[Relayer71]

One of my faves and one of the most original rock bands ever!

These are must haves:

Selling England By The Pound - 1973
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway - 1974
A Trick Of The Tail - 1976
Duke - 1980

I also recommend:

Live - 1972
Foxtrot - 1972
Wind & Wuthering - 1976
...And Then There Were Three - 1978
The Archives Box Set Vol 1 (live version of Lamb in it's entirety!)

Selling England and The Lamb are Genesis' back to back masterpieces, in my opinion. A Trick Of The Tail is nowhere as great but is fine nonetheless and shows the first stage of the transition from Peter Gabriel to Phil Collins.

It's also interesting that Tail sounds more like the album that should have followed SEBTP - these two along with the album before (Foxtrot) share a lot of thematic and sonic similarities where The Lamb sounds nothing like any of their earlier work.

Lamb sounds timeless, like it could have been produced just last year. I believe Peter Gabriel had the most output on that one which is why it probably has its very distinctive sound but interestingly Gabriel's solo work would not even begin to catch up to Lamb's in quality (in my opinion) until his 4th album, which shows that 5 geniuses are better than one

Duke is also one of my favorite Genesis albums and it's the one where I feel Phil Collins came into his own as a singer. On the first Gabriel-less album (ATOTT) it seems he's trying to channel Gabriel on some songs. He improves over the next couple of albums and finds his own voice on Duke.

This is also the album that still has one good foot left in Progressive Rock as the band became more "pop" or "soft rock" on the albums after (though this change in sound really started on Wind And Wuthering (thank you Tony Banks! hehe).

It's at this point as well that Phil Collins becomes more of a straightforward drummer, playing less adventurously and impressively as before (though this started on Wind And Wuthering too). Compare his playing on anything from Selling England to anything on Duke or ABACAB.

This album is also more of a complete departure from their earlier sound than the previous one when guitarrist Steve Hacket left the group. Still, I don't like a couple of songs in the middle of the album (their hit, "Misunderstanding" is one of them) but the rest of the album definitely makes up for it.


And whatever you do stay away from Seconds Out - the sound isn't that great (even the remasters) - it just doesn't sound live at all, and the high end is a bit muffled. Also the Peter Gabriel era songs sung by Phil sound weak.

 

[Relayer71]

After reading the other replies I have to add:

Don't blame Phil ENTIRELY for the change in sound - watching and reading interviews of the band it is clear that the band (well, the trio at this point) CHOSE to write the way they did. Like most incredibly talented and creative individuals they didn't want to get boxed in and rather than repeat themselves and becoming stale they just decided to go in a completely different direction.

And it had just as much to do with Gabriel (and then Hacket) leaving and taking their very original sounds/ideas/writing styles with them as it did Phil taking over vocals and Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks now writing a lot of the music.

And Kudos to them, they hit on a successful formula for creating pop music that as "bad" as it may sound to some of their prog-rock fans was still good music (as opposed to Gentle Giant's embarrasing last 2 albums).

And I say that from an objective point of view - I don't particularly like "Follow You Follow Me", "Your Own Special Way", or "Misunderstanding" but you can't deny they're catchy, memorable pop songs.

In a strange way it's one of the reasons I like Genesis so much: with a few exceptions they never really repeated themselves, and there's a little something to like for everyone

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relayer71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif And whatever you do stay away from Seconds Out - the sound isn't that great (even the remasters) - it just doesn't sound live at all, and the high end is a bit muffled. Also the Peter Gabriel era songs sung by Phil sound weak.

I was with you...right up to here. In my opinion, Seconds Out is an excellent album, and one of my favorite live albums period!! I think it's the best of Phil Collins' attempt at replacing Peter Gabriel, prior to finding his own voice (which I like less than his ape-ing of PG). Phil's live version of "Supper's Ready" is IMHO far superior to the studio version with PG on vocals. I actually heard the last movement as part of a medley of old Genesis tunes in a 1986 concert in Detroit, and it gave me chills.

I do agree, BTW, about Duke...good album. I also have a bit of a soft spot for Genesis...between "Mama" and the two verses of "Home by the Sea", it's an old guilty pleasure of mine.

 

[Relayer71]

I guess it's from liking the Peter Gabriel era a whole lot more (and PG as a singer/lyricist) that I just can't listen to Phil doing Supper's Ready or the other PG songs on Seconds Out, hehe. Selling England and Lamb are my favorite albums

But you do agree about the sound not being that great, right?

I just prefer the sound of Genesis Live and Three Sides Live more, they sound livelier, more dynamic.

It's almost like Rush's Exit Stage Left (the CD, the DVD mix is much better) - good song selection, good performances but it just sounds too sterile/bland, not live enough.

 

[freeflier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relayer71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess it's from liking the Peter Gabriel era a whole lot more (and PG as a singer/lyricist) that I just can't listen to Phil doing Supper's Ready or the other PG songs on Seconds Out, hehe. Selling England and Lamb are my favorite albums But you do agree about the sound not being that great, right? I just prefer the sound of Genesis Live and Three Sides Live more, they sound livelier, more dynamic. It's almost like Rush's Exit Stage Left (the CD, the DVD mix is much better) - good song selection, good performances but it just sounds too sterile/bland, not live enough.

Oh man, please don't place Rush in the same paragraph as Genesis. I've seen them at least 3 times and musically they aren't in the same league .
Ps. The first time I saw them it was at my high school when they were just starting out (must have 1970 or 71).

