I have both these albums of Frank's- I know they're related and linked, as with the subsequent release to Waka/Jawaka, the Grand Wazoo- and I am just falling in love with the brilliance of the arrangements on these records! The range of styles and lucidity and flow between them; the progressiveness and change-ups within tracks and between them, forming the albums; the number of interesting instruments and musical componets goin on around each other and interlaced with one another. It's quite an achievment and exhibits brilliant muscianship! I have ordered the Grand Wazoo and cannot wait to hear it now
. Oh, I also have One Size Fits All, which I havn't listened to yet but that I know is more rock and mainstream orientated, but I am gona wait for Overnite Sensation and Apostrophe to reach me, which I understand to be similar in style and approach, and will listen to them as a trio of sorts also.
Personally, i don't know how you can have One Size Fits All in your possession, and not listen to it! C'mon... give it a spin, you know you want to. In actuality, the arrangements and musicianship on that are quite astounding as well, as they pretty much are on any Zappa album.
Grand Wazoo is actually my favorite of the three you mention, partly because it's so neat hearing what Zappa does with a big band at his disposal. Also, "Eat That Question" is one of my favorite Zappa tracks.
I'm not quite sure I would include Hot Rats as a trio with Waka/Jawaka and GW. It really goes (chronologically as well as musically) with Burnt Weenie Sandwich and Uncle Meat... both of which are also fantastic and provide even more context to Zappa's project/object method of composition.
Originally Posted by VicAjax /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally, i don't know how you can have One Size Fits All in your possession, and not listen to it! C'mon... give it a spin, you know you want to. In actuality, the arrangements and musicianship on that are quite astounding as well, as they pretty much are on any Zappa album.
Grand Wazoo is actually my favorite of the three you mention, partly because it's so neat hearing what Zappa does with a big band at his disposal. Also, "Eat That Question" is one of my favorite Zappa tracks.
I'm not quite sure I would include Hot Rats as a trio with Waka/Jawaka and GW. It really goes (chronologically as well as musically) with Burnt Weenie Sandwich and Uncle Meat... both of which are also fantastic and provide even more context to Zappa's project/object method of composition.
I do want to, you're right, but I'm still trialing a bunch of DAPs I have on an opened-box returns policy, and I'm kinda stuck goin through tunes I know well as I side-test those pieces of kit. I will have to give One Size Fits All a listen like, and probably will before I get the 3 just ordered albums, mentioned in my above post. Thats pretty much a formality!
The reason I mention Hot Rats in conjunction with Waka/Jawaka and GW, is because I understood them, subsequent records, to be like a sequel of sorts to it; well, at least thats what the blurbs on Wikipedia say and the cover of Waka/Jawaka has hot rots written on the taps/forsets depicted in that album art. I do understand how they could be more disparate and tenuous than that though, due to, as you rightly point out, the chronology and time differance between the respective records (both on release, and, I'm guessing, mirroring times of recording). Also, I understand Hot Rats was Zappa's first 'solo'-project after he disbanbed the first incarnation of the Mothers Of Invention, and was more a small band thing, were as W/J and GW were with the next version of the Mothers and were more big band orientated, as you mention again; so an expansion on the precident set by Hot Rats, musically, directionally and compositionally.
Zappa's albums are hard to get (or, should I say, not readily available) and expensive here in the UK. I got most of the ones I own and/or have ordered, so far, through Play.com's Playtrade (though other options are available, the cheapest option is to have them imported, duty free and with free shipping, from Mediatube, a company in Switzeland). I own and have listened to Hot Rats and W/J. I own One Size... but havn't yet listened to it. I have ordered GW, Apostrophe and Overnite Sensation. Though you reference Burnt Weeny Sandwhich and and Uncle Meat.., I understand them to be releases of Zappa and the original Mothers of Invention, post-disbandment. I invisaged these to be albums with a lot of outtakes and/or remixes, odds and ends and the like, and, consequently, ones to get later on. Would you advise against this? Are they that good? I had planned to get Chunga's Revenge and Lumpy Gravy next, again only going off the timeline and descriptions of the albums off Wikipedia, these appearing albums of all new, studio material (I'd leave live til a bit later), around and about the albums I have so far in chronology and timescale, and reportedly profound and reputable releases in his career.
EDIT: Just checked on Wikipedia, and I now realise that Burnt Weent Sandwhich and Weasels Ripped My Fleash were the releases after the disbandment of the original Mothers Of Invention. Uncle Meat is a soundtrack album to a film of the same name I believe, made by Zappa and The Mothers! That any good (the film)?
I would definitely recommend Burnt Weenie Sandwich and Uncle Meat before LG and CR. But I would suggest waiting until the albums you have on order arrive, and depending on which your favorites are, I might recommend picking up a couple of his live albums first.
drop me a PM or post here after you've gotten some time to let them all settle in, and I can suggest some albums I think would be good to order next. You've got plenty of good music coming your way in the meantime.
Once you get into Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation, you might also want to check out the DVD about them released last year. I watched it recently and was very impressed. Dweezil uses the multi-track masters to discuss a lot about Frank's composing process. It was a real eye-opener, and I've been listening to these records for years.
