[Zarathustra19]

Well, first off, your friend should have been suspended as he was for recruiting at all for a game called "assassins" in school, thats like standard stuff everywhere in the country, but he was probably given an unfair level of suspension because of the mass paranoia the media caused by giving us a full week of non-stop coverage of the VT shootings. I don't think race had anything to do with it in this circumstance, it seems to be more of a, what you called, "knee jerk reaction" because the school saw that if parents heard about it and they hadn't done anything about the student in question, the school would probably have been sued for not doing enough about a "potential threat".

I'll just say our current culture of fear is rather annoying and causes more problems than it prevents by trying to fix things that already happened instead of looking to the next threat.

Sucks for your friend though. But a suspension shouldn't be the end of his educational pursuits. I'm sure he can explain on the application what it was for.

 

[bhd812]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk /img/forum/go_quote.gif zero tolerance. my favorite. when we were cleaning out lockers last year, i was emptying out my backpack. a teacher was standing over my shoulder. there was a little toy pistol in the bottom of the bag (that i had put in there a few months ago) and she saw. bam. 80 days at the alternative school. and at my hearing they didn't even have the toy gun. they just had a picture of it, blown up a few times to make it look actual size (it was about the size of my palm). boy was that fun. also i still went to the movies and stuff, and one of my friends started talking about me being suspended for a ******** reason (at school, probably a dumb move). he got suspended for that, and when i got back, all of the administrators gave me the stink eye and told me i was trying to get students riled up for no reason. because of that 80 day suspension, i am labeled as a problem child by any teacher that has seen my permanent record. it will be the same for your friend, computerpro3. even if he did make a mistake (i don't think he did), he will be labeled as a problem child or bad apple until he graduates college most likely, which is completely unfair. did i mention that i can't go on a field trip to six flags because of that 80 day suspension? or to the belle (a ferry) or my graduation? all because of something i did (i didn't even do anything keep that in mind) in 6th grade? boy how i love school. i could ****ing punch a hole through my wall now, i am just so angry with my situation... edit: not high school graduation, some award ceremony. if i wasn't allowed to go to my high school graduation i would probably drop out of school and become a professional hobo or something.

Awww poor little guy...

In my HS you would of been kicked out! but not before your parents where called in to drag you out by your hair (or what hair you had cause the school had rules on that to..) in front of your entire student body..

we could not even bring a pager or cell phone in my school, let alone getting caught with anything that remotely had a shape of a gun..hell we got suspensions if we pushed another person (i got a three day, and a butt kicking from my parents..).

but these days I don't wanna punch a wall, I would not of dropped out..
maybe cause I learned my lesson (or maybe I was not even allowed to be so stupid) and grew up...something wrong with the youth of today..


by the way i don't mean anything against you but dude let it go..you got off easy!

and to the op..
your friend was warned he should of taken it more serious and not mention nothing of anything in the school, but since he did Is there even a permit record? i always thought that was BS?

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's sum it up: 1) School tells friend to stop promoting/recruiting this game in school 2) Teacher hears friend promoting it the following day anyway (and whether inadvertently or not, he did just that 3) Friend gets suspended. Where exactly is the injustice in that? Whether or you disagree with the school or not (I personally do not see the harm in this game and think people need to stop being so damn sensitive about everything), they laid down the rules, your friend was aware of those rules, and violated them. Stupidity is not a defense. I love the whole lawyer bit, just erase your records with a bit of legal magic. Pathetic.

What rules?

If Computerpro3 is accurately retelling the event, they got him for "suspension for being a potential threat to school saftey and insubordination"

Does playing a game called "Assassins" outside of school represent a potential threat to the school? Hell no. The school had already warned him for carrying on with it during school before. They knew for a fact that it isn't any threat to the school before they suspended him.

It's also quite a stretch to say that he's promoting/recruiting if people are coming up to him. Saying "come back later out of school" is well within the letter and spirit of the school's request for him to disassociate the school with the game.

The school distorted their own policies beyond recognition. Time for him to lawyer up and follow through.

 

[Techno Rocker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Time for him to lawyer up and follow through.

Agreed.

I had a similair experience with a friend just recentley. He was talking to some of his classmates about the VT incident and he jokes saying he could do that and solve all of his problems. He was being clearly sarcastic, but a kid from the middle school with asperger's heard him and didn't understand. The kid goes to the head-master and my friend is expelled, but he is still aloud to graduate. He clearly should not have made the joke, but also the school blew it way out of proportions.

My advice is the same as Marvin's

-T.R.

