[Slush]

So I am in for a new set of studio headphones to replace my ATH M30x and investigating a bunch of brands. I produce Techno music. Yes, some call this music.
The funny thing is that if someone would have given me a buck every time I have read ‘Beyerdynamic’ I would be sipping Piña Colada’s on Honolulu right now. I always love to search beyond the boundaries and to ‘not follow the crowd’, because as soon as you ask for a studio headphone it’s either the DT770 or ATH50x you’ll get for an answer, and I kind of know by now they suffer from too much highs and lows and scoops without eq, and there are so many brands out there that have better tuning and deserve attention. Not to say Beyer or ATH is off my list, I just want to have an open mind and a bigger perspective.

Anyways, one of the headphones on my list are the Mackie MC-350 (https://mackie.com/en/products/headphones/mc-series-headphones/MC_350.html)
They really seem to get excellent reviews all over the place, and I can get them for a reasonable price as well. They have a nice 50mm driver and the frequency response is 20Hz - 20kHz. That seems all well in between the human hearing range, but I have come across headphones that go as low as 5Hz probably not even a dog can hear. You might feel it? So is 20Hz - 20kHz just a beautiful frequency range and anything lower/higher is just marketing fluff, or is this range too slim for electronic/techno? I haven’t read a single review someone was complaining about this. A Japanese brand like Phonon (https://phonon-inc.eu/products/smb-02/) has the 300+ bucks costing SMB-02 with the very same frequency specs (but with a smaller 40mm driver!), and is loved by some well known Techno producer. So what’s your opinion?

 

[o0genesis0o]

So I am in for a new set of studio headphones to replace my ATH M30x and investigating a bunch of brands. I produce Techno music. Yes, some call this music.
The funny thing is that if someone would have given me a buck every time I have read ‘Beyerdynamic’ I would be sipping Piña Colada’s on Honolulu right now. I always love to search beyond the boundaries and to ‘not follow the crowd’, because as soon as you ask for a studio headphone it’s either the DT770 or ATH50x you’ll get for an answer, and I kind of know by now they suffer from too much highs and lows and scoops without eq, and there are so many brands out there that have better tuning and deserve attention. Not to say Beyer or ATH is off my list, I just want to have an open mind and a bigger perspective.

Anyways, one of the headphones on my list are the Mackie MC-350 (https://mackie.com/en/products/headphones/mc-series-headphones/MC_350.html)
They really seem to get excellent reviews all over the place, and I can get them for a reasonable price as well. They have a nice 50mm driver and the frequency response is 20Hz - 20kHz. That seems all well in between the human hearing range, but I have come across headphones that go as low as 5Hz probably not even a dog can hear. You might feel it? So is 20Hz - 20kHz just a beautiful frequency range and anything lower/higher is just marketing fluff, or is this range too slim for electronic/techno? I haven’t read a single review someone was complaining about this. A Japanese brand like (Phonon https://phonon-inc.eu/products/smb-02/) has the 300+ bucks costing SMB-02 with the very same frequency specs (but with a smaller 40mm driver!), and is loved by some well known Techno producer. So what’s your opinion?

Almost all headphone and IEMs have 20-20k response range nowadays, so I don't think that number means anything in terms of product differentiation nowadays. Many that pass the hi-res thingy are supposed to be able to all the way to 40k, but again, they can still sound bad. It's better to look at frequency response graph. Maybe you can find a database such as squiglink (https://listener.squig.link/?share=Audio_Technica_ATH-M20x) and compare your known headphones against the response of other headphones. It's just how you EQ. If you current headphones have too little 250Hz, maybe find something with more of that.

 

[baskingshark]

So I am in for a new set of studio headphones to replace my ATH M30x and investigating a bunch of brands. I produce Techno music. Yes, some call this music.
The funny thing is that if someone would have given me a buck every time I have read ‘Beyerdynamic’ I would be sipping Piña Colada’s on Honolulu right now. I always love to search beyond the boundaries and to ‘not follow the crowd’, because as soon as you ask for a studio headphone it’s either the DT770 or ATH50x you’ll get for an answer, and I kind of know by now they suffer from too much highs and lows and scoops without eq, and there are so many brands out there that have better tuning and deserve attention. Not to say Beyer or ATH is off my list, I just want to have an open mind and a bigger perspective.

