[Halexx]

Thank you, it worked!

For reference, to get the access to this setting:

Press Home on the remote controller
-Go to Set-up
-Go to AV Set-up
-Go to Digital audio, set to PCM

 

[PopZeus]

I gotta say, the grace m9XX has really stepped up with my Focal Elears. That's a piece of gear that exposes any weak link and this DAC/amp combo has scaled up very well.

 

[Hi-Fi EDU]

More m9XX praise: Being lucky to own this device from drop 1, there are two sonic traits I've grown to appreciate so much about the m9XX: 1) Transparency (I forget A LOT that my music is being piped through this thing; ie. I feel like I'm hearing the music and the headphone's true, full character) and 2) Low-end reproduction (Man...this thing can really grab the low-end authoritatively by the balls, if you will. Love the top-end reproduction too). I'll skip the physical pluses this time. Again, I'm so satisfied with this great frickin' device!

 

[crazy88888888]

Is it safe to run the m9xx at 99 all the time ?

 

[Maelob]

is it 99 the max,

Is it safe to run the m9xx at 99 all the time ?

For headphone use or line out?
If its just for line out see below
A volume level of 90 is “unity gain” and will allow the m9XX to produce a 2V output signal for a 0dBFS digital input signal.

If you are connecting headphones, 99 is the max, so you either have big time hearing loss or you have very inefficient headphones, if thats the case then you probably need another headphone amp.

 

[crazy88888888]

is it 99 the max,

For headphone use or line out?
If its just for line out see below
A volume level of 90 is “unity gain” and will allow the m9XX to produce a 2V output signal for a 0dBFS digital input signal.

If you are connecting headphones, 99 is the max, so you either have big time hearing loss or you have very inefficient headphones, if thats the case then you probably need another headphone amp.

LCD-3 at 99 is good listening volume for me. I don't think I have hearing loss. Just wondering if it's safe to sustain max volume.

 

[Maelob]

I think is thats the case then your headphones are not efficient enough for the Grace. I would feel very uncomfortable pushing an amp to the max, i would instead get an amp that can easily power your lcd-3, good value would be a Schiit Jotumheim and keep the Grace as a DAC

 

[mandrake50]

@lalilulelo1
Something is going on here that we don't understand. The LCD 3 is rated at 102 db at 1 mw. That is pretty high efficiency for a full size headphone. If my calculations are correct it takes only 6 mw into them to get 110 DB SPL. 120 DB at around 65 mw. The M9xx should be able to do at least 300 mw into the 110 ohms of the LCD3. So my conclusion is that either the OP is destroying their ears every time they listen, or something we have not heard is going on. I suppose that the input level to the M9xx could be very low. The M9XX could be having problems, or... cabling, headphones... I would check to make sure that any volume controls, like in the drivers or the player software is set correctly. Try everything wide open upstream, at least as a test.

Now if the M9XX is OK and it is drive level, running it within it specifications and without any distortion being produced, (EDIT: and the temperature is not excessively elevated) there would be nothing wrong with running it wide open for long periods. It is all about what is coming out, not the volume setting.

One other thing, is the unit in high power mode using the additional power supply? This will make a big difference.

BTW, I had a borrowed set of LCD3s for a couple of days. They were from a work colleague. I used them with my M9XX in my office. IIRC, I was running it at 65 to 70 on the volume display. This would have put it in that 75 to 85 DB range that I prefer. I am certain that I did not ever run the M9XX full open at 99.5.
Of course maybe @lalilulelo1 is joking...??

 

[crazy88888888]

@lalilulelo1
Something is going on here that we don't understand. The LCD 3 is rated at 102 db at 1 mw. That is pretty high efficiency for a full size headphone. If my calculations are correct it takes only 6 mw into them to get 110 DB SPL. 120 DB at around 65 mw. The M9xx should be able to do at least 300 mw into the 110 ohms of the LCD3. So my conclusion is that either the OP is destroying their ears every time they listen, or something we have not heard is going on. I suppose that the input level to the M9xx could be very low. The M9XX could be having problems, or... cabling, headphones... I would check to make sure that any volume controls, like in the drivers or the player software is set correctly. Try everything wide open upstream, at least as a test.

Now if the M9XX is OK and it is drive level, running it within it specifications and without any distortion being produced, (EDIT: and the temperature is not excessively elevated) there would be nothing wrong with running it wide open for long periods. It is all about what is coming out, not the volume setting.

One other thing, is the unit in high power mode using the additional power supply? This will make a big difference.

BTW, I had a borrowed set of LCD3s for a couple of days. They were from a work colleague. I used them with my M9XX in my office. IIRC, I was running it at 65 to 70 on the volume display. This would have put it in that 75 to 85 DB range that I prefer. I am certain that I did not ever run the M9XX full open at 99.5.
Of course maybe @lalilulelo1 is joking...??

