[Q Mass]

  Boycotting was probably not the best word choice on my part, but you did say that it has reduced your likeliness to spend money on Sennheiser or Woo products.  I guess I am just wondering why people seem so personally offended by this.  It's not like any individual who has entered this contest has a significant chance of winning.  I view any giveaway like this as a positive toward a company, even when I am not eligible to participate.
 
Upon re-reading my earlier post, I can see that it does come off a little aggressive.  That was not my intention at all.  I am really just wondering why this contest (or any similar promotion) would personally upset anyone, especially to the point of making them less likely to spend money toward the company's products.

No offence taken,
Re' the reason U.S contests make people ( including me ) unhappy - I'd like to point out that the whole idea of a promotion of this nature is predicated on the very fact that there IS a chance, however small that any eligible entrant could win ( see; general success of lottery games for an e.g. ), offering that chance to only one group of any community is going to alienate those deemed ineligible for ANY reason.
That's the way I feel anyway, others will undoubtedly disagree.

 

[x838nwy]

  No, these companies sell internationally, and this kind of treatment WILL put off some potential customers, I can prove this be observing that it has reduced the likelyhood that I will spend my money on either of these companies products (by some margin).
If they're remotely sensible they will take note of this effect and open competitions/giveaways to everyone, if they don't see this as an option for them then they'll just have to live with the fact that they're damaging international sales, and Head-fiers outside the U.S. will just have to live with the bad taste a comp' like this leaves in our collective mouths.
 
But it's ok really, it's not like there aren't plenty of other brands to choose from.
I'm not saying that people should boycott Senn' or Woo, just observing that it HAS and WILL put some off, which seems like a bad result from a PR point of view.

 
I cannot comment on whether or not it should put people off. But your proof is not a proof but a reaction which to my mind is based on a misinterpretation of the action of Woo and Sennheiser USA to imply some kind of discrimination against non-US residents.
 
Many companies sell internationally and there are agreements with local distributors that they must respect. Each distributor or subsidiary will have its own marketing strategy, budgets, goals and plans and normally they tend to operate independently. I'm not saying it's the ideal situation but if that's part of their agreement then I think it is not right to hold it against them. Doing an international competition also adds issues of duties (which can be in tens of percents), communication, local regulations (some electronic devices need special certifications for certain markets), operating voltages, warranty coverage and all sorts of other unknowns. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it does add a lot of complications that may affect the feasibility of a campaign.
 
Again, I'm all in favour of competitions that are open to everyone, but honestly eligibility is the decisions of the person(s) running the competition. Trying to argue the case is a bit like trying to change the prize they're giving away. Besides, the whole exclusion/inclusion thing is always tricky. If they run this competition down at your local bar, would anyone else have a problem? What if it's at a particular shopping mall? Would that be unfair to people in other locations? If they run it on fb would that be unfair to people without a fb account or even internet access? Actually, if they just chose to give free stuff to someone who just happened to walk by their office, would that be considered acceptable? It's practically impossible for everyone to be happy. I'm okay that at least some people will get to have a bit of fun and I'm happy for whoever wins this combo (or any other competition). Would I like to be eligible, heck yes. But in the end, it's not my decision. I'm sure if my local hi-fi dealer holds a sweepstake and US citizens are not eligible, they won't complain.

 

[moriez]

The difference is that this is a website open to anyone and for everyone to see which leaves one thinking he or she is an equal part who ''deserves'' an equal opportunity. I kind of understand legal reasons but with that comes exclusion of a large group of community members per definition. This goes beyond a personal level. My opinion is that Head-Fi's management or whoever comes up with contest policies should at least think things over.

 

[Bansaku]

   
Again, I'm all in favour of competitions that are open to everyone, but honestly eligibility is the decisions of the person(s) running the competition. Trying to argue the case is a bit like trying to change the prize they're giving away. Besides, the whole exclusion/inclusion thing is always tricky. If they run this competition down at your local bar, would anyone else have a problem? What if it's at a particular shopping mall? Would that be unfair to people in other locations? If they run it on fb would that be unfair to people without a fb account or even internet access? Actually, if they just chose to give free stuff to someone who just happened to walk by their office, would that be considered acceptable? It's practically impossible for everyone to be happy. I'm okay that at least some people will get to have a bit of fun and I'm happy for whoever wins this combo (or any other competition). Would I like to be eligible, heck yes. But in the end, it's not my decision. I'm sure if my local hi-fi dealer holds a sweepstake and US citizens are not eligible, they won't complain.

 
If Woo had separate sites based on country of origin (like say Apple, or Sennheiser) and only advertised the contest on their US site, then I would say fair game. While I can't argue with your logic, I will add the fact that unlike your examples Head-fi's members are from all over the world. This site has no central location nor does it specifically cater to one specific language or country. So it is more than understandable for non-US residents to be a little put off by Woo advertising their contest here. Just my 2 put off cents.
 