Originally Posted by VicAjax /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would definitely recommend Burnt Weenie Sandwich and Uncle Meat before LG and CR. But I would suggest waiting until the albums you have on order arrive, and depending on which your favorites are, I might recommend picking up a couple of his live albums first.
drop me a PM or post here after you've gotten some time to let them all settle in, and I can suggest some albums I think would be good to order next. You've got plenty of good music coming your way in the meantime.
Cool, that'd be great yeah!
I'll give you a holla when the time's right and I've had a chance to listen to and digest all that I have and/or have coming my way from the Zappa discography. [I did mean to make that clear, ie that I wasn't gona order Chunga's Revenge or Lump Gravy until after I'd had a good listen to the all the material I've got on or coming to my plate, but, from Wikipedia and for the reasons mentioned they seemed, at this stage, a logical move for me when I next buy into his catelogue; obviously, I'm open to reassessing that up until the point I next buy and/or acting on advice from well-seasoned listeners like yourself! (and in keeping with this, you're right that, after listening to all that studio work, live material might be an appealing change-up at that stage and a nice little offshoot to pursue!)]
Originally Posted by hypoicon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Once you get into Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation, you might also want to check out the DVD about them released last year. I watched it recently and was very impressed. Dweezil uses the multi-track masters to discuss a lot about Frank's composing process. It was a real eye-opener, and I've been listening to these records for years.
I wasn't aware of that so thanks for making me aware and I'll bear it in mind. That kind of insider insight is always interesting and usually enlightening.
Well, I'm not feeling particulary eloquent atm, but One Size Fits All and The Grand Wazoo are top albums! The blend of hard rock, progressive rock and comedy rock on One Size... is just that and excellent; thumping, rollocking at times, lucid and changing up smoothly, intelligently and creatively, often smile inducing, also- love that appraoch. GW is more big band and jazzy, but I love that also! Often more delicate and downtempo, it exhibits a more subtle and collaborative finesse, interspersed with more raucious and lively and kinetic moments which I also throughly enjoy listening to!
I have Apostrophe and Over-Nite sensation in my posession and ripped and ready to listen to; will do that tonight or tomorrow!
Of course, I've kept oscillating W/J and Hot Rats into my listening over the last few weeks also, and the songs and compositions and progressions on them continue to grow on me immensly!
N.B.// Though not advised as next listens, I have picked up Chunga's Revenge and Lumpy Gravy on the cheap from Amazon UK and they are on there way to me also (they were, oddly enough, the 2 cheapest and in stock Zappa CD's o Amazon UK at the time I peroused the site before so I though why not?!; still open to leaving them on the shelf and picking up some Zappa live material before visiting them).
Originally Posted by augustwest /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might enjoy this thread that appeared on Steve Hoffmans site about Zappa reissues. You can find it here:
Thanks for that link! Seems like the 4oth Anniversary releases are for seasoned Zappa listeners that have a strong handle on his discography and know the original releases really ie not something I should be looking at yet. I've saved the link though
Zappa is like a music writer from another world. My best friends brother played Hot Rats for us in 1975 when we were 13. Next was Apostrophe,then Zoot Allures, Sheik Yerbouti, Live at the Roxy. 200 Motels, It would be cool to find this stuff out there for future young people. Wessels Ripped My Flesh and Rubin and the Jets have been so pricey on LP. I do not know why because I not sure of the year they came out but Hot Rats and Lumpy Gravy have been grouped together even back in 1975. When I was 13 Apostrophe was my favorite as it seems the most singable when laughing along with friends. Now I would have to say Joe's Garrage is my favorite, but I don't know why.
Now listened to Over-nite Sensation and Apostrophe (') a few times each,and, again they are quality and throughly enjoyable records! They are compilations of, generally, shorter and more simply structured songs, a lot more vocal and comical story weighted (and I do laugh out loud at the innane, idiosyncratic humour on display!), and more groove orientated- and they kick a mean one-, as opposed to overt demonstrations of skill and technical ability (more on show in One Size Fits All, which I think is a great blend of the two styles). Great stuff, growing more enchanting and deep the more I listen! And I now have Bongo Fury, Chung'a Revenge, Lumpy Gravy and Burnt Weeny Sandwich in my possesion and ripped and ready to spin!
N.B.// After my purchase of Over-nite Sensation, I noticed on Play.com that they had a different version up for sale- much more expensive like, as apparently it's limited and, of course, would be an import-, a Japanese print, that had an extra track (slotted in as the first track, ahead of Camarillo Brillo) called 'Over-nite Sensation'! Anyone got this version of the album and/or heard this track? (I know that the Japanese versions of a lot of records have bonus tracks but can anyone shed any light on this track please and, why, as what would've been the title track, it may of been excluded off the standard (US and/or UK) release?)
N.B.2// Also, what are ppl's thoughts and feelings on the first incarnation of the Mothers Of Invention's material; the records before Zappa disbanded them (ie. not Weasels Ripped My Flesh or Burnt Weeny Sandwich; those four before Uncle Meat)?