Anyways, one of the headphones on my list are the Mackie MC-350 (https://mackie.com/en/products/headphones/mc-series-headphones/MC_350.html)
They really seem to get excellent reviews all over the place, and I can get them for a reasonable price as well. They have a nice 50mm driver and the frequency response is 20Hz - 20kHz. That seems all well in between the human hearing range, but I have come across headphones that go as low as 5Hz probably not even a dog can hear. You might feel it? So is 20Hz - 20kHz just a beautiful frequency range and anything lower/higher is just marketing fluff, or is this range too slim for electronic/techno? I haven’t read a single review someone was complaining about this. A Japanese brand like (Phonon https://phonon-inc.eu/products/smb-02/) has the 300+ bucks costing SMB-02 with the very same frequency specs (but with a smaller 40mm driver!), and is loved by some well known Techno producer. So what’s your opinion?

The human hearing range is 20 Hz - 20 kHz. And that is assuming one is young with perfect hearing.

With increasing age, the hearing generally deteriorates (presbycusis), so some older folk may not even hear some frequencies past 8 kHz.

I've seen audio manufacturers boasting of 5 - 70 kHz frequency response. This is a marketing gimmick that only our dolphin and bat friends can appreciate.

 

[Slush]

Yes, good point, age play a part. I am 50, so that might cut off some stuff (soon I will only be listening to my inner voice).

I found a frequency response chart from the Mackie MC-350.
(from https://www.headphonecheck.com/test/mackie-mc-350/)

 

[CopperFox]

From running sine waves from 6 to 20 Hz from Room EQ Wizard's sine wave generator, it seems I can hear below 20Hz. With the same method I have noticed amplifiers actually do differ in how far below 20Hz they can go.

Also music played with below 20Hz cutoff activated with software always sounds worse to me.

 

[icnaiwhimor1975]

hardly anyone can hear more than 18 kHz

 

[GREQ]

20-20K is a myth.

There are people who can hear above 20Khz, and people who can hear well below 20 (like me).

The 20-20K specs on headphones is just enough to let you know that the headphone is not hot-garbage, although even then it's not a guarantee.

 

[rennyprowess]

20Hz to 20kHz has become extremely common and I think that is the baseline spec that headphones/IEMs state on their specs. It may not be sufficient in making or breaking your decision. If you produce more electronic music, you may want to consider something that has more bass (or something you enjoy making the music with). You can check this by looking at a frequency response graph.

 

[earmonger]

Years ago I listened to ATH-M30x and M40x because they were widely recommended. I thought they sounded claustrophobic and dull. My guess is that they are studio staples because they are useful for overdubbing a single part -- isolating from the mic and focusing on that one part. That's how I often see them used in session photos -- not for mixing.

The Audio-Technica ATH-R70X that I regularly tout here don't sound anything like them. Apparently they're also pretty different from most of the other Audio-Technicas. They are open-back with spacious, natural sound; ultra-comfortable and made for studio use, with a long cord so you can pace around. They claim a frequency response of 5Hz-40,000 Hz -- sure, who knows? When I listen to electronica and things are supposed to go whizzing around, they do. They do improve a lot with a headphone amp but your studio probably has one.

For mixing I'd think you would NOT want something with a big bass boost or an "exciting" profile; you might end up skimping in the areas where those particular headphones are pumping things up.

The ATH-R70X do cost more than twice as much as the Mackies you're looking at, they're open-back rather than closed, and I don't know your budget. But don't let your bad experience with the ATH-M30x keep you from trying them if you can. Thomann.de can probaby give you the best price in Europe with a 30-day return policy.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17535412/audio-technica-r70x-review-professional-headphones

I also recently got the Beyerdynamic DT700 Pro X in order to have closed-backs. By all accounts they've tamed the exaggerated peaks of older Beyers, and they sound very good to me. But the ATH-R70X are pure delight.

 

[Slush]

Years ago I listened to ATH-M30x and M40x because they were widely recommended. I thought they sounded claustrophobic and dull. My guess is that they are studio staples because they are useful for overdubbing a single part -- isolating from the mic and focusing on that one part. That's how I often see them used in session photos -- not for mixing.

The Audio-Technica ATH-R70X that I regularly tout here don't sound anything like them. Apparently they're also pretty different from most of the other Audio-Technicas. They are open-back with spacious, natural sound; ultra-comfortable and made for studio use, with a long cord so you can pace around. They claim a frequency response of 5Hz-40,000 Hz -- sure, who knows? When I listen to electronica and things are supposed to go whizzing around, they do. They do improve a lot with a headphone amp but your studio probably has one.

