[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Satori No games coming...then why is the PC community so pissed off about future games being "stolen" from the PC and being released on the XBox first. I know Unreal Championship stirred up several people about it coming to the XBox first, I think Malice is another one. It seems game developers would prefer the XBox because of architecture being similar to the PC it would make porting it easier.

But you're talking about a handful of games, compared with the hundreds of games available for the other consoles. And those games in question are unfortunately better suited for PCs, anyways. Have you ever tried to play Unreal Tournament or Quake Arena using a joystick or console controller?

Note to Microsoft: you would have made more money off of Halo if you had released it for Mac/PC and just forgotten about the Xbox

Like dhwilkin said, while Nintendo has a lot of kids games, they also have tons of "adult" games (tens of times more than available for Xbox

).

BTW, I don't even own a console, so I have no loyalty to any box. I've played them all (friends, nephews, etc.), and they're all pretty amazing considering that I grew up on an Atari 2600

 

[M.Sensation]

From a developer standpoint, the GC is way easier to program for then either the Xbox or the PS2. PS2 is by far the worst with Xbox being on par with PC software. Seems like Nintendo really made this a focus of theirs as the N64 was extremely hard to program for and ultimately turned off a lot of 3rd party developers. Their now trying to gain them back (Squaresoft being one) and I believe will ultimately win them back. First generation games are never a good measure of how good a system is going to be so it's tough to make a decision now on which to get. One of the main reasons I got the GC was because it was cheaper then the rest; but now that they're the same price it'd be tough to make that decision again. If I were you, I'd just wait till the christmas season when second generation games are out for GC and Xbox to make a fair comparison.

 

[Vertigo-1]

I think buying any one of these consoles based on numbers or graphics is pretty pointless. Again it goes back to the quality of the games, the playability of the games, and the number of games. You could have an awesome spec'ed machine and have the game utterly blow because of poor programming, and it'd hardly be the console's fault.

In today's console world, games are where it's at. Not the console itself. Any of these consoles are aleady a quantum leap from the previous generation graphically that any one of these three can get the job done in the eye candy department. Games are what make or break a console.

 

[HD-5000]

if youre a resident evil fan, theres no choice but the gamecube. get the gamecube. microsoft is kicking themselves in the ass for sticking their noses where it doesnt belong.

 

[Snufkin]

Here's a couple of other things to keep in mind.

To use an Xbox online, you will have to pay a monthly fee on top of your current ISP charges.

To use a gamecube online, you will need to buy the $35 broadband or modem adaptor, and use your current ISP.


The Xbox has PC ports.
If you have a PC, please tell me what the point of having a console and a PC with the same games is?

The Gamecube has CONSOLE games. Please forgive me if I'm way off here, but I thought the point of buying a console was to play console games in a social environment where you friends can join in etc. Both the PS2 and GCN offer a large number of extremely good console games, the Xbox has crappy games most of which are either poor attempts at a console game, or PC ports.

Even Halo will be released on PC.


I'm assuming that most of the people who frequent these forums have a 'real' dvd player already, therefore buying a console because of the dvd feature built in is a complete waste of time.

Microsoft are currently losing HUGE amounts of money on the Xbox, this doesn't encourage developers to make games for them.

The only games that are "only on xbox" are also more than likely "crap" or "ported to/from PC now/later"

The gamecube is as much a "kiddy" console as the PS2 is.
Anyone who mistakes the GCN for kid-oriented needs to learn the difference between "fun" and "childish"

Take a look at super smash bros melee, at first glance it seems to be quite childish, but play it for a few minutes and you'll realise that the more serious a game is, the less fun it becomes.


and like vertigo-1 said, it's not the hardware, it's not the company, it's not the controller - it's the games.

Take a look at the N64, it wasn't a particularly amazing console, but it survived PURELY because of the games.

The gamecube is a VERY nice console AND it has great games now or for release (mmm metroid prime)

Personally I completely dismissed the xbox as a giant doorstop with a controller the size of a house and games worth buying that you could count on a butchers hand.

PS2 is older hardware, but it does have a very nice selection of games.

Gamecube is much more recent hardware. It's easy for developers to make games for it (unlike the PS2, which is notoriously hard to develop for) and it's a CONSOLE, not a toaster-microwave-dvdplayer-doorstop-console.