 

[conquerator2]

Well, crud.
I am from EU and this sucks 

 

[youngarthur]

The phrase " Its not the winning,but the taking part" spring to mind. The fact, i buy their products,but cannot take part in the competition,seem at odds. I am a bit peeved about this,so i shall have a small brandy to cheer myself up!. ( Any excuse!!.)

 

[Q Mass]

Membership of Head-Fi is not limited to any one persons local area in the way that the customer base of a bricks and mortar store, It's global.
Promotion opportunities on Head-Fi are therefore also global.
 
I am posting only to alert the companies involved to the fact that excluding a portion of the community here is inevitably going to upset some of those people to a greater or lesser degree.
This promotion clearly isn't going to have the desired effect amongst those excluded from entry.
 
The proof I offer is that this compo' has made me less likely to buy their products Q.E.D
I also speculate that there are others who feel hard done by.
What inspires this speculation?, well, just read the posts in this thread so far, and have a look at other threads for U.S. only compo's.
I've yet to see any compo' on Head-Fi which excludes U.S. entrants in favour of the rest of the world, and I've been a member for years.
 
I can imagine some may think that unhappy posters are just a 'noisy minority', but if that's the case why not simply shut us up by opening this to the entire Head-Fi community?
My own posts would be much more favourable/positive! ( I promise

)
 
After all, if non U.S members are a minority, our inclusion  won't dilute U.S members of winning much, will it?
 
 
I really can't imagine overseas winners complaining if they had to pay duties ( even if it does run to "tens of percent" ) can you?
 
Lastly, the legal hurdles are clearly not insurmountable as other compo's on the site have been open to the whole community.

 

[Brooko]

Can I make a suggestion now to the other international Head-Fi members. We've had three days now, and I think both Woo and Sennheiser will have noted our thoughts about exclusion. It might be a good time now not to disrupt the actual competition any further. It's still a generous offer to the community by both vendors - and the last thing we should continue to do is distract further from the original aim of the offer. All this does is hurt Woo, Sennheiser, and our American fellow members.

 

[pataburd]

It's a pain.
I gave up.
Why can't I just submit an entry without having to go through the rigamarole of signing up/in through a social network [which I loathe]?

 

[howdy]

It's a pain.
I gave up.
Why can't I just submit an entry without having to go through the rigamarole of signing up/in through a social network [which I loathe]?

I agree! I only have Facebook and I liked and shared as I do really like there stuff but I should NOT have to sign up for something I don't like to win something I do like.

 

[HiFiGuy528]

The fact that companies needs to have lawyers and their involvement in a giveaway is the real problem in my personal opinion.  Someone can't even give away something nice without the worries of getting sued.  What is wrong with the society we live in?  Sad....

 

[ChrisCaubin]

I myself don't live in the US (but luckily I know people who do, who have entered on my behalf). I wish it were available worldwide. But, all these negative comments will just result in companies ceasing to provide these giveaways, which is not what we want (at least, it isn't what I want). If it can only be held within the US that is NOT a reason to not hold it. While I agree Sennheiser is a huge, multi-national company, so they have no excuse, I think people must slow down with all the negative comments, or we will stop seeing giveaways almost altogether. 

 

[x838nwy]

Head-fi is open to anyone with internet access. I see no reason why the "rules" of any competition must reflect exactly the policies of head-fi membership because if that is the case the contest must also exclude members who are banned from head-fi. Furthermore it must also include minors and those who are affiliated with those companies and so on and so forth (you know, the usual stuff) which would clearly be a bit odd and quite unreasonable.

If the competition was designed for a group of people, then that's that. I'm sure the architects of the game understood that it may cause some to be a little peeved and apparently for whatever reasons and constraints, they feel it is acceptable. And for me that's that. It's their decision and anyone can feel however they like about it but i urge a reasonable view in light of possible constraints imposed on various groups. I don't think they're trying to or actually can save any money from this policy but they will reduce the risks of unforeseen costs and complications enormously,

Could it be done to better please a wider range of people? Yes. There are many competitions open to international entries currently running. But this is not one of them. Is it the only and final one? i'm sure no. Is it, in my view, reasonable to be upset? I don't think so. Many products are cheaper/available sooner/even better specced in their countries of conception and i can understand that specially for this hobby. Most companies are run by enthusiasts and not some global corporation. The internet allows companies to sell internationally, but it's not like Woo Audio is the same size as Toyota so i can respect that they have limitations.

As for the lawyer thing, i don't think it will ever come to that, but it's probably going to cost man-hours that they could do without.

Again, while i'm not eligible, i think them doing this is better than nothing at all. And while i hope their next competiton is international, i don't have a problem with this one.

 

[devilking125]

for worldwide availability please

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

I wonder if anyone actually thinks that if Woo/Sennheiser could make this or any contest international, they would intentionally not do so?