 

[tjohnusa]

I would like to know what the students parents think of the suspension. I do think it is a knee jerk reaction but sadly warranted at this time. I remember being a senior and at the brink of adulthood with what I thought was a real grip on what the world was about...man was I wrong! Please take into consideration that teachers are very limited in what they are able to do. In my day I would have been grilled by the principle...counselours...teachers and maybe the janitor. Today if you are not qualified to deal with someone that may be a potential mental case you better not even go there for fear of a lawsuit. This is a great example of parents not paying enough attention to their children...that's going to get a reaction. I must side with the administration on this one...if they let it go and someone gets hurt down the road...LAWSUIT. I did play cowboys and indians as a kid...I am an American Indian so guess what side I was always on...and always lost

 

[Thelonious Monk]

i do not see how i got off easy, seeing as i didn't even have the toy gun on my person, and the teacher noticed it before me, and i got nailed for "being a threat to the safety of others around me". for reference, a few days before that some guy broke another kid's nose and knocked a teacher on her ass then ran off school property. he got one month. if they are going to frivolously get me into a whole lot of trouble, then at least the punishments could be proportionate. i think that i have a right to bitch and moan about this. however this topic is not about me it is about computerpro3's friend, so let's not derail it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Awww poor little guy... In my HS you would of been kicked out! but not before your parents where called in to drag you out by your hair (or what hair you had cause the school had rules on that to..) in front of your entire student body.. we could not even bring a pager or cell phone in my school, let alone getting caught with anything that remotely had a shape of a gun..hell we got suspensions if we pushed another person (i got a three day, and a butt kicking from my parents..). but these days I don't wanna punch a wall, I would not of dropped out.. maybe cause I learned my lesson (or maybe I was not even allowed to be so stupid) and grew up...something wrong with the youth of today.. by the way i don't mean anything against you but dude let it go..you got off easy! and to the op.. your friend was warned he should of taken it more serious and not mention nothing of anything in the school, but since he did Is there even a permit record? i always thought that was BS?

 

[bhd812]

Hey monk I was just being an old grumpy man..did I ever tell you about the time i had to walk to school in 6ft of snow with like 2 cents for lunch?

I would love to know if there really is a permit record..I always thought it was a threat of sorts. when I went to college they did not ask me if I had any prior convictions on my school record or anything..

 

[Thelonious Monk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey monk I was just being an old grumpy man..did I ever tell you about the time i had to walk to school in 6ft of snow with like 2 cents for lunch?

all of this used to be fields

Quote:

I would love to know if there really is a permit record..I always thought it was a threat of sorts. when I went to college they did not ask me if I had any prior convictions on my school record or anything..

no, but educators certainly have ways to find out about your past... it's not like your fingerprints but the information is somewhere. i have seen multiple sheets with information on my suspensions... although i wasn't supposed to i believe

 

[plainsong]

It is knee-jerk and it's not at all warranted and goes to show just how much they do listen to the kids or even bother to investigate evidence. It sounds more about bagging a kill rather than solving anything.

We did the same thing as seniors. The only mistake he made was not renaming it to "Sunshine and puppydogs."

It's not difficult to investigate, he had the rules written down, it's a common game. This is just about making a big score and not at all anything to do with him as a person. And yet it's him it will effect the most.

 

[Computerpro3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's sum it up: 1) School tells friend to stop promoting/recruiting this game in school 2) Teacher hears friend promoting it the following day anyway (and whether inadvertently or not, he did just that 3) Friend gets suspended. Where exactly is the injustice in that? Whether or you disagree with the school or not (I personally do not see the harm in this game and think people need to stop being so damn sensitive about everything), they laid down the rules, your friend was aware of those rules, and violated them. Stupidity is not a defense. I love the whole lawyer bit, just erase your records with a bit of legal magic. Pathetic.

He wasn't promoting it; people kept coming up to him because it was previously so popular. He merely told them to talk to him out of school because he wasn't allowed to in school.


To make things worse his parents literally speak maybe a hundred words of English. I'll talk to him about the lawyer thing but I doubt they have the cash for that.

 

[micaela]

He should go to your school district's central office to file a complaint. There should have been an appeal process available. If your district isn't large enough to have a separate central office - the people he needs to get to are the superindentant or school board members. Usually, the only offences that don't allow for an appeal involve drugs or other felony type offences. Your district should have the appeal process clearly stated in their administrative regs. I can understand the administration & even the police checking into all of this carefully in this day & time -- but for a suspension to not have an appeals process available is not usually accepted procedure and does not follow due process. Sometimes administrators bank on the fact that certain parents won't protest a specific punishment. Hopefully your friend can convince his parents to go with him to speak to the right people -- even if he has to translate for them.

