[geoffkait]

We don't believe what he says either.

Can I suggest holding your hands over your ears?

 

[Ryokan]

 

[geoffkait]

i like Penrose quite a bit even though he kind of wondered into unknown territory with his book, The Emperor’s New Mind, which explores the general idea, is the mind quantum mechanical?

 

[71 dB]

I don’t think marketing does that, I think we do that to ourselves.

My point was we wouldn't "do that to ourselves" without marketing. If we did, companies wouldn't have to spend tons of money on it.

Maybe you’re thinking of subliminal advertising, which was outlawed a long time ago. There is nothing wrong with marketing, in fact marketing is required for any product or idea.

There is nothing wrong with fact based marketing. High-Fidelity/High-End related marketing isn't known for being very fact based. It is known for being often snake oil. If your product doesn't sell based on its real merits/properties, you have to invent non-factual arguments to make people buy it. Shampoo is a great example of this. In the past people washed their hair with shampoo maybe twice a month, but shampoo manufacturers wanted (of course) to increase the amount of shampoo sold. So they started to make ads where washing hair many times a week was cool and necessary to have grease-free hair. That was nonsense, but it certainly increased shampoo sales a lot! A certain amount of grease is NEEDED to keep the scalp healthy. Our body compensates chemical removal of grease by increasing production of it. So, washing your hair with shampoo will increase how much grease is produced by our scalp. It is literally "waste of money." I realised this scam myself about 10 years ago and stopped using shampoo unless I feel my hair is very dirty which happens only a few times a year. When I stopped using shampoo, my hair/scalp felt greasy for a couple of months after which my body had adjusted to shampoo-free life and my hair/scalp felt like when I used "scam-poo", except I have saved money and also cut chemical load on my body. A decision I certainly don't regret. Now, if you think audio products don't suffer from equally pointless marketing you are naive.

Not all products require marketing. How many ads have you seen for adhesive tapes or paper? There is stuff you simple NEED and will buy anyway, marketed or not.

We automatically react to ideas that seem preposterous on their face. It’s human nature. The next step is digging up evidence that supports our foregone conclusions. Plus staying strong and standing up to any evidence that contradicts our beliefs.

 

[geoffkait]

My point was we wouldn't "do that to ourselves" without marketing. If we did, companies wouldn't have to spend tons of money on it.


There is nothing wrong with fact based marketing. High-Fidelity/High-End related marketing isn't known for being very fact based. It is known for being often snake oil. If your product doesn't sell based on its real merits/properties, you have to invent non-factual arguments to make people buy it. Shampoo is a great example of this. In the past people washed their hair with shampoo maybe twice a month, but shampoo manufacturers wanted (of course) to increase the amount of shampoo sold. So they started to make ads where washing hair many times a week was cool and necessary to have grease-free hair. That was nonsense, but it certainly increased shampoo sales a lot! A certain amount of grease is NEEDED to keep the scalp healthy. Our body compensates chemical removal of grease by increasing production of it. So, washing your hair with shampoo will increase how much grease is produced by our scalp. It is literally "waste of money." I realised this scam myself about 10 years ago and stopped using shampoo unless I feel my hair is very dirty which happens only a few times a year. When I stopped using shampoo, my hair/scalp felt greasy for a couple of months after which my body had adjusted to shampoo-free life and my hair/scalp felt like when I used "scam-poo", except I have saved money and also cut chemical load on my body. A decision I certainly don't regret. Now, if you think audio products don't suffer from equally pointless marketing you are naive.

Not all products require marketing. How many ads have you seen for adhesive tapes or paper? There is stuff you simple NEED and will buy anyway, marketed or not.

Fact based marketing? You’re kidding, right? For starters, all facts are debatable. For another, many folks already made up their mind. They don’t want to hear facts, they only want to hear something that agrees with their belief.

I never said that if you look hard enough you wouldn’t find exceptions to the rule. As Judge Judy is fond of saying, there’s nothing wrong with a little puffing. As for me, I don’t use puffery, I even support controlled blind testing. Does that surprise You? Without good marketing something terrible happens. Nothing.

 

[bfreedma]

Fact based marketing? You’re kidding, right? For starters, all facts are debatable.

I never said that if you look hard enough you wouldn’t find exceptions to the rule. As Judge Judy is fond of saying, there’s nothing wrong with a little puffing. As for me, I don’t use puffery, My products are, always have been, science-based and fact-based. Now, you might not like the name of the product or believe in them, that’s not my problem. I even support controlled blind testing. Does that surprise You? Without good marketing something terrible happens. Nothing.