Bottom line, PS2 or GCN is the way to go, I bought a GCN (in case you couldn't tell

)

FYI, have a look at www.planetnintendo.com for some of the up coming releases etc.

edit, added: As for having a HDD in your console - big deal. All this does is encourage developers to rush out games because they know that they can patch them with the built in hdd. So what if you can store mp3s, so what if you don't have to buy a freaking $10 memory card now and then.. it really doesn't make for a compelling reason to buy a console. It does however make a good reason NOT to buy it - you're adding a component that can fail, the more components that can fail in your setup - the shorter it's life will be. And the one time that console falls off a stand while it's writing to the hard drive, you'll be rather unhappy.

 

[Satori]

Numbers were only one of the reasons. I like the games for the XBox and is playing first person shooters with a joystick I do that on the PC anyway. The mouse I do miss though. Features wise nothing can touch the XBox. As far as games PS2 has everyone beat by a large margin on that one, especially since it can play the original playstation games. Gamecube and the XBox are similar shape here, infact a lot of the titles for one is available for the other(minus the marquee games).

To really decide which one is best for ya, try renting them from Blockbuster. Or you could make a best guess and return it if you don't like it.

 

[Persiflage]

I'm seeing a lot of Xbox bashing goin' on in here; I think I'm gonna try and clear up a few misconceptions, and also ramble on about various things . . .

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Originally posted by Snufkin To use an Xbox online, you will have to pay a monthly fee on top of your current ISP charges.

But it seems that the Xbox will still have the cheapest online service. I'm not sure what / how many games are included, but they've announced that they'll be selling the online kit (which includes a headset communications device that will function inside all their games, something that no one else is doing), a game (something cheapish, I forget which one), and a year of the online service, all for $50.

However, not all is good with MS's online plans. They're apparently not letting anyone create online games that do not use the MS servers, and EA took offense to that, and recently said that they were going to make any online games for the Xbox. I think that MS's heavy handed tactics are going to hurt them a lot, especially when they NEED all of the third party support they can get (and they're not getting a lot).

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The Xbox has PC ports. If you have a PC, please tell me what the point of having a console and a PC with the same games is?

I have a computer and an Xbox. My computer (just 3 years old now) is no longer able to play some of the new games, like Morrowind. The Xbox can. I could upgrade my PC for around $700 and get it into tip top shape again, but the Xbox can delay that.

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The only games that are "only on xbox" are also more than likely "crap" or "ported to/from PC now/later"

Here's a few I can think of off the top of my head:

Project Ego
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Shen Mue 2 and 3
Ninja Gaiden

Quote:

edit, added: As for having a HDD in your console - big deal. All this does is encourage developers to rush out games because they know that they can patch them with the built in hdd. So what if you can store mp3s, so what if you don't have to buy a freaking $10 memory card now and then.. it really doesn't make for a compelling reason to buy a console. It does however make a good reason NOT to buy it - you're adding a component that can fail, the more components that can fail in your setup - the shorter it's life will be. And the one time that console falls off a stand while it's writing to the hard drive, you'll be rather unhappy.

There's a reason that Project Ego is Xbox only -- you need a hard drive to create such an immersive world. Also, check out the recently announced Blinx, it has some incredible sounding features, for which a hard drive is required (from ign):

Read it now and believe it -- Blinx is a revolutionary platformer. Not just for the platform genre (he's more than just a cat with vacuum cleaner and his name isn't Luigi), but for videogames as we know them. Blinx takes the Xbox hard drive and more or less makes it function like a Tivo or Ultimate TV system. Play is recorded using around 200 megs of hard drive space. When you die, the game rewinds in front of your eyes to a point where you can start again. That's not all Blinx can do, though.

Players will be able to fast forward, record, rewind, and stop time to assist them in their quest. For example, a barrel falls off a roof. You pause the game, then hop on the barrel and rewind the game, allowing you to ride the barrel to the top of the roof from where it had fallen. The title character in Blinx is not affected by the shifts in time, and can move independent of the affected environment.

I don't know if it'll work well or not, but it's still something exciting and new that would be IMPOSSIBLE without a hard drive. Also the harddrive prevents an add-on cost later for when playing online games. A major barrier (as I see it anyway) to Final Fantasy XI on the PS2 is the fact that the network adaptor / hard drive attachment that is required to play costs around $150.

