[Peerbreed]

In the last month I've bought a few vinyl records. The problem is I have no turntable to play these records on! I've read about the Technics SL-1200MK2 and this appears to be a great choice for my price range. For the cartridge I am considering the Grado black. Do I really need to get a new arm for? I don't really want to go over $550 for this setup, but if I have to I will

 

[tom hankins]

The Technics is a decent table. They have quite a cult following. I own (for emergency backup) one myself. But they are not as great as the cult would have you believe.
They are not on the level of the entry level Regas for about the same money used. I would go to audiogon and look for one of the following., P1, P2, or for a little over your budget P3-24. (all regas) and can almost always be found with decent rega cartridges.

 

[memepool]

Grado carts are are not the best mechanically suited to the Technics arm , a better match would be a Denon DL-110 / 160.

The Technics is a fine starter table with upgrade potential but won't sound quite as good as the Rega's ( the P2 / P3 anyway ) out of the box.

The Rega arms lift the performance of these decks into another league, but the main drawback with them is that the deck itself isn't as well made as the Technics hence the arm upgrade.

Rega carts are very well designed and convenient insofar as the three point mounting pattern they use makes fitting a doddle, however it comes at a hefty premium even in England, I dread to think how much they cost in the USA.

If you like the look of the Technics and think you will be into upgrading it in the long term, it's a classic deck which will work trouble free for a lifetime.

If you want an easy introduction to vinyl with something more plug and play then go for one of the Regas but bear in mind you will probably want to sell it and get something better at some point in the near future.

Either way don't worry about it as they will both hold their value well and are always in demand.

 

[bigshot]

Technics, Thorens, Dual... all very good turntables. If you only have a few records, there's no reason to spend a lot on a turntable until you know that is the format you want to concentrate on. Get a good used turntable and a midrange cartridge. It will sound great.

See ya
Steve

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peerbreed /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the last month I've bought a few vinyl records. The problem is I have no turntable to play these records on! I've read about the Technics SL-1200MK2 and this appears to be a great choice for my price range. For the cartridge I am considering the Grado black. Do I really need to get a new arm for? I don't really want to go over $550 for this setup, but if I have to I will

I agree with everything said so far. I like the Technics 1200 MKII turntable but I am not a fan of the tonearm. The stock unit will sound decent with a Denon DL-110 and its very simple to set-up so it makes an excellent choice for someone new to vinyl. The problem with the stock tonearm and attached wiring is that it is incapable of extracting all of the detail and dynamics contained within the record grooves but given the fact that it costs only around $70,who can complain. The stock tonearm has enough quality that it will do no damage to a record collection but by not upgrading it, you would be missing out on an excellent listening experience.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you only have a few records, there's no reason to spend a lot on a turntable until you know that is the format you want to concentrate on. Get a good used turntable and a midrange cartridge.

This is great advice.

Getting input from audiophiles about turntables will have you spending $1000 before you know it. Fine if you have a spare grand to play with, but why not pick up a decent used player and live with it for a year to see if you even like the format?

Memepool started what is probably the most helpful thread on the subject here, recommending lots of decks available for $100 or less.

 

[Peerbreed]

The Rega P2 does look like what I'm looking for. A good sounding out of the box experience. I love to play my mother's R&B and Jazz vinyl collection, so I know I love the format. Many years ago I had a cheap no name turntable that ended up breaking. I never replaced it, because at the time none of the music I enjoyed (teen pop) came out on vinyl. Now most the music I love comes out in this format. So it's about time for my return to the lovely black disc.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peerbreed /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Rega P2 does look like what I'm looking for. A good sounding out of the box experience. I love to play my mother's R&B and Jazz vinyl collection, so I know I love the format. Many years ago I had a cheap no name turntable that ended up breaking. I never replaced it, because at the time none of the music I enjoyed (teen pop) came out on vinyl. Now most the music I love comes out in this format. So it's about time for my return to the lovely black disc.

When auditioning the P2,try listening to piano music. Warbeling notes as they decay are easy to pick out if the turntable isn't running true. If it passes this test,you are probably good to go.

 

[pdupiano]

Hey everybody,

I'm actually in the same boat as PeerBreed and I looked over the 100 and less turntables, but aside from the price very little is said about those players. I've also tried to look for used Rega's but they seem to be out on ebay and I don't know of any local shops that sell record players, just records (I'm in Union, NJ if anyone has any shop recommendations -I'm willing to travel atleast 2 hours from my location for a good music store).

I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for anything around $250 at most and works well with blues. Particularly artists with warm and powerful vocals like Marc Cohn and perhaps Josh Groban. I'd also use this for classical lps as well but mainly for blues stuff.

Thanks

 

[bigshot]

As long as you go with Thorens, Technics or Dual, you are pretty safe. All their models were good and can be had for a reasonable price in good condition. The best tip you will receive in buying a used turntable is BUY LOCAL. They don't ship well. Check the local want ads and search ebay for local sellers.

See ya
Steve

 

[Uncle Erik]

Get an affordable used turntable first. Check local listings and buy the one that's a decent brand and in good shape. You might even luck out and buy from someone who will give you advice and help with setup.