You need to have a MOT tag on your account if you’re selling product.

That aside, I wasn’t able to find the results of your blind testing. Please post them and a description of the controls once you’ve made contact with Head-Fi and have your account identified as a MOT.

 

[geoffkait]

You need to have a MOT tag on your account if you’re selling product.

That aside, I wasn’t able to find the results of your blind testing. Please post them and a description of the controls once you’ve made contact with Head-Fi and have your account identified as a MOT.

Funny. I didn’t say my blind testing, I said blind testing in general. Please don’t force words down my throat, you’ll get me in trouble. Anyone is free to test any of my products however they see fit. I have a sneaking suspicion you wouldn’t believe them even if I published test results. Your mind is already made up, no? That’s why independent testing is the answer. Independent Validation and Verification IV&V. Like the big boys do.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Not too chicken to change

 

[bfreedma]

Funny. I didn’t say my blind testing, I said blind testing in general. Please don’t force words down my throat, you’ll get me in trouble. Anyone is free to test any of my products however they see fit. I have a sneaking suspicion you wouldn’t believe them even if I published test results. Your mind is already made up, no? That’s why independent testing is the answer. Independent Validation and Verification IV&V. Like the big boys do.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Not too chicken to change

Feel free to post the results of independent testing. Or any testing with proper controls implemented. I looked for them on your website but nothing to be found there.

No customer testimonials please.

 

[geoffkait]

As I said I don’t get involved. What do you think the perception would be of that. OMG Ha ha

An enterprising skeptic took an Intelligwnt Chip to a lab with a scanning electron microscope to see if there were any artificial atoms in the thing, as claimed. They reported back they couldn’t find any, but they didn’t realize the Chip was a tiny metal sandwich with the artificial atoms in the tiny gap between the two metal halves of the sandwich.

 

[bfreedma]

As I said I don’t get involved. What do you think the perception would be of that. OMG Ha ha

An enterprising skeptic took an Intelligwnt Chip to a lab with a scanning electron microscope to see if there were any artificial atoms in the thing, as claimed. They reported back they couldn’t find any, but they didn’t realize the Chip was a tiny metal sandwich with the artificial atoms in the tiny gap between the two metal halves of the sandwich.

I apologize to everyone for engaging with a troll. Moving on…

 

[geoffkait]

I apologize to everyone for engaging with a troll. Moving on…

Is it just me or this place infatuated with name-calling? Besides you’re the troll, it’s so obvious.

 

[gregorio]

Of course, you’re right, it sounds preposterous. So do black holes sound preposterous.

Black holes sound preposterous because of their extreme mass and the laws of physics seem to breakdown within them, so obviously they’re just like green marker pens. What a perfect analogy, well done!

The next step is digging up evidence that supports our foregone conclusions.

More proof you don’t know what science is. And, if that’s not enough, you still haven’t actually provided any evidence to support your claims but obviously, that wouldn’t bother a troll.

Plus staying strong and standing up to any evidence that contradicts our beliefs.

Sure, the earth is flat and green marker pens are magic, don’t let the evidence or facts get in your way, stay strong! lol

Is it just me or this place infatuated with name-calling?

Nope, it’s just you. Although there’s usually a couple of other trolls lurking around waiting for a good trolling opportunity. If someone goes to a science discussion forum to troll BS claims, promote snake oil products or both, then what name should we call them; God, Yoda, a philanthropist or what they actually are, a troll? But by all means play the victim, that’s standard trolling too.

G

 

[geoffkait]

Nice fake pro science naysayer rant.

 

[71 dB]

Fact based marketing? You’re kidding, right? For starters, all facts are debatable.

Unfortunately! That's why we have flat earthers and Moon landing deniers.

For another, many folks already made up their mind. They don’t want to hear facts, they only want to hear something that agrees with their belief.

I consider myself an educated individual with critical thinking skills. It means I am ready to change my beliefs if need be, but also that any nonsense won't do. What you are doing here isn't anywhere near anything that could change my mind.

I never said that if you look hard enough you wouldn’t find exceptions to the rule. As Judge Judy is fond of saying, there’s nothing wrong with a little puffing. As for me, I don’t use puffery, I even support controlled blind testing. Does that surprise You? Without good marketing something terrible happens. Nothing.

Market all you want and collect the money of morrons. That's literally your business, but don't expect to be appreciated on sound science forum.

 

[geoffkait]

Temper, temper. I’m only trying to help you.