground.
 
You definitely want to have well grounded electrical outlets. If you own the place you're at, might be worth getting an electrician out there to install a ground spike and get all your outlets properly grounded. 

 

[Delance26]

   
Yes, it seems to have worked! Thank you very much for your support!
I have now connected the amp to a different, ungrounded outlet and the noises are gone as far as I can tell. I wouldn't have thought it would be a grounding problem, because it sounds so different from previous ground loops I have encountered, but I'm glad the fix turned out to be so easy after all.
 
Previously, I had tied the chassis of the amp to a real ground, and grounded my whole system through that, because all devices share their ground via the power strip, but the power strip itself is not grounded. (I have no grounded outlets in this room.) Now I have grounded the computer case instead, to ground everything that is connected to the power strip.
Am I right in assuming that the chassis of the amp is still grounded via the rca cables > m9xx > usb cable shield > computer now (and that this was completing the loop, via the power strip)? If I leave this system completely ungrounded, I get a slight hum from the amp, and get little shocks from the computer case, so I need to ground the system somewhere. I guess the current setup works.
 
I hope the next iteration of the m9xx can have a ground isolated usb input again. It would make hooking everything up much easier. I would gladly pay slightly more for this. Does the m920 still have this?

 

  Glad that worked! The m920 does have a ground isolated USB interface. Since the m9xx was designed to be bus powered, it wouldn't be possible to isolate the ground. The Toslink input is ground isolated by nature. If we did make a version of the m9xx with ground isolated data input, it could only be self powered and cost significantly more. Your grounding situation is a bit special however...
 
What I believe to be happening is that a ground loop was made from the computer power plug, to the m9xx via USB ground, then to the amp via RCA shield, then back to the power strip. This caused the ground to act as a sort of antenna that was picking up your computer noise and putting it into the audio ground.
 
You definitely want to have well grounded electrical outlets. If you own the place you're at, might be worth getting an electrician out there to install a ground spike and get all your outlets properly grounded. 

Good guy grace audio saving the day.  You guys have excellent customer support.  It certainly gives me confidence not only in your product, but also if some is ever to go wrong you are there to help!
 
I am also glad your device is now working properly MichGelsen!

 

[Michgelsen]

  The m920 does have a ground isolated USB interface. Since the m9xx was designed to be bus powered, it wouldn't be possible to isolate the ground. The Toslink input is ground isolated by nature. If we did make a version of the m9xx with ground isolated data input, it could only be self powered and cost significantly more. Your grounding situation is a bit special however...

 
I see, thank you for the explanation. Sounds logical.
 

Originally Posted by GraceDesign /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
What I believe to be happening is that a ground loop was made from the computer power plug, to the m9xx via USB ground, then to the amp via RCA shield, then back to the power strip. This caused the ground to act as a sort of antenna that was picking up your computer noise and putting it into the audio ground.
 
You definitely want to have well grounded electrical outlets. If you own the place you're at, might be worth getting an electrician out there to install a ground spike and get all your outlets properly grounded. 

 
Unfortunately it's an old, rented place, from the time it wasn't compulsory to have grounded outlets everywhere. The best I can do right now is using the shield of the radio/tv coax cable as a ground, which is grounded by the cable company. We do have a residual-current device, so safety isn't compromised.

 

[nottheface]

It might be somewhere buried in this thread, but how do you get this to work with Windows 10? I upgraded and my 9xx stopped working. So I reversed the upgrade. But at some point I'm going to have to figure out how to make it work with win10.

 

[GraceDesign]

It might be somewhere buried in this thread, but how do you get this to work with Windows 10? I upgraded and my 9xx stopped working. So I reversed the upgrade. But at some point I'm going to have to figure out how to make it work with win10.

The m9xx should work with Windows 10. Did you try re-installing the driver after the upgrade? 

 

[Delance26]

It might be somewhere buried in this thread, but how do you get this to work with Windows 10? I upgraded and my 9xx stopped working. So I reversed the upgrade. But at some point I'm going to have to figure out how to make it work with win10.

It works with windows 10, I currently have via windows 10.  You may want to install the USB 2 driver as this may resolve the problem.  If the computer does not recognize it when you plug it in (usually gives a message about "new device detected..." yada yada yada) than try a new USB port to see if the connection is bad.  If it does recognize it than ensure it is selected as the default audio device.  IF it is not than sound will be produced from another pathway, and not via the m9XX.

 

[nottheface]

The m9xx should work with Windows 10. Did you try re-installing the driver after the upgrade? 

Didn't do a reinstall. I had assumed if it was working in Win7 it would continue working. I had a bit of trouble with blue screens getting it to work the first time so I didn't want to mess with it. I'll give it a shot tonight.

