Fundamental Understanding of Interconnect, Power Cable and Wave Propagation

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif Code: [left]ElementSymbol #Conductivity ============================================ ArsenicAs330.035[/left]

Finally! Real justification to use the phrase "jaw dropping" in audio!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Finally! Real justification to use the phrase "jaw dropping" in audio!

but it still conducts really bad.

It really would be a cable to die for, or it is a killer system.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Finally! Real justification to use the phrase "jaw dropping" in audio!

Arsenic (As) is generally used as an n-type dopant for Si or Ge in MOS/CMOS substrate(npn/pnp). Combining As with the semiconductor group, they are great conductor. Although As in its natural form is no good.

 

[yo2tup2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanMedia /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very interesting use of testers in developing audio components: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...;topicseen#new

 

[mlhm5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif also known as circular reasoning and by the Latin name petitio principii, is an informal fallacy found in many attempts at logical arguments. An argument which begs the question is one in which a premise presupposes the conclusion in some way. Such an argument is valid in the sense in which logicians use that term, yet provides no reason at all to believe its conclusion. Today, the phrase is also frequently seen in a different usage with the meaning "raise the question."

Correct:

The fallacy of assuming in the premise of an argument, what you want to prove in the conclusion i.e. there is a difference between cables.

 

[Sovkiller]

Don't forget the most important part of the perception of any difference, and that nobody should forget, as without these ones, you can read and post all you want, and it will be completelly irrelevant:

Sorry I couldn't resist...

Here we go again...

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlhm5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The fallacy of assuming in the premise of an argument, what you want to prove in the conclusion . . . .

Yes, indeed, this is an error in logical reasoning seen in posts from both sides of the debate.

For me though, my favorite principal is "intrudias trolli cable threadi," i.e., the principal that certain anti-cable folks feel compelled to troll this forum and intrude on every thread with their comments about cables, whether they are really germane to the discussion or not.

 

[Happy Camper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, indeed, this is an error in logical reasoning seen in posts from both sides of the debate. For me though, my favorite principal is "intrudias trolli cable threadi," i.e., the principal that certain anti-cable folks feel compelled to troll this forum and intrude on every thread with their comments about cables, whether they are really germane to the discussion or not.

The flip side to this is that folk learning the science of audio understand why they have to experiment with cables to find the need for their setup. Just to read that statement a week ago, I would have been suspect of snake oil. I now have answers to some of these noncommiting statements. I have a specialist willing to perform the labwork to explain the differences and help me in my direction. For the thousands who have been the R & D for the hobby, I salute you. Without you, we would still be using records and tube systems

.

Unfortunately, lots of folks buy based on what they read here. They don't want to learn how to design cables. They want the convenience of buying someone else's labwork. Without doing the labwork, you can't determine value. But then, you have to build your system first in order to know what cable you need. I forgot this.

Why don't some of this stuff get put into a sticky on cables? Explain what these advanced technologies aim to overcome to help the novice understand the challanges audio science face. The hardest part of any marriage of technologies (analog/digital, discrete/SS) are the interfaces (communications).

I think the sticky reading should be required to ask a question on a technical forum. It would save some of the ignorant attitudes that start the WWF bouts. They are going to believe their friends before good advice here, initially anyway. The only way to be helped is to be educated.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, indeed, this is an error in logical reasoning seen in posts from both sides of the debate. For me though, my favorite principal is "intrudias trolli cable threadi," i.e., the principal that certain anti-cable folks feel compelled to troll this forum and intrude on every thread with their comments about cables, whether they are really germane to the discussion or not.

Yes, as far as i know the TS wanted a thread with general info on cables and techniques about cables. Not a discussion thread!

Here you can look up techniques used in cables or theories about cables, materials used etc.weather you believe them or not! This is in the eye of the beholder or in this case, the eye of the reader!

 

[Sovkiller]

Nevermind...I think that you have found how the water goes inside the coconut...

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, as far as i know the TS wanted a thread with general info on cables and techniques about cables. Not a discussion thread! Here you can look up techniques used in cables or theories about cables, materials used etc.weather you believe them or not!

That is exactly what I understood, and that's why I posted the info on elements and conductivity.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is exactly what I understood, and that's why I posted the info on elements and conductivity.

Well, sure, the elements are different. But you have to demonstrate how those differences affect the performance of a cable, and further, whether there is an audible difference.

I know DBT is verboten, but it seems like people can only tell the difference between cables if they can visually see the brand of the cable.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, sure, the elements are different. But you have to demonstrate how those differences affect the performance of a cable, and further, whether there is an audible difference. I know DBT is verboten, but it seems like people can only tell the difference between cables if they can visually see the brand of the cable.

please reread the OP and look at the equations again.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Resistance is probably the smallest factor, because cables use good conductors (copper and silver).

Actually, resistance is as influential a factor as capacitance and inductance...the three work together. However, the key factor in controlling resistance isn't conductor material, it's wire gauge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline ...that's why silvercables or silver plated copper have extended highs, less frequency loss/better conductivity.

Be careful making assumptions like this about conductor material...a light gauge silver wire can have greater resistance than a heavy gauge copper wire. To actually see the conductivity gains shown in the charts posted earlier in this thread the gauge has to be the same between the copper & silver wire, something you almost never see in commercial cables because of the dramatic cost difference between the two metals.

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cables... inductance: 0,1 to 0,6PF = 600% capacitance from 6 to 50MH. = 833% amps THD: 0,02 to 0,0018 difference of 111%

I mentioned this when you quoted this same thing in another thread, but the difference between .02 and .0018 is NOT 111%.