I'm fascinated by Sega's current approach to the console wars. They're making exciting exclusives for all three of the competitors. I wish I could have all 3 consoles.

Personally, I think the best console bet right now is the PS2. Sony's overwhelming market share in the console market seems to indicate that the PS2 will get a large number of exclusives and probably enjoy the longest life out of the 3 current consoles. Remember the games are what drive the system, and right now the PS2 just seems to be where the greatest number of interesting exclusives end up.

 

[Persiflage]

Quote:

Originally posted by M.Sensation One of the main reasons I got the GC was because it was cheaper then the rest; but now that they're the same price it'd be tough to make that decision again.

Actually, Nintendo just announced they are lowering the price to $150, effective tomorrow (tuesday). All this competition is great for the consumer.

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories...866374,00.html

 

[Snufkin]

Quote:

But it seems that the Xbox will still have the cheapest online service. I'm not sure what / how many games are included, but they've announced that they'll be selling the online kit (which includes a headset communications device that will function inside all their games, something that no one else is doing), a game (something cheapish, I forget which one), and a year of the online service, all for $50.

No.

You buy your $35 gamecube broadband or narrowband adaptor and you use it with your CURRENT ISP.
Nintendo are NOT charging developers for an online service, they are NOT limiting games to their online service and they are NOT charging a monthly fee to play online.
Please explain to me how that makes the xbox "the cheapest online service" I thought that $0 per month was less than $10 per month.. maybe I'm just crazy.

Quote:

Here's a few I can think of off the top of my head: Project Ego Panzer Dragoon Orta Shen Mue 2 and 3 Ninja Gaiden

Ok, firstly - are you sure they will -all- be "Only on Xbox" titles?
Second - so far all the "wait until X comes out" titles I've seen have disappeared off the radar as soon as they were released - bloodwake anyone? That was supposed to be the "BEST GAME EVAR" and it's crap.
I'm not saying the above list will be crap, the thing is there are very few titles that are console specific to the Xbox and/or worth having an Xbox for.

Quote:

I have a computer and an Xbox. My computer (just 3 years old now) is no longer able to play some of the new games, like Morrowind. The Xbox can. I could upgrade my PC for around $700 and get it into tip top shape again, but the Xbox can delay that.

Exactly, you can upgrade your computer and have something that's probably going to get all the Xbox titles, run them better than the xbox, have a longer life, more options for controllers/adaptors/dvds/hard drives/modems/internet etc etc AND have more games than the Xbox will ever have.

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There's a reason that Project Ego is Xbox only -- you need a hard drive to create such an immersive world.

IMHO having a hdd in your console is NOT a 100% positive thing.
Microsoft are ENCOURAGING people to release buggy games. It means that developers can have the attitude of "oh well, if we stuff it up, we can always patch it later" - without the hdd, you can't have this attitude, you have to get the game right first time or suffer the wrath of gamers worldwide.

Quote:

Personally, I think the best console bet right now is the PS2. Sony's overwhelming market share in the console market seems to indicate that the PS2 will get a large number of exclusives and probably enjoy the longest life out of the 3 current consoles. Remember the games are what drive the system, and right now the PS2 just seems to be where the greatest number of interesting exclusives end up.

Agreed!
However, I think the console with the brightest future when it comes to GAMES (and that's what it's all about) is the gamecube.
Nintendo learnt from their mistakes with the N64 (hard to develop for, expensive cartridge system etc) and reversed their thinking. It's now the EASIEST console to program for, has excellent hardware and is 100% console.


Ok, now that I'm done flaming the Xbox, here's what I'd buy the Xbox for; It's 1/3 console 1/3 dvd player 1/3 computer

Hi, I'd like to buy a console, and I also need a dvd player - I don't have a computer/have an old and can't really afford to buy one but I'd like to be able to play online as well.

Here's why I bought a gamecube; It's a great console.
Hi, I'd like a console that has or will have stacks of fun games that will only be available on console, I don't want to have the same games on my pc as I do with my console as I already have a high-end pc, it'd be great to play stuff online and I don't need a dvd player.

