[Asr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif the new MIT oracle cable is 25K for the first few feet. they don't sell their cables at half price though. so are they legitimate or a fraud as well. the valhalla odin is 13K. fraud too? a burmeister CD player is 50K. a clear audio turntable is 100K. all fraud?

No offense, but were you even thinking with your head when you wrote this? Look at all the stuff that sells for multi-thousands and more. Where do you think the money is going? Audio circuitry? You're kidding yourself if you think the >$10K equipment uses audio circuitry or parts that are superior to <$10K equipment. Circuits and parts are all essentially the same thing and you can only do so much with them. It's not as if the ultra-expensive equipment is built on some futuristic nanotech that's somehow the secret ingredient from the heavens.

The reason most of the ultra-expensive equipment is that expensive is because excessively wealthy people want audio equipment that has looks to go with their lavish lifestyle and they want to show off flashy anodized aluminum or gold or platinum, or whatever else it is the ultra-expensive stuff is plated with. Because these people want ultra-lavishly styled equipment, there are companies more than willing to make that kind of stuff so they can rake in the dough. How can you really think the sound gets that much better on the extreme upper fringe? Maybe "fraud" isn't the right word to use but a lot of it is really just there for looks, not sound.

 

[vcoheda]

well. when did you become such a know it all.

 

[Asr]

I'm not pretending to be a "know it all" as you put it, as I don't know half the stuff I'd like to, but none of the stuff in the audio industry is built on mystique, and there are plenty of companies who try to sell that idea. Do you know anything at all about electronics, even a little bit? Have you ever taken a look at an electronic circuit? It's not magic, it's science, and there's nothing to justify the price of the ultra-expensive equipment other than the materials they use for the chassis work and processes involved for the finishing.

 

[Sovkiller]

Any CPU of any PC, any Cellphone, that maybe cost you $200.00 has a lot more electronics, innovations, and really creative ideas inside, and shells a lot more complex circuitry than any half a million audio equipment...audio is one of the simplest things you can find in electronics today...

 

[vcoheda]

if you're not acting like a know it all, then i guess you are just being a **** - no "offense" though.

for every product - source, amp, phones, cables -, some people will say it is not worth the price, no matter how much it is. i'm sure some people think the odins are worth their price or the VD cords. would i personally spend a few thousand on a cable. no. but that's because it doesn't fit in my budget. if i had matching components at that price, i may. can i categorically state that expensive cables are not worth it. no. because i haven't heard them.

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif if you're not acting like a know it all, then i guess you are just being a jerk - no "offense" though. for every product - source, amp, phones, cables -, some people will say it is not worth the price, no matter how much it is. i'm sure some people think the odins are worth their price or the VD cords. would i personally spend a few thousand on a cable. no. but that's because it doesn't fit in my budget. if i had matching components at that price, i may. can i categorically state that expensive cables are not worth it. no. because i haven't heard them.

Once again, you are starting with the personal attacks just because someone has an opinion that opposes yours.

 

[Asr]

I'm just trying to offer some common sense on the subject, how does that look like I'm being a "jerk"? All I'm saying is that electronics, technology, and processes can only improve to a point, and that there's a market that exists in the audio industry where the premium being paid is for flash and not substance. Educated people can categorically dismiss an ultra-expensive product because there is a point where a product ceases to be merely functional and more about form. There are other industries that do the same - boutique computers, cars, jewelry, etc. Audio isn't any different.

 

[vcoheda]

i see your point. but you could have worded your prior post better. that's for sure.

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i see your point. but you could have worded your prior post better. that's for sure.

Actually, from what I read, he has posted his views pretty neutrally. Even after you made those personal insults towards him.

But what he says is true, you quit paying for performance after a point and pay for prestige, in fact, often, the designs are beefed up reference designs.

 

[Asr]

Ok sure I could have, but your wording implied a lack of thinking ability which I just found amazing. You've clearly researched those products, so you've likely seen what they look like, along with their price tags. You've seen pics of those I'm sure, and you don't know why they're that expensive? Or maybe you do, it just didn't come across.