Not joking at all lol... maybe I'll go clean my ear wax out and try again. I have TH-900 and past 90 I am definitely getting a headache. But on LCD / HD800 /HE400i I can put at 99 and it IS loud but also bearable. Think I should have mentioned it's also just youtube music.

 

[crazy88888888]

Dash Berlin feat. Emma Hewitt - Waiting (Official Music Video) - YouTube.

HE-400i ; Max volume on PC, Youtube, M9XX (HP mode/Toslink). Not ear bleeding to me. Loud but I can listen at this volume enjoyably.

99 is enjoyable enough I don't wish for a stronger amp, but I don't want to kill my M9XX either.

 

[mandrake50]

Not joking at all lol... maybe I'll go clean my ear wax out and try again. I have TH-900 and past 90 I am definitely getting a headache. But on LCD / HD800 /HE400i I can put at 99 and it IS loud but also bearable. Think I should have mentioned it's also just youtube music.

Why would you want to ever get to unbearable?? Unbearable can and will do irreparable damage to your ears.
LOUD should be more than sufficient. Not LOUD, but good, is much better for you.

Check the input level INTO the M9XX. The amp is absolutely capable of driving the LCD 3 to ear damaging levels.

Any amp has a fixed amount of gain. If it is 6 DB (for instance) the difference will be, between input and output MAX, 6 DB.
Raise the input, you make major differences in the REAL output numbers. Change the output level (volume) on your YouTube player. Change the output from you sound card or DAC INTO the M9xx.
Crank everything all of the way UP !! Not because you "need to", but because you seem to want more.

Bottom line is, low input, low output. As long as you are not maxing the output level of the M9xx.. or exceeding it (distortion/heat), the M9xx amp will not be stressed at all. Run it at 99.5 all day long.
I would sort out your input levels though. What if you want more than 99.5 gives you... while still not hearing distortion ??? Raise the input level... (output form your device driving the INPUT of the M9XX ).

BTW, unbearable is not a good goal. It WILL end up limiting your enjoyment of music even over the Short term. Ear damage to those little hair cells will never regenerate.
You would be well served if nothing you have was even able to do "unbearable" !!!

One last thought, the LDC3 is higher impedance that the others that you mention. The little M9XX will put out les power into that load. That does not mean it cannot drive those phones quite well... even if it does not allow you to hurt yourself with them. But it will, with sufficient input levels.

 

[Roger Gu]

Anyone updated to the latest firmware - 2.2? Any caveat?

I am currently using the windows default U2 driver and it works fine, but it seems I have to install Grace driver to get the DFU app to update the firmware. Any other way?

Thanks!

 

[Roger Gu]

Never mind, I just installed the driver and update the firmware. Grace website lists it as v2.2, but it is actually 2.02.

 

[mandrake50]

Dash Berlin feat. Emma Hewitt - Waiting (Official Music Video) - YouTube.

HE-400i ; Max volume on PC, Youtube, M9XX (HP mode/Toslink). Not ear bleeding to me. Loud but I can listen at this volume enjoyably..

99 is enjoyable enough I don't wish for a stronger amp, but I don't want to kill my M9XX either

I would worry about your ears before I would worry about the Grace.

Difference in the volume settings is due to the difference in the impedance AND sensitivity of the headphones.
HE 400i 35 OHMS LCD3 110 OHMS. Amp will do approximately 3X the power into 35 versus 110 ohms. Even though the LCD3 is more efficient, there WILL be a difference in the volume settings for the same SPL.

Bottom line here, the amp has more than enough power into the LCD3 to hurt you when properly driven.
You are using Toslink FROM what? What is the source? What are the output level specs for that source. Sensitivity and output levels still apply with digital communications.
Have you tried USB out from a device with the proper driver installed?

No matter. Do what you will. I can pretty confidently say that if the M9XX is not distorting nor overheating.. running it wide open is not a problem.
is your source doing this, was the question. Certainly you can chose to ignore the realities. If your M9xx is working properly, and is being driven properly, it has plenty of power to hurt you with the LCD3.
If it is easier for you than to understand and fix the input part, just crank it up. It will not hurt anything. If it does, it has a 5 year warranty to back you up.

Drive it right and it will support your desire to "listen at unbearable levels" and continue to destroy your ears.

DUDE.. you are listening at unsafe levels. Do you have a clue? Have you really read anything that I have written?

I give up.

Good luck.

 

[Alanaudio]

I'm selling my m920 in almost new condition:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/grace-design-m920-all-in-one-for-sale-price-updated.852504/