Here's why I'd buy a ps2; It's a console/dvd player.
Hi, I'd like a console that also plays dvds, I'm not fussed about 'the best' graphics, but I want lots of games now - I can't wait! Also, a friend has a ps1 that I can borrow games from.


etc, you get the idea.

I can understand why people would buy the Xbox, but when people rave on about how much "better" it is in every way, or faster, or has much better graphics than any other console, or has a hdd etc it bugs me - these are NOT reasons to buy a console, and most of them are slightly misleading anyway.

There is no "best" console, it's just like headphones people - best is in the eye of the beholder

 

[Persiflage]

Quote:

Originally posted by Snufkin No. You buy your $35 gamecube broadband or narrowband adaptor and you use it with your CURRENT ISP. Nintendo are NOT charging developers for an online service, they are NOT limiting games to their online service and they are NOT charging a monthly fee to play online. Please explain to me how that makes the xbox "the cheapest online service" I thought that $0 per month was less than $10 per month.. maybe I'm just crazy.

I'm not exactly sure how it's gonna work with either service. I'm not sure if the Xbox subscription package includes games, or if it's just the first charge to access their servers, and then you have to pay on a per month charge on a game-by-game basis. Also, I'd guess that the various parties that do the Nintendo online stuff aren't going to do it for free. I think we'll have to wait and see. I'd guess they'll both end up being competitive. I guess my first statement was a bit rash. I didn't know that the Gamecube online adapter had been priced so cheaply.

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Ok, firstly - are you sure they will -all- be "Only on Xbox" titles? Second - so far all the "wait until X comes out" titles I've seen have disappeared off the radar as soon as they were released - bloodwake anyone? That was supposed to be the "BEST GAME EVAR" and it's crap. I'm not saying the above list will be crap, the thing is there are very few titles that are console specific to the Xbox and/or worth having an Xbox for.

Never heard of Bloodwake. I'm fairly sure all of those games will be exclusives. Not 100% sure on all of them. Ninja Gaiden has only just been mentioned today or so.

Quote:

Exactly, you can upgrade your computer and have something that's probably going to get all the Xbox titles, run them better than the xbox, have a longer life, more options for controllers/adaptors/dvds/hard drives/modems/internet etc etc AND have more games than the Xbox will ever have.

But the Xbox is a heck of a lot cheaper than constantly upgrading your computer. For the price of a GeForce 4 TI 4200, you get your entire system. Certainly the PC is more flexible, but I think that the area where it stands out the most are the muliplayer and User-Created mods. One of the reasons I might just wait until I can upgrade my PC to play Morrowind is the impressive area of tools that it's supposed to have, and all of the player-created content that I would deny myself if I was confined to the Xbox version.

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IMHO having a hdd in your console is NOT a 100% positive thing. Microsoft are ENCOURAGING people to release buggy games. It means that developers can have the attitude of "oh well, if we stuff it up, we can always patch it later" - without the hdd, you can't have this attitude, you have to get the game right first time or suffer the wrath of gamers worldwide.

I'm sure MS is not encouraging people to release buggy games. That'd be kinda silly. In fact, I'd guess that they are dreading the day that some company decides to release a patch for an Xbox game, as that'd significantly hurt the Xbox reputation. The only use of the HD for updating games that I've heard of so far has been the benign addition made to DOA3 that added more costumes for the characters. I could be wrong in this though, I just haven't heard of any other use so far.

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Agreed! However, I think the console with the brightest future when it comes to GAMES (and that's what it's all about) is the gamecube. Nintendo learnt from their mistakes with the N64 (hard to develop for, expensive cartridge system etc) and reversed their thinking. It's now the EASIEST console to program for, has excellent hardware and is 100% console.

Personally, I'm still liking the PS2 overall. My game playing habits (besides for the strategy realm, where the PC dominates) are very similar to Vertigo's: Japanese style RPGs and fighting games, and right now the PS2's got those two areas covered.

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There is no "best" console, it's just like headphones people - best is in the eye of the beholder

Certainly can't argue with that one. And that's why it's great that we've got three guys duking it out.

