[ZeNmAc]

I've had my NE-7M's for a while now.  This post might seem like a rant, but it's all been building up for some time.  I need all your opinions.

 
...So IEM's never seem to work out for me for some reason.  There are a couple of problems that I always seem to have, that are the same between the 3 different IEM's I've owned.  I started out with some sony ex-51lp, upgraded to some altec lansing uhp336 (super.fi 3 basically) and returned those quickly to finally get the NE-7M's I have now.  Here are the problems I have.
 
I can't help it, no matter how I wear them there is a terrible peak in the mids.  Some bands are ok since there is little musical content in that part of the spectrum, but for others it totally destroys the music.  For example, we were going over to some friends house a few weeks ago (my family and I) and on the way I listened to a dream theater album (scenes from a memory) with my ne7m's and my ipod 5.5G.  The vocals are somewhat high, so they are in the range of the peak I was describing.  I had to turn down the volume because the mids were so harsh.  That all added up to a mediocre listening experience.  I lost the bass and treble, and missed a lot of musical content.  I couldn't really follow all the lyrics, and lost track of the (uh...story for lack of a better term) a little over half way through.  Keep in mind, I was sitting in the car, so I had nothing else to do besides focus on the music (I admit, I'm not the best at getting lyrics, but I usually can get them with better headphones).  I was having this problem before, so I bought some shure silicon E2C tips.  I'm using the medium ones.  I admit they are very nice, much much better than stock silicon ones, but they still experience the midrange problems I was having before with both foam and silicon tips.  In comparison to my older iems, the sonys had so little mids and so much bass the peak wasn't a problem.  But IIRC there still was a problem with the mids when I eq'd down the bass.  The uhp336 were a million times worse than either of the other two.  I returned them because in order to hear bass, midbass, and treble I needed an insane eq and it still was an almost excruciating experience.
 
On a side note, I've tried using the rockbox eq, but I haven't pinned down the peak(s) yet, so I've never been able to completely fix the problem that way.  Not to mention rockbox occasionally refuses to start up making me have to take forever trying to get my ipod to reset.  Rockbox also doesn't load album art.  I used to use it, but because of those issues I've mostly stopped using it.
 
Ok, so maybe that's just a coincidence and all of those IEM's have terrible mids (which from what I've read here, either nobody else notices it, or nobody else has the same problem with the ne7m's).  But that's not all.  I can never seem to get a good seal.  Even if I do, it's usually uneven which annoys the heck out of me.  It seems to be that I can't get the left side to stay in.  It always slips out.  For a while I was using foam ear tips which were a little better IIRC, but they still were hard to get in straight.  I usually end up messing with the left side until I'm done listening.  I usually get the right one in fine on the first or second try.  Then I get the left one in ok, but it sounds different, so I have to straighten it, and it never goes in right.  The shure ear tips are especially picky in that area since they create such a good seal that if you insert them too far, or pull them out a little, the air pressure messes up the drivers, so I have to find the exact right place where they're just resting inside my ear canals.  I can never get a good deep insertion with those.  And then if I ever move my head there's a good chance one of them will slip.  So what I ended up doing on my aforementioned car ride was sitting perfectly still with my head slightly leaning to the right side so the left IEM wouldn't slip out.  I also put part of the cable under the seat belt shoulder strap with some slack to take tension off the IEM's.  I had to sit in that position fixing the left IEM every couple minutes for the whole drive.
 
Sometimes all this doesn't bother me, but occasionally it just leaves me frustrated because I know just how good the ne-7m have the potential to sound.  The only solution I can see is buying some expensive IEM's and getting custom molds which may or may not improve my experience and which I won't be able to afford any time soon.  (Not that I don't have the money, I just have other priorities right now).  Am I really doomed to only be able to enjoy headphones?  It's really frustrating, because it takes a second to put on my headphones and I have just as good a seal as ever before with virtually no midrange issues.  Now I know the M50's cost a lot more, but seriously...aren't headphones supposed to have problems with resonance in the ear canal, and IEM's not?  Even on my old cheap headphones I didn't have as much of an issue with this.
 
Any suggestions?  Am I just using too cheap IEM's?  Are my ear canals really that uneven?
 
