[kman1211]

You definitely have me interested in a DT48/480. If I see one on Ebay and if the price is not too much then I might buy one. I have lots of experience with AKG headphones and the K702 in particular, the K702 has been my reference open-back headphone for 10 whole years now, I know it well. I always find it odd when I hear someone describe the K702's sound as bright. My second favourite AKG headphone (just thought I would mention it anyway) is the Q701. I preferred the Q701 to the K712, I thought it scaled better and actually equaled the level of bass I got from my K712 when I used it with a Cyrus system I had. Q701 is the darkest sounding of the 7 series I think.

They are bass-light stock and do have some resonance stock, and expect to spend some time adjusting to the sound at first, especially unmodified, but if you're not afraid to modify they will reward you, especially the DT 480 which is more modder friendly and uses DT 150 cables if you need to replace the cable. The AKG's are called bright due to their forward upper midrange which I find is where their issues lie but it can be fixed. The headphones I know the best are the DT 480 and the Amiron Home(and Tesla 2.0 Beyers in general). I spent a lot of time with AKGs too, but the whole shift to China manufacturing and AKG essentially dying in all but name is depressing as it was one of my favorite brands.

 

[H T T]

I have the Sony 7506 and the DT880. The 7506 is no where near as good as the DT880 except price.

The Sennheiser and AKG models mentioned would be side grades. Same “quality”, different presentations.

It seems you like the Beyer house sound. I would recommend you check out Tesla driver Beyers.

 

[SonyFan121]

I agree that since he likes the Beyerdynamics he might as well stick with them. They are not the kind of headphones I would use to record guitar music though. I would've recommended the Sony MDR7510 but due to it's neutral/bright sound signature it is more suited to recording instruments such as piano..which is what I use it for. The MDR7510 has very good, high performing drivers, there is zero distortion. Currently the most technically advanced headphone I own.

 

[ernzo]

Good to know you won't describe the K7xx as Bright sounding..
I read a couple of opinions that stated the opposite, so I didn't know what to think.


And yeah, Acoustic/Classical Guitars don't sound too good with the Beyers,
it's as if some of the Resonance disappeared, and this makes the Attack become more apparent..

The sound is not too Full and this makes them not too Exciting to listen to,
but on the other hand.. they become easier to Mix!

And in a way this also adds to the Realism:
Guitar is actually a very out-of-phase sounding instrument, that's why it's so difficult to record..
you usually need multiple sources to capture the resonance, but also all the nuances,
something like a stereo pair, or perhaps a mix of microphone+piezo if you need to move around freely on a live concert.

You can use a single microphone if you're just layering a rhythm track,
but if the guitar has somewhat more presence/leadership, that would usually be the way to go..

This won't happen with a Flute for instance, as it has a very direct/linear, cohesive or in-phase sound..
with a single good mic you're good to go, unless you need to capture more of the room or something.

 

[H T T]

The recording of acoustic guitar is a like herding a bunch of freshly wet kittens. The resonance of the body, the attack of the pick/fingernail, the fret noise, the fingers on the sound board, etc.! I am getting back into hobby-level music making. I am probably going to just go full electronic-based: synths and ROMplers. I don’t have the time or patience for miking.

 

[SonyFan121]

The recording of acoustic guitar is a like herding a bunch of freshly wet kittens. The resonance of the body, the attack of the pick/fingernail, the fret noise, the fingers on the sound board, etc.! I am getting back into hobby-level music making. I am probably going to just go full electronic-based: synths and ROMplers. I don’t have the time or patience for miking.

You are right! I hope it goes well for you too! Good Luck!

Good to know you won't describe the K7xx as Bright sounding..
I read a couple of opinions that stated the opposite, so I didn't know what to think.


And yeah, Acoustic/Classical Guitars don't sound too good with the Beyers,
it's as if some of the Resonance disappeared, and this makes the Attack become more apparent..

The sound is not too Full and this makes them not too Exciting to listen to,
but on the other hand.. they become easier to Mix!

And in a way this also adds to the Realism:
Guitar is actually a very out-of-phase sounding instrument, that's why it's so difficult to record..
you usually need multiple sources to capture the resonance, but also all the nuances,
something like a stereo pair, or perhaps a mix of microphone+piezo if you need to move around freely on a live concert.

You can use a single microphone if you're just layering a rhythm track,
but if the guitar has somewhat more presence/leadership, that would usually be the way to go..

This won't happen with a Flute for instance, as it has a very direct/linear, cohesive or in-phase sound..
with a single good mic you're good to go, unless you need to capture more of the room or something.

You probably don't need that many mic's to capture the timbre of an acoustic instrument in it's entirety, when recording in a quiet/well insulated studio environment.

 

[Deaj]

The beyerdynamic DT 880 Premium 600 ohm replaced my DT 880 Pro. The beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro replaced my DT 880 Premium.

 

[ernzo]

So.. I've just tried the Sundaras!

I'm not completely mindblown, but they gave me a Very Positive impression.
It's also the first time I listen to planar-magnetics, and the difference is very apparent.

-In comparison with the DT880 Pro, Sundara is considerably more Detailed..

The response is very Fast and Accurate, and that coupled with the natural Frequency Response,
and the Clear/Crisp sound, really mark a difference.