 

[Snufkin]

Quote:

I'm sure MS is not encouraging people to release buggy games. That'd be kinda silly. In fact, I'd guess that they are dreading the day that some company decides to release a patch for an Xbox game, as that'd significantly hurt the Xbox reputation. The only use of the HD for updating games that I've heard of so far has been the benign addition made to DOA3 that added more costumes for the characters. I could be wrong in this though, I just haven't heard of any other use so far.

Ok, perhaps not directly - but publishing houses put more and more pressure on their developers to release titles, with a hdd the publishing house will be able to say "just release it as is, we will patch it later"
Another nasty thing to think about is the possibility of a virus on the Xbox - download latest patch off the net - bam, xbox goes byebye. I can just see the look on customers faces when they're told they have to buy a virus scanner for their freakin console.

Quote:

Certainly can't argue with that one. And that's why it's great that we've got three guys duking it out.

And that's why people need to buy the console that best suits their tastes/needs, not which one has "TEH BESTEST GRAPHICS EVAR AND HALO ROCKS l337!!!!" (or for that matter "TEH PS2 IS TEH BESTEST CONSOLE EVAR AND U R A LOOSER IF U GET TEH OTHER OENS")

I did a lot of thinking about which console to buy, and the one thing that kept popping into my head was "the games man, the games... fun, fun and more fun, that's where it's all at" - that's exactly what the GCN is all about, but it doesn't sacrifice any console-oriented capabilities to deliver - great controller, great connection options etc

 

[Flumpus]

Quote:

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's a few I can think of off the top of my head: Project Ego Panzer Dragoon Orta Shen Mue 2 and 3 Ninja Gaiden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, firstly - are you sure they will -all- be "Only on Xbox" titles? Second - so far all the "wait until X comes out" titles I've seen have disappeared off the radar as soon as they were released - bloodwake anyone? That was supposed to be the "BEST GAME EVAR" and it's crap. I'm not saying the above list will be crap, the thing is there are very few titles that are console specific to the Xbox and/or worth having an Xbox for.

This is what I'm talkin' about... Sega will be the one to make me buy an XBox, and Panzer Dragoon might do it. However, next generation, watch Sega surprise us all with some nice hardware under our Christmas trees, and a whole bunch of exclusives that only Nintendo can rival

BTW, look at these and tell me this isn't a game worth buyin' an XBox for

 

[Snufkin]

Sega are out of the console business - they pretty much have no intention of making another console.
However, they are working very closely with Nintendo on some games.
Nintendo and Sega together spells a lot of fun

 

[Flumpus]

I've read a few interviews with Sega reps where they admitted that they intend to get back in the hardware market... I think it'll happen sooner or later. Maybe not next generation, but soon

 

[mbriant]

Well, I spent 2 hours at Futureshop yesterday trying out the demo games for all 3 consoles. The opinions/suggestions/observations made by everyone in this thread, all seem accurate from what I saw. All three consoles offer great graphics (depending on the game) and all have their strengths and weaknesses.

I kept changing my mind as to which system to get. Finally, I bit the bullet and decided to go against general opinion, and opted for the XBox. The graphics on Halo and Dead Or Alive really impressed me.

I realize the hardrive is another thing that can break, but it does make saving games easy.

The bottom line is that because I've never owned a console, I have no history or nostalgic attachment to any of the games or systems or controllers from the past. As much as Microsoft has pissed me off over the years, they've also done a lot of things right. I'm hoping/betting, that future game releases for the XBox (Microsoft is claiming they'll have a total of 200 titles available by next Christmas) will take better advantage of the machine's capabilities.

And besides, if I find I get hooked on console gaming, I can always buy a different console to expand game selection.

The XBox comes with a single large controller, but I purchased the smaller controller as well. I've spent several hours now with both, and although the large controller works fine, the smaller one feels more comfortable, with all the buttons within easy reach. I'll likely be getting 2 more small controllers.

In addition to Halo and Dead or Alive, I also picked up RallySport Challenge, Munch's Oddysee, and The Simpsons Road Rage. I guess I'm easy to impress, because I'm really enjoying all of them. As a total consol gaming newbie, these should keep me busy for quite a while. The graphics, run through an SVideo cable, are amazing. Things have certainly come a long way since Pong.

Thanks again for all the advice. Even though it seems I ignored the majority of people here, it doesn't necessarily mean I disagree with what you've said. It was a tough decision to make.