I apologize for the long post.  I appreciate any comments you have.  Thanks in advance, and thank you for taking the time to read this.

 

[warp08]

It is possible that your ear canals are uneven or of a unique shape.  If that's the case, probably no universal IEM will be able to completely solve that problem and you may even encounter challenges with the most expensive customs.  
 
The best fitting universals for me were the Westone UM1s and 3s using Comply-style tips, definitely not the silicone ones.  You can try even combining two different size/length ones until you find the right combination, if there is one.  I have spent probably close to $125 on different tips until I got fed up with the whole universal IEM thing and went the custom route and never looked back.
 
You may want to find your nearest audiologist and gets some earmolds made just to get an idea about the shape of your ear canals and the size/length of the tips that may work until you can afford to actually place an order for a custom IEM.
 
I hope this helps.
 

 

[koonhua90]

@ OP you can either go custom, or get custom mold for your IEM. Another way which is worth to try it to try out some small tips that offer very deep insertion. That way, the outer ear part should not affect the fit or sound by much.

 

[terradrive]

IEMs have just the same resonance problems like headphones, that's one of the reason SA6 have tunable setting and they did mentioned about the resonance problem in their website.
 
So for the terrible peak in the mids, you can try fixing it by applying parametric equalizer processing to the music file itself through foobar. Run foobar with the DSP plugin for parametric equalizer, then even out the peaks using the equalizer. After that use foobar's "convert to" feature to apply the DSP processing into the music file and transfer it to your DAP.
 
By doing this you can avoid the lesser configurable graphic equalizers on the DAP and be able to run the DAP with flat equalizer setting. This might not be the best solution but I think it's worth trying it out.

 

[playingwithfire]

You should get the UM3X!
 
Just kidding.
 
Try some U shaped IEM like the Triple Fi with recessed mids? I personally can't stand them but your hearing might balance this whole recessed mid out.

 

[Alec E]

None of your complaints seem unusual to me.  I think you're just realizing that earphones aren't as good as headphones, a universal truth that you can expect to find acknowledged anywhere except, understandably, in an earphones-centric subforum. 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeNmAc /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
  Even on my old cheap headphones I didn't have as much of an issue with this.
 
Any suggestions?  Am I just using too cheap IEM's?  Are my ear canals really that uneven?

Remember, because IEM's are more of a straight shot to your ears/brain (Ety) the worse the IEM is tuned the greater that will be amplified vs. a headphone.  So an accurate, proper design is probably even more critical to IEM's than headphones, less margin for error.  If you are that critical of your sound then perhaps you need to make more of an investment in better IEM's or ditch them altogether.  Don't forget, most manufacturers don't target accuracy but a sound signature they believe will please their target audience.  Discerning listeners are more likely to discern sound and are willing to pay for it, companies know this.  I think rolling through 3 lower end IEM's and being unhappy about the SQ of IEM's in general is a poor conclusion to make.  Many IEM users here are big headphone guys w/ high end Senns, Grados, ATs, AKGs, Denons, etc. 

 
Quote:

None of your complaints seem unusual to me.  I think you're just realizing that earphones aren't as good as headphones, a universal truth that you can expect to find acknowledged anywhere except, understandably, in an earphones-centric subforum. 

 
The only universal truth I seem to note from your posts Alec is that you know and have experienced everything.  I bow down before you omniscience, I'm selling my IEM's as we speak. 
 

 

[koonhua90]

@ OP, you should decide based on your preference. Headphones are more suitable for indoor listening, while IEMs are for the go. And one thing I agree with Anaxilus, is that headphone is not necessarily better than IEM. I am quoting someone here, but high end IEMs easily make 'mincemeat' out of lousy headphones. Some big cans require really good amplification to bring out their best, but IEM usually are easier to drive. 
 
Before you make any conclusion, you should try out some higher end IEMs before buying them. Find one that suits you, in terms of sound signature and fit. I have not heard of NE-7M, but regarding the UHP 336 that my friend has, it's quite an average phone. You need to have phones from different price spectrum that has different performance before making an informed conclusion.