 

[Febs]

Coincidentally, there is a program on VH1 Classic right now on the history of Genesis.

 

[BillC]

Funny, no mention so far of the Ray Wilson "era" of Genesis...

 

[Relayer71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeflier /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh man, please don't place Rush in the same paragraph as Genesis. I've seen them at least 3 times and musically they aren't in the same league .

I don't get it.... which band is so much above the other?

I think they're both awesome bands, well loved and respected by fans everywhere.

In terms of overall music I probably like Genesis' music a little better but again that's hard to say since their music is so different. Rush's Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures are in my favorite top 10 albums and Power Windows in my top 20.

But technically, as musicians I give the nod to Rush.

Lifeson's solos trump any of Hacket's solos. I'm not one for guitarrists taking solos on every song on every album but I never had a problem with Lifeson's. His solos are always musical, creative, moving, appropriate. Then again Hacket's classical guitar playing was clearly more advanced than anything Lifeson did. They're both amazing guitarrists though with very different styles so it doesn't matter.

Peart's BEST playing is more complex than anything on any Genesis album. But this is a tough one too since Phil Collins is to me one of the most musical and fluid drummers in rock music. Again, I think Neil Peart has the technical edge here and he is also a very musical drummer - but I love them both.

And Geddy Lee is a phenomenal bassist. And considering he plays those complex melodic runs AND sings??? That's musicianship. Mike Rutherford to me was overshadowed by an amazing keyboardist, charismatic singer, great drummer and unique guitarrist so his playing doesn't stand out much but he is also extremely talented.

Still, I love both bands.

 

[Dr.Love]

I noticed some Genesis DVD-A discs out recently if anyone is interested.

 

[tjohnusa]

<------Check out the avatar!

I am an old prog rock fan from the 70's. I also stop at W&W for my Genisis fixes. If you want to check out another great innovative band from that era check out Gentle Giant...start with Interview.

 

[Dr.Love]

Thanks for the suggestion man!

 

[freeflier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relayer71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Peart's BEST playing is more complex than anything on any Genesis album.

Therein lies the problem. Rush is an nothing more than a spectacular circus act.
Put simply, people often mistake impressive displays of physical dexterity as musically advanced skill. Nothing could be further from the truth. Think about it... a good typist displays amazing dexterity, control and skill but, is that music?? Likewise, Neil Peart has impressive chops, but nothing more. He doesn't have half "groove" of a dozen drummers I could name and Rush, as a whole, isn't even remotely as "musical" as Genesis.

 

[Riordan]

why do many who love the gabriel era overlook trespass? that's one hell of an underrated album, just a tiny notch below foxtrott, selling england and the lamb, imo, and much better than anything after those.

 

[pearljam5000]

Selling England by the Pound is the best album that i have ever heard.
i love it to death.
i actually loved it since i can remember myself,i'd say from the age of 6-8,i can't really remember.
now i'm 25 and still loving it as much as ever

 

[Relayer71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeflier /img/forum/go_quote.gif Therein lies the problem. Rush is an nothing more than a spectacular circus act. Put simply, people often mistake impressive displays of physical dexterity as musically advanced skill. Nothing could be further from the truth. Think about it... a good typist displays amazing dexterity, control and skill but, is that music?? Likewise, Neil Peart has impressive chops, but nothing more. He doesn't have half "groove" of a dozen drummers I could name and Rush, as a whole, isn't even remotely as "musical" as Genesis.

Obviously you don't like RUSH very much which is fine. But what do you base your judgement on? How many albums have you listened to?

Because I can admit they sounded sterile and mechanical on SOME ealier tracks and even whole albums (particularly Signals & Grace Under Pressure which I dislike very much). And they've never been too consistent.

BUT they have produced a few excellent albums and great songs in their long career (30 years and still going!).

And comparing Neil Peart's ability to that of a typist? Lol. Wow, just wow.

Genesis was also guilty of sounding unmusical and mechanical and worse, BLAND (especially the Phil Collins era), and occasionally, lame.

For "unmusical" listen to the ironically titled, "The Musical Box". I LOVE that track but it is far from musical in many ways. Listen to Tony Bank's soulless and monotonous organ halfway through the track while Steve Hacket lets loose a barrage of melodically disconnected and uninteresting notes. And "Squonk"? A 6 minute song that is repetetive and goes absolutely nowhwere.

For "bland" listen to "Your Own Special Way", "Alone Tonight", "For Absent Friends".,

For lame: "Misunderstanding", "Can-Utility And The Coastliners".

But that's like calling Sonic Youth unmusical because they deal more in dissonance and feedback or calling a number of ambient artists unmusical because they deal more in soundscapes and ambience.

Like I said, I love both Genesis and Rush, they're actually two of my all time faves. But they shouldn't even be compared, musically no two bands could be any farther apart than these.

Can I compare:

Kate Bush's "Hounds Of Love" to Metallica's "Master Of Puppets"?
Sonic Youth's "Evol" to 10,000 Maniac's "In My Tribe"?
Aimee Mann's "Lost In Space" to Emerson, Lake and Palmer's "Trilogy"?
Belle & Sebastian's "If You're Feeling Sinister" to Fugazi's "The Argument"?
Yo La Tengo's "I Can Feel The Heart Beating As One" to The Melvin's "Senile Animal"?

No, these are all completely different animals - yet I love them all.