As far as permanent records go -- there are records that follow students through high school. Minor discipline infractions usually don't get passed along from school to school, however they are sometimes included in a discipline report that goes in the cumulative folder that follows every student. (unless there is a reason for someone to look for it - these reports seldom get read - noone has time to sit down & read this kind of info for fun!) Major infractions that involve alternative school or expulsion do leave paper trails in the cum folder. After high school these records are stored for a period of time & eventually destroyed. Colleges do not receive the info in these folders except for the transcript. However, letters of recommendation sometimes do include major infractions that would warn a college of possible problems. Most college applications include sections that the counselor completes which the student does not get to see. But most of the time counselors or school employees won't put harmful things in a letter or on forms unless there is a true concern that the student would cause harm. I don't think your friend has too much to worry about if he is otherwise on good terms with the counselors & teachers who complete this paperwork. I've seen some wonderful kids do truly stupid things in the months preceding graduation! They usually do just fine & colleges don't find out unless there is an arrest or someone gives them the info in a spiteful manner.

 

[Trippytiger]

I can't get over how draconian these American high schools are! Such overzealous punishments for harmless, albeit tasteless, actions is just unbelievable. I'm glad mine was quite lax about stuff like that for the most part, or my friends and I would have probably gotten in a world of trouble because of the things we used to talk about. Guess it helped that we had a pretty good relationship with most of our teachers, though.

So, unsurprisingly, my take on your friend's situation, Computerpro3, is that it's absolutely ridiculous. What he was planning is clearly harmless, and so what if it's a little tasteless? It's more fun that way.

 

[Thelonious Monk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by micaela /img/forum/go_quote.gif He should go to your school district's central office to file a complaint. There should have been an appeal process available. If your district isn't large enough to have a separate central office - the people he needs to get to are the superindentant or school board members. Usually, the only offences that don't allow for an appeal involve drugs or other felony type offences. Your district should have the appeal process clearly stated in their administrative regs. I can understand the administration & even the police checking into all of this carefully in this day & time -- but for a suspension to not have an appeals process available is not usually accepted procedure and does not follow due process. Sometimes administrators bank on the fact that certain parents won't protest a specific punishment. Hopefully your friend can convince his parents to go with him to speak to the right people -- even if he has to translate for them. As far as permanent records go -- there are records that follow students through high school. Minor discipline infractions usually don't get passed along from school to school, however they are sometimes included in a discipline report that goes in the cumulative folder that follows every student. (unless there is a reason for someone to look for it - these reports seldom get read - noone has time to sit down & read this kind of info for fun!) Major infractions that involve alternative school or expulsion do leave paper trails in the cum folder. After high school these records are stored for a period of time & eventually destroyed. Colleges do not receive the info in these folders except for the transcript. However, letters of recommendation sometimes do include major infractions that would warn a college of possible problems. Most college applications include sections that the counselor completes which the student does not get to see. But most of the time counselors or school employees won't put harmful things in a letter or on forms unless there is a true concern that the student would cause harm. I don't think your friend has too much to worry about if he is otherwise on good terms with the counselors & teachers who complete this paperwork. I've seen some wonderful kids do truly stupid things in the months preceding graduation! They usually do just fine & colleges don't find out unless there is an arrest or someone gives them the info in a spiteful manner.

thanks for correcting me on the college part

 

[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's sum it up: 1) School tells friend to stop promoting/recruiting this game in school 2) Teacher hears friend promoting it the following day anyway (and whether inadvertently or not, he did just that 3) Friend gets suspended. Where exactly is the injustice in that? ... they laid down the rules, your friend was aware of those rules, and violated them.

Assuming I understand the facts of the situation correctly, the injustice is that he was promoting a legal (you could even say extracurricular) activity no different than laser tag or a pickup game of b-ball. This falls under free speech, which a student doesn't shed at the schoolhouse door, as long as it is not disruptive to the educational environment. A teacher cannot stop you from inviting your friends to a Boy Scout meeting (or an Assassins organizational meeting) during school hours as long as you aren't yelling out details during class or something of that sort.

He should contact his local ACLU chapter. And he should probably leave race out of it unless there is evidence that the action was taken based on his race.

--Chris

 

[fraseyboy]

I was in a similar (but less serious) situation at school, where I got referred (kinda like a detention that goes on your permanent record and is more serious) in Social Studies, for reportedly using the word "****" (Has 'Hit' in it). What I really said though, was 'Shoot', and everyone around me heard me say the word Shoot. But still, all the teachers and the Year 9 Deen seemed convinced I swore. And now I have this ugly thing on my permanent record.

Moral of the story: Some teachers just cannot and willnot admit that they are wrong. Some like to jump to conclusions, and do not let believe a word you say. Some however, are better, and always listen to the student. Lets hope the OP's friends teachers and principal is like this.


To the OP: Discuss with the principal/teachers. Or you could write a letter explaining it and how you think its unfair dismissal or something.