 

[terradrive]

His problem lie on the resonance, apparently the NE-7M + his ear canal aren't a good combo. Remember every person's ear is different so the resonance (the peak in frequency spectrum) lies in different frequency.

 

[Alec E]

Quote:

The only universal truth I seem to note from your posts Alec is that you know and have experienced everything.  I bow down before you omniscience, I'm selling my IEM's as we speak. 
 

I'm sorry that some opinion of mine from the past has preoccupied you; but if you're going to arbitrarily insult someone, you could at least back up your insult with some evidence.  If I have ever claimed broad knowledge about anything at all on this forum, give us all the opportunity to glare at the offending post.  (I doubt there really is one, but on the other hand, I won't be surprised if you have an "Alec E" file featuring some line-straddling example.)  This would of course constitute thread-hijacking, but I'm guessing that won't be an issue for you.
 
Also, the OP just doesn't like the pitfalls and shortcomings of canalphones (or "IEM's," as we inaccurately and pretentiously call them here).  Most musicians also have a strong preference for headphones over earphones, in my sub-omniscient experience.  I am making the point that the preference is nothing to be bothered about, or to assume deformity or hearing issues because of.  His (or her) complaints mirror some of my own.

 

[MayaTlab]

Quote:

I'm sorry that some opinion of mine from the past has preoccupied you; but if you're going to arbitrarily insult someone, you could at least back up your insult with some evidence. 

I'd like to stay out of that headphones vs. earphones debate, but I feel it seems necessary to remind you that even if it might be the lowest and feeblest form of wit, sarcasm does not intrinsically constitute an insult.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 I think you're just realizing that earphones aren't as good as headphones, a universal truth that you can expect to find acknowledged anywhere except, understandably, in an earphones-centric subforum. 

 
I don't need an efile to respond to what you claimed only a few posts ago.  It's just consistent from a few other posts I've seen from you about a thread topic or phone being arbitrarily labeled by you as inferior based on a one line blurb.  The OP remarks on experience w/ 3 lower end IEMs and you throw out your overly critical universal generalization in typical Alec E fashion.  I take no offense in what you say, I could care less.  My problem is a statement like yours that would lead the OP to think IEM's are a worthless option.
 
As for musicians prefering headphones, I have yet to recall anyone in recent memory using one on stage over an IEM.  There are many reasons people choose a headphone or IEM that have nothing to do w/ SQ.

 

[Alec E]

Quote:

 
I don't need an efile to respond to what you claimed only a few posts ago.  It's just consistent from a few other posts I've seen from you about a thread topic or phone being arbitrarily labeled by you as inferior based on a one line blurb.  The OP remarks on experience w/ 3 lower end IEMs and you throw out your overly critical universal generalization in typical Alec E fashion.  I take no offense in what you say, I could care less.  My problem is a statement like yours that would lead the OP to think IEM's are a worthless option.
 
As for musicians prefering headphones, I have yet to recall anyone in recent memory using one on stage over an IEM.  There are many reasons people choose a headphone or IEM that have nothing to do w/ SQ.

 
What I "claimed only a few posts ago"?  It was now two posts ago that I claimed that most serious listeners, excepting the followers of a subforum about earphones, will rate good circumaural headphones above good earphones, particularly if the advantage of portability is removed from the equation.  I cannot imagine that this is really up for debate.  I recall that Monster's promotional material for one or another of their Pro series featured at least two quotations from prominent musicians in which these people dismissed most earphones as being inferior to headphones, before calling the MTP series an exception.
 
If you disagree, fine.  Why insult someone however?  It reflects only on yourself.
 
I've made "a few other posts...  about a thread topic or phone being arbitrarily labeled by (me) as inferior based on a one line blurb"?  Can you explain what you mean?  Your sentence makes very little sense to me.  I can't recall ever judging anything based on a "blurb," if that's what you're trying to say.
 
You write that I've made an "overly critical universal generalization."  I'm afraid I'm going to have to again plead an inability to understand you.  What is the criteria for when an opinion becomes "overly critical"?  What is "universal generalization"?
 