All this Clearness let you appreciate the instrument's Timbres in great Detail,
and the definition/accuracy and separation of instruments is improved.

The Frequency Response is very Natural, and quite similar to the Beyer.
It's got a Very Similar overall tonality, very Open and Airy..

Maybe it's got a hair more presence in the early-Highs,
and that makes some instruments like Flutes stand-out a little bit more..

But it's not any more Bright overall than the Beyers,
in fact I would say their top-Highs are a bit more correct and well bounded.


So in essence this is very positive, cause they bring all this extra Detail and Clearness,
but preserving the overall Tonality and FR.. IOW, not at the expense of being any more Brighter than the Beyers.

The Comfort is better in the Sundaras, good fit.
The pads are Deep enough so your ears won't touch the drivers, and they are Soft to the touch yet Firm as they retain their form.

The Design is excellent, and the Build Quality is good.
Maybe not as indestructible as the Beyer, but very close alltogheter.


-There's only two things that the Beyers seem to do better, or at least differently.

First I guess is the natural difference between the Dynamic and the Planar Magnetic techs..
since the Beyers are Dynamic they have more Resonance, in a let's say Euphonic and Liquid way.

In a way it's more Dirty,
as if the different sounds/instruments and frequencies bleeded/interfered or blended with each other.

But on the other hand it's also a Natural and desirable effect,
as this lets the Resonance of the instruments come through, making the notes Bloom..

And I would say it's also and "artistical" effect, making the sounds blend mre. as when a painter mixes the colors in a palette.


The Sundaras are so Fast and Detailed, they don't let this Bloom or extra Resonance appear, they are Dryer in this aspect;
but on the other hand they are much more Accurate and give a Clearer representation of the sound/instruments/timbre..


Secondly the Sundaras have less Bass and Sub-Bass.
It's all there, they have proper Extension, but the Lows are Recessed, just not as Present or loud as in my Beyers
(which I had on the side for A/B-ing..)

It's not a radical difference,
and I know this particular unit of Beyers I've got have a relatively generous Bass response..

But it's enough to make a difference, and alas, that takes two points out from the Sundaras.


-All this withstanding, there's however an important detail I must add..

This particular unit of Sundaras was New, and had less than 2 hours of play!
(I had the shop call me whenever they got them for exposition..)

It seems Hifiman recommends a 150h burn-in period,
so I guess the overall character/response of the headphone is likely to Improve.

And hopefully this could mean improved Bass response,
or perhaps more Resonance, who knows..


-So in essence, and considering the absolute technical differences..
Sundara seems to be a nice Magneto-Planar alternative to the good old DT880.

The overall Tonality, Airy/Open Character and Sound Signature is very very similar,
the difference relies in the different technologies used..

Sundara is naturally Faster, much more Accurate and Detailed.
DT880 is more Euphonic and Resonant, an perhaps a tad more Liquid..
(yet not nearly as Liquid as the Meze Classic for instance)

And that's very good!


-So.. since I could not try the AKG, and the Senheiser sucked..

I guess this narrows down my actual options:
1. Fix my DT880's - Play the Beyerdynamic Roulette/Raffle and buy a set of replacement drivers for 100€.
If I'm lucky and the drivers turn out to be good, I could have a nice proper balanced unit.

However the Doom factor here is considerable..

2. Get the Sundaras - They could be a nice complement to my DT's,
offering more Detail and Accuracy, which I guess can only be good for mixing..

And they could hopefully improve after the burn-in period,
giving better bass and resonance, and after I got used to them, could potentially end replacing the DT's completely..

3. Scrap everything and go for the DT1990's.
For this I would need to listen them first, which I think is gonna be difficult in Barcelona..

But there's still the Potential to find the end-it-all headphone that will take me out of this misery.. lol


Ofc that means I would need to spend 500€ more in the Beyer Roulette,
with the potential risk of failing pray to it, having to fight the Shop to replace the headphones numerous times..

Or not even getting a proper unit at all, which then would have to be sent to Beyer's repairmen,
who will not acknowledge their fault, and I will have to keep them with the message "it enters inside our parameters".. lovely!

(and this is exactly what happened to me on my third and last DT880 Beyer experience..)


-Other than that..
I don't think there's many more contenders that I could consider here.

But well, one thing is clear for now:
the Sundaras are very Good!

PS:
The music was played through a Astell&Kern KANN portable player,
which is the same player I demoed the Senheiser HD600 with..

I'm not an expert in portable players, but seeing the price tag I guess it was good enough for the task,
and seemed to properly drive my DT880.. so I guess the Sundaras were well feed too.

 

[Mad Max]

The recording of acoustic guitar is a like herding a bunch of freshly wet kittens. The resonance of the body, the attack of the pick/fingernail, the fret noise, the fingers on the sound board, etc.! I am getting back into hobby-level music making. I am probably going to just go full electronic-based: synths and ROMplers. I don’t have the time or patience for miking.

... the K702 has been my reference open-back headphone for 10 whole years now, I know it well...

mein brudren

Most people don't think K702 has bass but it does..and sub-bass too..they just need a good enough amp to reveal it.

Damn this, I only barely discovered what I was missing out on for years when I picked up a worthy Audio-gd amp just last year.