[Veniogenesis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure So then why do people talk about upgrading sound cards when talking about source? Are they really talking about upgrading to a sound card with a better DAC on it? But then what about those already with a DAC that upgrade their "source" with a higher sound card?

I've always been confused by this as well. The optical/digital outs of soundcards should be the same. All that matters should be the DAC. The only reason I can think of is similar to that of upgrading cables. What people are upgrading is the quality of the circuits/components between the PCI input and the optical/digital output. Other than that, I'm oblivious.

(And I want to know why too!

)

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veniogenesis I've always been confused by this as well. The optical/digital outs of soundcards should be the same. All that matters should be the DAC. The only reason I can think of is similar to that of upgrading cables. What people are upgrading is the quality of the circuits/components between the PCI input and the optical/digital output. Other than that, I'm oblivious. (And I want to know why too! )

Jitter and clock? The only two words I know.. what it means I haven't a clue. All I know is that I noticed a difference from the AV-710 to the Squeezebox 3, definitely not placebo, and definitely not a subtle difference - switching from A/B couldn't be easier with the DHA3000.

 

[Veniogenesis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akwok Jitter and clock? The only two words I know.. what it means I haven't a clue.

Oh that's right.

Eeeks. I've come across those words way too many times while looking for a good USB DAC. Bleh. As for what those mean, I have vague ideas, but know little technicalities.

 

[Azure]

So, AV-710 -> VDA-1 DAC -> M^3 -> SA5000 would be a perfectly fine set up with no bottlenecking on the source? What other DAC's do you guys recommend in the $300-$400 price range (VDA-1 + VAC-1 = $510)?

 

[elnero]

Alright, here we go again. All digital products like CD players, DVD players, sound cards, etc. have their own digital to analog converters (DAC) in them. If these sources have a digital output of some sort, typically a coaxial or optical output, then an external DAC can be added on as an upgrade. The internal DAC of the original source is bypassed so it then acts simply as a transport to get the data off the disk and output the digital signal. This is a basic example, there is more to it than that and the quality of the transport will make a difference in the overall sound as well but for the sake of this example the above is all you really need to know.

So if you're going to use a computer as your source the main thing you need to be concerned with is bit perfect output from the soundcard, you shouldn't need to spend big bucks on a soundcard that has features you don't need or won't be using if your simply using it as a transport. Apparently a Chaintech AV-710 is capable of bit perfect output and is dirt cheap. From there you go to an external DAC like the Channel Islands, DAC-AH or MHDT Labs (It looks like MHDT have a couple on eBay now. Click on the MHDT Labs link in my sig to go to the sellers eBay page then click on his items for sale.)

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veniogenesis I've always been confused by this as well. The optical/digital outs of soundcards should be the same. All that matters should be the DAC. The only reason I can think of is similar to that of upgrading cables. What people are upgrading is the quality of the circuits/components between the PCI input and the optical/digital output. Other than that, I'm oblivious. (And I want to know why too! )

Hello

the digital outputs of soundcards are not the same....and therefore they can play a role in the final sound. Any transport can be bit-perfect, but the question is, will the 0s and 1s be timed correctly when it hits the DAC? Examples:

1__0___0____1___1
1_0_0_1_1
1____0_0___1_1

All say "10011" and are bit-perfect. However, Azure, you shouldn't worry about transports now, as its not going to be a bottleneck for you

Also, I would pay more attention to the source than the headphone right now, since you don't have the headphones yet

Chances are you're going to upgrade the headphones more than the source. Just get a solid source and everything will be ok

Quote:

What other DAC's do you guys recommend in the $300-$400 price range (VDA-1 + VAC-1 = $510)?

Akwok, what do you think of those Chinese DACs (DAC60 or DAC72 or whatever) that you were showing me earlier? Good for Azure?

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit Hello the digital outputs of soundcards are not the same....and therefore they can play a role in the final sound. Any transport can be bit-perfect, but the question is, will the 0s and 1s be timed correctly when it hits the DAC? Examples: 1__0___0____1___1 1_0_0_1_1 1____0_0___1_1 All say "10011" and are bit-perfect. However, Azure, you shouldn't worry about transports now, as its not going to be a bottleneck for you Also, I would pay more attention to the source than the headphone right now, since you don't have the headphones yet Chances are you're going to upgrade the headphones more than the source. Just get a solid source and everything will be ok Akwok, what do you think of those Chinese DACs (DAC60 or DAC72 or whatever) that you were showing me earlier? Good for Azure?

The DAC60 I would get if I had to get a DAC, but that's just me. Everything looks as it should - good parts, etc.. but it is still a mixed bag for sure.