My experience with vinyl is that you won't know what you like until you get into it. An expensive deck right off might be money wasted. Get a decent one that works, see how much you use it, and take notes of shortcomings/dislikes. When/if you want to upgrade, you'll have a good idea of what direction you want to take.

I dropped $200 on my first table, used it a lot more than I thought I would, then did a lot of homework and went for the "dream" rig. Took me about a year to get there and have zero plans to upgrade, but want to try more cartridges.

 

[mars-fi]

If you're looking for a good used table I would consider an AR (Acoustic Research). They are low cost (the AR originally retailed for $78 in the 1980's), high quality (beautiful solid wood cabinet), extremely modifiable (check out vinylnirvana.com) and most importantly they produce wonderful sound. It's a belt-drive table based on a three-point spring suspension sub-chassis. It's not a Cadillac, but it is a solid performer. Check out this interview with Lloyd Walker of Sota turntable fame: 6moons audio reviews: Walker*Audio Proscenium Gold turntable & Reference phono preamp. He like many audiophiles cut his teeth on the AR. It's a great little table, but unfortunately highly sought after.

 

[searchenabler]

I can't imagine a better 'new' table for the 500 dollar range as compared to the Technics 1200. The 1200 has a superb drive system, a good arm with tight bearing tolerances, and it's build quality is top shelf: the table chassis/body is made from thick cast aluminum - and the bottom is solid hard rubber - acting as a dampener. The turning platter is a constrained layer sandwich of aluminum and rubber layers - making a dead structure. The direct drive in this unit has very low noise level/rumble and aboslute accurate speed/rotation. Can you get better tables? Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can, but not for 500 dollars for a new table.

If you will go used, you can get some incredible units, though, for 500. Denon has some high end tables from the early 80's, that have tone arms of incredible ability: they have active sensor/actuators that sense arm movement due to record warping as well as dynamic loading differences and certain resonances - this data is sent to a CPU which is connected to active motion units that feedback into the arm to cancel these errors. Combined with very high quality accurate drive systems, these were some very fine grade turn tables. There are also some other very high quality tables from other makers, such as Pioneer(though the good ones are extremely rare - amost all of the vintage Pioneer TTs on ebay are mediocre units) and even Sony. The high end TTs from the major players with huge development funds and advanced technology really paled the current high-end units available today that are developed on shoe-string budgets in comparison.

Slightly off topic: I often wonder just how 'bad' the Technics Sl1200 arm really is..... I plan to eventually get one simply to record it's output, next to my Marantz TT-15S1(a table using the ClearAudio Satisfy arm - supposedly a very high grade TT arm that costs $1200 by itself), using the same cartridge installed on both tables. I want to synch these recordings and attempt to identify them in double blinded testing using ABX software. It should be interesting. Of course, I hope that the Satisfy arm is a difference, since my TT was so expensive, compared to a 'lowly' SL1200MK2. But I would not really be surprised if they sounded identical, or at least so close it does not matter, simply because so many things in the audiophile world are over-hyped.

Chris

 

[ComfyCan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by searchenabler /img/forum/go_quote.gif Slightly off topic: I often wonder just how 'bad' the Technics Sl1200 arm really is..... I plan to eventually get one simply to record it's output, next to my Marantz TT-15S1(a table using the ClearAudio Satisfy arm - supposedly a very high grade TT arm that costs $1200 by itself), using the same cartridge installed on both tables. I want to synch these recordings and attempt to identify them in double blinded testing using ABX software. It should be interesting. Of course, I hope that the Satisfy arm is a difference, since my TT was so expensive, compared to a 'lowly' SL1200MK2. But I would not really be surprised if they sounded identical, or at least so close it does not matter, simply because so many things in the audiophile world are over-hyped. Chris

A little googling or targeted searches on audio forums reveals a great deal of discussion about the SL1200 series tone arms and comparisons to other available products. One thing I have noticed: most owners are pretty happy with them. If they aren't happy with them, they typically have no trouble getting most of their money back in the used market.

Double blind tests are always interesting to me, but when you are talking about comparing tonearms, there are so many variables at play that it's truly challenging to set it up with any kind of validity. Just one example: cart. setup and compatibility on the different arms. The best way to do it would be to put different arms (perhaps with a cartridge that sounds good on both) on 2 different SL1200's and listen for differences. In any event, if the testing is just for "fun-zies", there's no reason to go to all that trouble.

I'm looking forward to receipt of my KAB modded SL1200M2K which I just ordered to replace my dying Marantz 6100. I wound up spending more on mods than I intended to, but what the heck--it's the headfi way.

One of the mods I ordered was upgraded wiring of the tonearm and the table itself (Cardas I think). Kevin is a little backed up on orders because there was a shortage of 1200's for awhile but that's no longer an issue. He also has a delay for those that order the threaded record clamp option, since it has to be machined carefully by a sub-contractor. So, I'll probably have it in 4-6 weeks.

 

[tubes]

I second the Denon cartridges, far better than a Grado Black and dirt cheap for the quality.