[Shawnb]

You guys have an insane amount of patience to be waiting for 3 years with that much money invested. I can’t imagine waiting nearly that long...

Kinda don't have much of a choice. Throwing a tantrum only gets you so far, So all we can do really is wait. Refunds are never going to happen so all we can do is keep up hope that someday we may get everything.

I'm in for 7 products myself. Got 1, only 6 to go. I've all but given up on the HPA and PTP though.

 

[stuck limo]

As of now, Jarek is just a name and text. Jarek is "real" just because we choose him to be real, despite the fact that we have not met him and he has provided no proof of identity.

 

[bernardperu]

Haha. Good one, my Unknown friend!

Met LH Labs long time ago and that pic looks like me waiting for my items

 

[doctorjazz]

Looking dapper!

 

[Laseng]

Sorry about that. Send me the ticket #s and I'll work on this for you.

https://support.lhlabs.com/support/tickets/40777
Ticket #40777 from 25 Jun, 2017.

 

[stuck limo]

Had an interesting, lengthy discussion with a backer last night. Informal survey here: would you rather LH Labs provides dates of delivery (and possibly miss them), or would you rather we refrain from giving dates so we don't miss targets we possibly can't hit? And why?

Note: the answers of this survey won't necessarily mean our course of action either way. This is just a quick, informal survey for internal data and to gauge the community's general feelings.

 

[graham508]

June 30th, 2025 it is!!

+ 1

 

[spyder1]

Had an interesting, lengthy discussion with a backer last night. Informal survey here: would you rather LH Labs provides dates of delivery (and possibly miss them), or would you rather we refrain from giving dates so we don't miss targets we possibly can't hit? And why?

Note: the answers of this survey won't necessarily mean our course of action either way. This is just a quick, informal survey for internal data and to gauge the community's general feelings.

Jarek,

You might refrain from provoking a angry, and hostile response. It is better that LH Labs give infrequent updates, than give production timelines that will not be met.IMOP

**Best to produce and ship product.

 

[MikeyFresh]

Had an interesting, lengthy discussion with a backer last night. Informal survey here: would you rather LH Labs provides dates of delivery (and possibly miss them), or would you rather we refrain from giving dates so we don't miss targets we possibly can't hit? And why?

Note: the answers of this survey won't necessarily mean our course of action either way. This is just a quick, informal survey for internal data and to gauge the community's general feelings.

After 3 years time of doing nothing but missing every singe date, it is high time LH Labs both provide the backers with timelines and then abide by them.

There are no more excuses, deliver that message to @Larry Ho . No more delays, stories, or endless changes that kick the can down the road. Produce and ship product or the entire company is just a fraud. No one believes for one second all of the previous assertions of "we are working hard" and "things are now speeding up with production but will be slow at first" etc... no one is that grossly incompetent, those were outright lies.

Start telling the truth, and provide us with reasonable timelines for delivering the products that were backed years ago.

 

[miceblue]

Had an interesting, lengthy discussion with a backer last night. Informal survey here: would you rather LH Labs provides dates of delivery (and possibly miss them), or would you rather we refrain from giving dates so we don't miss targets we possibly can't hit? And why?

Note: the answers of this survey won't necessarily mean our course of action either way. This is just a quick, informal survey for internal data and to gauge the community's general feelings.

I'd say don't mention dates at all unless you know you can reach it. There's no point in giving false hope like what LH Labs has already been doing.

That being said, giving no updates about anything about the product at all is just as bad, which is exactly why people are so upset. No one from LH Labs says anything about the status of development and/or delivery except for the occasional update of "all blah hundred of PCBs failed."

 

[wingsounds13]

We all know that LH Labs time estimates are worse than worthless. Don't bother giving dates that everyone knows will be missed. I still feel that frequent updates with the smallest, simplest, most insignificant things that have ACTUALLY BEEN DONE would be well received. At least we could see that SOMETHING is being done.

Then again, with the aparent level of fiction that has come out of LH Labs over the last 45 months (that's only a few months shy of four YEARS) about the Wave, Source, Headphone Amp, Vi DAC and whatever other projects, and the Pulse DAC campaign still not completely fulfilled well over four years since its inception, it would be reasonable to assume that few would believe anything that is reported to us. Case in point is the recent report of the Wave beta boards and Source SE boards finally being pried from the hands of the factory, more than six months after they (or at least the Wave boards) were supposedly assembled. There are certainly doubts that these actually exist. If they do, why are they not at LH headquarters already, now about a week after being sprung from their captors. If it were me, I would have shipped them second day air immediately upun obtaining their release from the factory, even though this might have cost a horrendous amount of money, on the order of a hundred dollars or so. Larry himself has said that Time is Money, yet he is burning time like (and thus money) like trees in a forest fire. What???

Oh Well, maybe some day soon somebody will make a mistake and actually DO something. Until then, LH Labs appears to be a tax write-off scheme.

J.P.