 

[vcoheda]

let's just say, i disagree.

 

[viggen]

How about a million dollar violin... decoration for the rich? Degas or Van Gogh?

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viggen /img/forum/go_quote.gif How about a million dollar violin... decoration for the rich? Degas or Van Gogh?

Exactly the same, while you play the million dollar violin, you hear the violin from a different prespective as while you listen them payed by another person, as you are behind the instrument, in most of the cases the sound is not really fully appreciated by the musician rather by the live audience (we all know that for a recording is a waste of time and money given the limitations of those, you will never here the full potentical of an Stradivarius for example, in a recording, and it will sound the same as a yamaha violin) so they are gotten in most of the case for vanity reasons, nor for sound reasons...same as the paintings, you do not need a Van Gogh home, and BTW some of them I will never put in my house not even if they pay me for hanging them here, as they look really horrible to me...aesthetics is very personal...

 

[markl]

Quote:

Ok well I'll come out and say it. This company is an absolute fraud. There is absolutely no purpose in spending $13,000 on any cable, ever. Good cables certainly make a difference, but there are cable companies that make superb cables for 98% less than that. And here's the icing on the cake: Reason 1) "Through December 21, all cables 50% off!" If a cable was really worth $13,000 and cost even half of that to make, they wouldn't be selling it for half price, ever. Reason 2) They will give you a "full price paid for" trade-in upgrade on any Virtual Dynamics cables you have bought. All products lose value over time because better products come out to replace them, and cables are no exception. So they can't obviously resell these cables for their original selling price. And no business is in business to lose money. Therefore, their cables aren't worth a fraction of what they sell for.

With all due respect IpodPJ, why is it seemingly every single youngster who posts here labors under the idea that a product's cost is simply the cost of materials to build it? What about paying all your employees? What about paying for all the equipment? What about paying for your facilities? What about paying for product development? What about the cost of taking it to market? What about advertising costs? And on and on...

You need to know that standard industry practice when you buy any component, is that the distributor is taking roughly 100% margin on everything you buy. If you buy a $1000 amp, generally speaking it cost the distributor $500 to buy it. A rip-off? Well, what about the distributors employees, overhead, facilities, etc.? You have to pay for all that stuff and it is figured into the cost of everything you buy.

If you were a business and you charged materials cost plus 10% on everything you sold, gues what, you'd be bankrupt almost immediately.

VD has distributors, they can't undercut, so if we make some logical assumptions, they set their own direct list price at double the cost of the distributor's wholesale cost. So when they have a half-off sale, they are likely selling at roughly their distributor's cost.

But why would they do that? To prove their products cost much less than they sell for? No! It's called *marketing* and confidence in what you sell. It's called a "loss leader". Some VD noob decides to take a chance on one of their cables now that it's half off. He gets it home, flips out and loves it, and guess what-- he goes back to buy a bunch more after the sale is over. Now he's a lifetime VD buyer, upgrading with every revision.

And you think you'd call it "great customer service" when VD offers you FULL TRADE-IN VALUE on every cable of theirs you buy from them if you want to upgrade in the future. What a deal! Why aren't you applauding that? Who else does something like that? But why do they do it? Marketing. rather than have their customers go out and sell their old VD cord on Audiogon at a loss, give them full retail value so they are compelled to come back to VD and stay in the VD family. Smart, smart, smart....

When you go to the grocercy store and see "buy one box of Cheerios, get one free", where's your outrage at General Mills? After all, they've been "ripping you off" for each single box you bought before the sale...

 

[Sovkiller]

Mark dealer profits are far less than 50%, usually in the range of 20-30, also consider that they are selling online, not by dealers, that cut a lot of people and middle men, and in the last case, we do not "have to" pay for the marketing, just get the stuff from others that do not spend all that moeny on that, and period....

The trade in another fraud, they are trading a cable or 300 for one of 500, none of the two cost that much, and you are getting ripped twice....