As far as this:  "My problem is a statement like yours that would lead the OP to think IEM's are a worthless option."  The OP is obviously a thoughtful consumer, and likely isn't going to be as suggestible as you're suggesting he or she may be.  Aside from my own post, no advice has yet been given except:  spend more money.  This is, unfortunately, often the only advice that Head-Fiers have to offer.  I have simply suggested that the OP's frustration with the fit and sound quality (especially relative to price) of canalphones is not so unusual outside the bounds of this subforum, and that it therefore shouldn't frustrate or surprise quite so much.  I have simply said:  consider that you're in a bit of a cocoon, at the moment.
 
"As for musicians prefering headphones, I have yet to recall anyone in recent memory using one on stage over an IEM."  Are you only pretending to misunderstand me?  Obviously I was not talking about on-stage use.  The OP is presumably not discussing on-stage usage either.  You're going to quite a lot of trouble to disagree with me.  
 
As for your remark about "typical Alec E fashion," I would challenge you again to link to a post in which I make a judgment of a product with which I've had no first hand experience.  I have owned the Triple.fi 10 Pro, the Monster Turbine Pro Copper, the Westone 3, the Shure SE530, the Future Sonics Atrio, the q-JAYS, the V-Moda Vibe, the Creative Aurvana... and several I can't think of at the moment.  Lately I feel that if I were to combine the best qualities of all of these (as obtainable through their usual fit), I would have something nearly as good as the $99 pair of Sony headphones I used to buy once per year as a teenager (because the cord kept ripping off).   
 
I've reiterated my opinion enough now.

 

[Anaxilus]

Your response indicates you either didn't read or understand any of what I said, I even quoted your own quote.  Regardless, if you think combining all those IEM's would be equal to your $99 sony's from your teenage days I question what you are hearing or whether your hearing has diminshed considerably over time.  Just a thought.  
 
Alec E's thoughts on:
 
MTPC's:
-I thought the MTP Copper sounded like a ghetto blaster. (really?  you obviously didn't bother to read on insertion depth)
-SOLD I received a new Monster Turbine Pro Copper from Dell today, and I dislike it--much too warm and bass-heavy for my taste. (Coppers too warm?  I think most find them a fraction brighter than neutral.  Again, you are not hearing the phones accurately or something is wrong) 
-I don't have any familiarity with the company's reputation in general, but the MTP Copper is, in my humble opinion, a joke. Nothing with such domineering bass, and such negligible soundstage, should be considered "top tier." (Obviously all the Copper fans out there are either deaf, dumb or fanboys...srry guys)
-They'll turn on it in a month, just like they turn on everything else. (Alec E fashion)
SM3's
-Is it not bothersome that these are surely the ugliest high end earphones in existence? (useful)
Radius HP
-Aaaaaand we have a new contender for world's ugliest IEM! (more useful)
 
Deny it, run from it, hide it as much as you like, you claimed no earphones are as good as headphones and that's a universal truth.  I made a sarcastic remark and you got offended.  Well, thats not my problem.  I can also think of 20 IEM's I would take over any particular 100 headphones.  
 
You again generalize and suggest everyone here only has one recommendation, spend more money.  Whats your solution?  Don't spend any money and keep the IEM's he hates?  Or spend more money on what YOU think is better, headphones?  What exactly is your point?  I haven't seen you offer the OP any advice other than IEM's suck and that you were offended.
 
Whatever, I'd prefer to get back to the problem of the OP.  
 

 

[koonhua90]

I wonder if OP is still coming back here to see how much the community care for him, I am sure he will be glad when he does. Oh ya, one thing @ Alec E, you mentioned that "Aside from my own post, no advice has yet been given except:  spend more money", I may have asked the OP to consider customs, that is because the OP seems like he wants to wear IEM, if not he would not even bother to get 3 IEMs. But my second post clearly says that OP should decide based on his preference. If he so chooses IEM (and that's the point he posted his thread in this subforum), we shall give him advice from the standpoint of using IEM. 
 
And another thing, canalphone is also known as IEM. Perhaps you should read ClieOS's wiki on in ear canalphones. I'd prefer so that this does not turn into a flame war, but before someone makes an assumptions/conclusions (not pointing to anyone here), it'd do the community good if those are based on informed readings and rational thinking.