 

[psonoda]

Does anyone here have the Grace and the Oppo BD105d player.  I am looking to get an universal player but not sure if I should go for the BD103 or BD105.  The 105 have a separate audio section with balanced out.  There is also a headphone amp but I am less concerned with that feature.  

 

[sheldaze]

  Does anyone here have the Grace and the Oppo BD105d player.  I am looking to get an universal player but not sure if I should go for the BD103 or BD105.  The 105 have a separate audio section with balanced out.  There is also a headphone amp but I am less concerned with that feature.  

Had the Grace.
I highly recommend the balanced outputs from the BDP-105. I did not care for the single-ended outputs. Still not clear how the disc spinner relates to the Grace Design m9XX?

 

[21qz]

Hi Guys,
 
I'm sorry to throw this off rail, but could someone please help me with determining what is a better choice for me?
I'm looking at the M9XX vs. Creative Sound Blaster X7 or X7(LE).
 
I understand that the M9XX is more portable and the X7 was designed to be more of an "All in one" w/ gaming in mind.
Aside from that I'm more interested in hearing your thoughts on the guts because if we're going by looks the M9XX is far more handsome.
 
How big is the sacrifice here? Massdrop has a drop going for the X7 respectively at 319.99 or 419.99 for the Limited Edition.
Some things worth mentioning are that I have no other gear, this will be used at desktop Dac/headphone amp w/ AKG K702 Annies, my only source of high end music currently is Tidal, and My desktop computer has stock Mobo soundcard. 
 
Trying to keep it simple ....  

 

[Psalmanazar]

  Hi Guys,
 
I'm sorry to throw this off rail, but could someone please help me with determining what is a better choice for me?
I'm looking at the M9XX vs. Creative Sound Blaster X7 or X7(LE).
 
I understand that the M9XX is more portable and the X7 was designed to be more of an "All in one" w/ gaming in mind.
Aside from that I'm more interested in hearing your thoughts on the guts because if we're going by looks the M9XX is far more handsome.
 
How big is the sacrifice here? Massdrop has a drop going for the X7 respectively at 319.99 or 419.99 for the Limited Edition.
Some things worth mentioning are that I have no other gear, this will be used at desktop Dac/headphone amp w/ AKG K702 Annies, my only source of high end music currently is Tidal, and My desktop computer has stock Mobo soundcard. 
 
Trying to keep it simple ....  

M9XX any day. the M9XX is a good, transportable all in one. I liked its implementation of the AK4490 better than the even warmer Bifrost 4490 too.

 

[Michgelsen]

Indeed, I find it a bit warm sounding. Quite pleasant.

 

[Delance26]

The one huge perk to the X7 is that it has a huge amount of flexibility as far as things it can do.  Bluetooth,NFC,power passive speakers, audio software, headphone holder/stand, and other things.  The disadvantage of all of these perks is that they are all average.  I would say they are truly only worth it if you have passive speakers you listen to regularly, and headphones, and you game a lot.  If you mostly plan to listen through headphones than the m9XX is superb.  It also powers active speakers just fine (I do that while watching movies).  I should also not have to mention the m9XX is vastly more portable than the X7 and has a much small desktop footprint.
 
If warranties are important to you Grace has a 5 year warranty on the m9xx whereas the X7 comes with 1 or 2 I do believe.  This in its own shows how much faith a company has in its product.

 

[21qz]

  The one huge perk to the X7 is that it has a huge amount of flexibility as far as things it can do.  Bluetooth,NFC,power passive speakers, audio software, headphone holder/stand, and other things.  The disadvantage of all of these perks is that they are all average.  I would say they are truly only worth it if you have passive speakers you listen to regularly, and headphones, and you game a lot.  If you mostly plan to listen through headphones than the m9XX is superb.  It also powers active speakers just fine (I do that while watching movies).  I should also not have to mention the m9XX is vastly more portable than the X7 and has a much small desktop footprint.
 
If warranties are important to you Grace has a 5 year warranty on the m9xx whereas the X7 comes with 1 or 2 I do believe.  This in its own shows how much faith a company has in its product.

Hi and thanks for your input sir. The reason I'm comparing the two are because I can and plan to use the X7 for all that you have mentioned. I just didn't know how well it stood as a headphone amp and DAC compared to the M9XX. Could tweaking the sound with audio software possibly give you "Like" sound quality of the M9XX? As you can tell I'm not avid with Soundology lol. In all seriousness there are so many components in these amps that I don't know what I'm looking for. The M9XX appears to be a lot of high end components in a small package and for a bargain. That's great, but aside from the flexibility options of the X7 (After comparing apples to apples) I hear you telling me that the M9XX is a no brainer yes?