[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif The cummulative spectral decay of the HD800 at 1 Khz is very clean. Yet at 5KHz the HD800 shows a pretty bad decay, in fact worse than the HD650's as mentioned. Anyone feeling anything weird in the upper midrange / lower treble with the HD800? (This is probably hard to answer I know, because it's not related to frequency response or brightness, decay is a different feature)

I definitely hear issues with the HD800 in this region, and I mentioned this in my review. I have been trying to figure out what the cause could be. Interesting that it could be this (as opposed to FR) that could perhaps be contributing.

 

[wnmnkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very interesting. I didn't know HeadRoom applied perceptual correction to their graphs. How did you get these raw graphs?

You need to play with the numbers on the last of the link. For example graph of D2000 is...

HTML Code:

[left]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=243[/left]

Now look at the number "243" subtract 2 from the number would be 241. That would be "raw" if you subtract 1 and get 242, then it would be "compensated" The final result is smoothed version of compensated, "243"

You can play with numbers to find out more about headphones not just ones listed on headroom site, such as electrical phase and some others.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnmnkh /img/forum/go_quote.gif You need to play with the numbers on the last of the link. For example graph of D2000 is... HTML Code: [left]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=243[/left] Now look at the number "243" subtract 2 from the number would be 241. That would be "raw" if you subtract 1 and get 242, then it would be "compensated" The final result is smoothed version of compensated, "243" You can play with numbers to find out more about headphones not just ones listed on headroom site, such as electrical phase and some others.

Thanks for the tip!

You can even find square-wave responses and the like...

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[wnmnkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I feel it the very first time I auditioned it @ Sennheiser, the vocal seems take longer to 'stop' then what I expected. I keep mentioning this on every occasion in head-fi but seems not everybody hear it, only one agree with me. I refer this as 'hollow' sound in another post. Now that I see this waterfall graph for the first time, now I know why .... technically. But man, HD650's 1K is really dissapointing. It look like a faulty headphone

Just to know people hardly ever feel difference between decay. It is less than milisecond difference, and people just cannot notice it that well. And even such difference is usually compensated by medium (i.e air) that almost makes these graphs meaningless.

 

[UtzY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the tip! You can even find square-wave responses and the like...

Actually you can find square-wave responses in the menu

 

[ohnjee]

Omoshiroi!

Then can you find the frequency graph of HD600 compared to HD650,800?

Thank you for your works!

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtzY /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually you can find square-wave responses in the menu

Really?

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnmnkh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just to know people hardly ever feel difference between decay. It is less than milisecond difference, and people just cannot notice it that well. And even such difference is usually compensated by medium (i.e air) that almost makes these graphs meaningless.

The human ear can tell differences of less than 10 microseconds for inter-aural time delay. That doesn't directly apply to the waterfall graphs we're talking about, but it gives you an idea of what the hardware is capable of.

We tell a lot about our environment by how sound decays in it. It's just that most people don't realise how sensitive they are, subconsciously, in this area. The differences in apparent soundstage between different headphones are partly due to these small differences in decay.

 

[donthuang]

New CSD pic is coming.....really interesting

Sound Pressure range 30dB time range 2ms

Sound Pressure range 40dB time range 12ms

The site also updata more headphone CSD pic like HD580,DENON, AD2000,ED7....

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donthuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif New CSD pic is coming.....really interesting The site also updata more headphone CSD pic like HD580,DENON, AD2000,ED7....

Quote:

Originally Posted by donthuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif New CSD pic is coming.....really interesting The site also updata more headphone CSD pic like HD580,DENON, AD2000,ED7....

Yes, I notice it as well today. This is a very interesting site. D5000, D7000 as well, Qualia

Qualia doesn't look very impressive in the bass department but surely VERY clean from 1K above at 45 dB SPL

 

[JaZZ]

The Qualia's treble decay is impressively short. On the other hand, the (lower and upper) midrange looks a bit wonky. And if you look at the first few lines, the initial treble decay on the HD-800 graph is even clearly faster than that of the Qualia, it just takes longer for complete silence.
.

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnmnkh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just to know people hardly ever feel difference between decay. It is less than milisecond difference, and people just cannot notice it that well. And even such difference is usually compensated by medium (i.e air) that almost makes these graphs meaningless.

Hi wnmnkh, we can actually hear 'decays' / 'delays' in the range of even 0.1 to 2 ms

The significance of the pinna reflection experiments for a sound system designer is that time delays on the order of 0.1 millisecond can effect sound imaging. Time delays between the left and right ear are on the order of 0.5 milliseconds, and are quite important. On the other hand, researchers have found that echoes in the range of 1 to 50 milliseconds are lumped together by the brain with the direct sound, so they are not actually heard as distinct echoes. Delays greater than 50 milliseconds are heard as echoes. My own echo research is described in the sound demo section, and you can listen to the results yourself. Echoes in the range of 25 to 100 milliseconds give a "cavernous" quality to the sound. What is commonly called an "echo," a distinct repetition of the original sound, only occurs for echoes of 400 milliseconds or longer. Echoes in the range of 0.1 to 2 milliseconds do cause changes in the apparent direction of the source.

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Qualia's treble decay is impressively short. On the other hand, the (lower and upper) midrange looks a bit wonky. And if you look at the first few lines, the initial treble decay on the HD-800 graph is even clearly faster than that of the Qualia, it just takes longer for complete silence. .

Sharp observation Jazz! If I scrutinize 5KHz, at 2.46ms it's already green, whereas Qualia still yellow. And what happen to Qualia's bass? it's very oddly 'curly'