I have no idea how I missed this thread. Zappa is by far my favorite artist. I saw him in concert about 20 times.
The pre Uncle Meat Mothers albums are very good. The least interesting is Cruising with Ruben and the Jets. It's a doo wop album. My favorites are Absolutely Free and We're Only In It for the Money.
My least favorite Zappa albums are the Flo & Edie ablums, and the synclavier stuff from the 80s. IMO, you can't go wrong with any of the early to mid 70s albums.
My favorite album of all is Grand Wazoo. A recent release, Wazoo, is a recording of the last concert of the Grand Wazoo tour and is very good.
My favorite of the mid 70s is Läther, which was supposed to be a 4 LP boxed set, but Warner Brother's wouldn't put it out. They released some of the music on Sleep Dirt, Studio Tan, and Orchestral Favorites, which Zappa considered unauthorized albums. Some of the music also ended up on Live in New York and Sheik Yer Booti. Zappa won a law suit over it and won control of his entire catalog, which is why his family can still release new music. I own a 4 LP boot of it and I still consider side 1, disk 1 the best side of Zappa that I've heard.
Edit: You can buy albums off of eBay for pretty cheap. I've gotten a few that way.
Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have no idea how I missed this thread. Zappa is by far my favorite artist. I saw him in concert about 20 times.
The pre Uncle Meat Mothers albums are very good. The least interesting is Cruising with Ruben and the Jets. It's a doo wop album. My favorites are Absolutely Free and We're Only In It for the Money.
My least favorite Zappa albums are the Flo & Edie ablums, and the synclavier stuff from the 80s. IMO, you can't go wrong with any of the early to mid 70s albums.
My favorite album of all is Grand Wazoo. A recent release, Wazoo, is a recording of the last concert of the Grand Wazoo tour and is very good.
My favorite of the mid 70s is Läther, which was supposed to be a 4 LP boxed set, but Warner Brother's wouldn't put it out. They released some of the music on Sleep Dirt, Studio Tan, and Orchestral Favorites, which Zappa considered unauthorized albums. Some of the music also ended up on Live in New York and Sheik Yer Booti. Zappa won a law suit over it and won control of his entire catalog, which is why his family can still release new music. I own a 4 LP boot of it and I still consider side 1, disk 1 the best side of Zappa that I've heard.
Edit: You can buy albums off of eBay for pretty cheap. I've gotten a few that way.
Thanks for the input Scompton! Man, you're a lucky bugger havin seen Zappa over 20 times in concert! Being only 21 and from the UK I never had, and, unfortunately, will never have, the opportunity to see him live. Still, he left a truckload of records for me to wade through and enjoy! I was aware of the Sleep Dirt-Studio Tan-Orchestral Favourites and Lather debacle; the whole thing was a lot more convoluted than you overview, as I'm sure you're aware, but still, when I'm at the stage of being ready to buy and listen to that material, I'll try and get both Lather and the individual album releases and compare and contrast them and get the full picture (apparently, even Sleep Dirt was dubbed so, without authorisation, by Warner, Zappa wanting to call it Hot Rats III; wonder why? Did he originally intend to call another, prior release, Hot Rats II?).
I'm lovin Grand Wazoo! It's so collaboratively complex, busy and creative, without feeling in anyway stilted ie very lucid and well executed. I had clocked Wazoo, as a matter of fact, and that it was, as you say, a live album from the Grand Wazoo tour and my attention was piqued! I may get that in the near future, actually, with a little more time with the concordant studio material and/or the fresh Zappa records I've recently obtained!
Thanks, also, for the impressions on the the original Mothers Of Invention albums, pre-Uncle Meat! I had imagined they were pretty solid but as I started my Zappa journey with Hot Rats, I went straight to Waka/Jawaka and Grand Wazoo in the same vein- and One Size Fits All, Over-nite Sensation and Apostrophe (') in a more rock direction- and havn't yet visited the first incaranation of the Mother's work (have just recieved Burnt Weeny Sandwich, though that's post-disbandment of the original Mother's group by Zappa and I havn't listened to it yet). I may well buy Absolutely Free and We're Only In It For the Money with Wazoo next then!
Of the albums you have, Burnt Weany Sandwich is the closest to the early Mothers. The versions I have on both LP and CD aren't the highest fidelity. I keep looking at the MFSL release of Your Only In It For The Money.
Two more to consider if you want to stick to the same era that you've started with are Roxy & Elsewhere and You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore, Vol. 2 The Helsinki Concert. Both are recordings from the 74 tour.
My younger brother actually followed a tour one year and say him 22 times just on that tour. The great thing about Zappa concerts is that every one was different. He didn't have a set play list that he played every show like some bands do. He also did a lot of unreleased material in his concerts. The 2 albums recommended above are great examples. Over half of the music on them is only on them and some of the music was released on later albums.
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. Oh, I also have One Size Fits All, which I havn't listened to yet but that I know is more rock and mainstream orientated, but I am gona wait for Overnite Sensation and Apostrophe to reach me, which I understand to be similar in style and approach, and will listen to them as a trio of sorts also.