For mixing I'd think you would NOT want something with a big bass boost or an "exciting" profile; you might end up skimping in the areas where those particular headphones are pumping things up.

The ATH-R70X do cost more than twice as much as the Mackies you're looking at, they're open-back rather than closed, and I don't know your budget. But don't let your bad experience with the ATH-M30x keep you from trying them if you can. Thomann.de can probaby give you the best price in Europe with a 30-day return policy.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17535412/audio-technica-r70x-review-professional-headphones

I also recently got the Beyerdynamic DT700 Pro X in order to have closed-backs. By all accounts they've tamed the exaggerated peaks of older Beyers, and they sound very good to me. But the ATH-R70X are pure delight.

Thanks for these suggestions! Unfortunately I cannot use open backs at the moment. I don’t have bad experiences with the ATH30x, it’s just that I think it’s time for a step up, something better and new. Budget around €180/200 max, I have a cat to feed too. I was also looking at Audix A150 ( https://audixusa.com/products/a150/ ) not very well known but also has great specs and gets very positive reviews on top of a flat response, like you mentioned, is very important to me. I am not looking for big basses and pushed highs, when tracking/producing I want an even and honest sound, and preferably from a headphone I don’t have to squeeze through an equalizer to make it sound flat before it’s good to go. I always have a tendency to investigate gear that goes outside the mainstream opinion. Pioneer HRM-7, also on my list, but I am afraid it’s a bit too large for my head. AKG K371 maybe, but it’s so plastic, and I hate cheap build.

 

[k273]

The funny thing is that if someone would have given me a buck every time I have read ‘Beyerdynamic’ I would be sipping Piña Colada’s on Honolulu right now. I always love to search beyond the boundaries and to ‘not follow the crowd’, because as soon as you ask for a studio headphone it’s either the DT770 or ATH50x you’ll get for an answer, and I kind of know by now they suffer from too much highs and lows and scoops without eq, and there are so many brands out there that have better tuning and deserve attention. Not to say Beyer or ATH is off my list, I just want to have an open mind and a bigger perspective.

... and the frequency response is 20Hz - 20kHz. That seems all well in between the human hearing range, but I have come across headphones that go as low as 5Hz probably not even a dog can hear. You might feel it? So is 20Hz - 20kHz just a beautiful frequency range and anything lower/higher is just marketing fluff, or is this range too slim for electronic/techno? I haven’t read a single review someone was complaining about this.

Actually a very good question! Being a doctor and medical teacher for 17 years, I now understand that all the repeated specs of our senses (e.g. hearing in 20-20000Hz, amount of colour receptor cones in our eyes, etc.) are generally just that: general normative rules. Some people might hear or see colours a little differently. I don't know about my own ears; I think it'd be lucky if I could hear below 20Hz as I'm a basshead.

Alongside ATH50s and DT770s, Sennheiser HD6xx (and to a lesser degree, HD8xx and 5xx) are also something that is most often mentioned here in HeadFi for critical listening. I haven't had the chance to listen with them, but thought I'd say to you, just in case.

 

[yage]

Unless you're less than about ten years old, you probably won't be able to hear 20 kHz. I tested the limits of my kids' hearing and my ten year old's upper limit is already ~18 kHz. If you can hear less than 20 Hz on headphones, most likely it's second or third order distortion that's playing rather than the fundamental. You can find some useful sound tests here - audiocheck.net

I suggest the AKG K371's. They're a closed back with fantastic sound and right in your price range. Been my daily driver ever since I got them about three years ago.

EDIT - I missed the apprehension about the build quality. I can't complain in that department. Metal where it counts (hinges) and high quality pleather for the headband. The only weak spot is the earpads (which recently disintegrated) that have no OEM replacment for sale. The Dekoni Choice Suede however are available and don't mess up the frequency response.

 

[earmonger]

Reviews of the Audix A150 look intriguing indeed. Whatever you choose, your impressions would be welcome.

 

[Luckyleo]

DCA E3. There is a dedicated thread for these. Not sure if they are in your price range, or if the sound characteristics are what you're looking for. But reviews seem to indicate it's a great closed back.

Leo

 

[Slush]

DCA E3. There is a dedicated thread for these. Not sure if they are in your price range, or if the sound characteristics are what you're looking for. But reviews seem to indicate it's a great closed back.

Leo

A little bit outside my 180/200 euro price range