 

[marflao]

Had an interesting, lengthy discussion with a backer last night. Informal survey here: would you rather LH Labs provides dates of delivery (and possibly miss them), or would you rather we refrain from giving dates so we don't miss targets we possibly can't hit? And why?

Note: the answers of this survey won't necessarily mean our course of action either way. This is just a quick, informal survey for internal data and to gauge the community's general feelings.

I would like to see another option: refund.
Since LHL thinks that only a few people are complaining on the different fora maybe you can convince Larry to give them their money back.
So those guys will be happy and Larry can be assured that he has the endorsement from the rest, the majority.

Maybe this is worth to have a second thought and put away your (LHL) non-refund-politic attitude.
Try to convince Larry that this is best for all.

Give him an example how to deal with unsatisfied customers.
For instance this (from Mike Moffat, Co-founder of Schiit, posted on a different forum) :

"Firing customers– it all started back at Theta Digital back in the 1980’s and was an unusual, in fact almost non existent occurrence back then - “The customer is always right”. Theta had a receptionist/customer service lady back then who was genuinely nice. (In that era, all biz was transacted by phone.) There was no way to conceal yourself completely from those you interacted with such as email or anonymous fora as we have today.

From time to time Azita (that was her name) would be reduced to tears when dealing with one dealer in particular, and occasional end users. I felt that there were not enough dollars per hour to pay anyone who considered it their right to be nasty enough to bring our Theta ladies to tears. (It was a different world back then.) It turned out that it was one dealer and about three or four customers were disrupting Theta’s business; a nasty client experience has a productivity hangover which persists after the fact. In all fairness, there were customers who could not deal with problems that were genuinely Theta’s fault without ire and dyspepsia, but in those cases it is up to us to make it right. It is just there were so many cases which were NOT our problem. We were NOT shrinks – that should have been the dealer’s responsibility. That is the only thing I miss about dealers from the Theta era.

So I had one dealer I had to fire and several end users to fire along the way – the customers were all refunded in full (sometimes way in after the fact of purchase), bypassing the dealers if necessary, and all equipment (including demos) was repurchased from the one dealer I had to get rid of. Guess what! Life at the Theta shop became much better for everyone. I made firing Theta customers who were problems policy and factory life greatly improved. This was the genus of practice at Schiit today.

This was before I realized I was dealing with Pareto’s principle. The 80/20 law. 20% of the clients are 80% of the customer service. The principle is also extensible; 4% are 96%, and 0.8% is 99.2%. It is the 0.8 percent who are the big burden – not just for us but for all other clients as well. It does consume resources which can ultimately affect prices. There are a very few who will never be happy and transfer that responsibility to their wives, their dwindling friends, or at the end of the road to customer service. Thank God such clients are rare."

Hope not you become like poor Azita.

 

[bernardperu]

Had an interesting, lengthy discussion with a backer last night. Informal survey here: would you rather LH Labs provides dates of delivery (and possibly miss them), or would you rather we refrain from giving dates so we don't miss targets we possibly can't hit? And why?

Note: the answers of this survey won't necessarily mean our course of action either way. This is just a quick, informal survey for internal data and to gauge the community's general feelings.

This is a very interesting post. LH Labs is basically telling us: "Sorry, guys, we are a dysfunctional firm and cannot remotely honor deadlines nor commitments. We suck and we know it" Answers by forum members to Jarek's questions seem to be acknowledging the former fact (just look at LH Labs' clients trust in your firm!). "We understand you suck, do not give us deadlines that suck." Personally, I cannot recall ever buying a product for which I would be willing to accept a non-delivery date.

So I want a delivery date. I am willing to listen to one that is very generous in favor of LH Labs.

Your final Note only adds to your surreal post, Jarek: "Note: the answers of this survey won't necessarily mean our course of action either way." haha

 

[bernardperu]

I would like to see another option: refund.
Since LHL thinks that only a few people are complaining on the different fora maybe you can convince Larry to give them their money back.
So those guys will be happy and Larry can be assured that he has the endorsement from the rest, the majority.

Maybe this is worth to have a second thought and put away your (LHL) non-refund-politic attitude.
Try to convince Larry that this is best for all.

I second this approach! I am willing to accept 75% of my money and consider it a full refund.

 

[Laseng]

This is a very interesting post. LH Labs is basically telling us: "Sorry, guys, we are a dysfunctional firm and cannot remotely honor deadlines nor commitments. We suck and we know it" Answers by forum members to Jarek's questions seem to be acknowledging the former fact (just look at LH Labs' clients trust in your firm!). "We understand you suck, do not give us deadlines that suck." Personally, I cannot recall ever buying a product for which I would be willing to accept a non-delivery date.

So I want a delivery date. I am willing to listen to one that is very generous in favor of LH Labs.

Your final Note only adds to your surreal post, Jarek: "Note: the answers of this survey won't necessarily mean our course of action either way." haha

Indiegogo may now call a collection agency if backers aren’t kept informed about delays.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/7/1...-backer-updates-may-call-collections-agencies