[sns109]

Finally had opportunity to listen to Okto Dac 8 stereo vs. 005, all listening with Statement preamp in chain. Right off pleasantly surprised by Okto, transparency and resolving powers were pretty much as expected, based on measurements and previous subjective reviews. Okto surpassed my expectations in regard to micro and macro dynamics. 005 power supply is positively heroic, Okto power supply relatively minimal. Okto tonality neutral, neither dark or bright sounding. Timbre also pretty damn natural, very similar to 005. Timbre is the one area of sq in 005 in which my estimations continue to evolve. After many more hours listening over several weeks I'm beginning to formulate overall gestalt of 005 as slightly less analog than previously thought. Much of early listening more analog based recordings, lately more digital masters mixed in. And so I'm at point where I'm still evolving on timbre. Should digital masters sound more analog than what I'm hearing? Analog masters sound wonderfully natural. Would a warmer dac make those recording sound overly warm and digital masters just right? I can see a Holo May KTE in my future.

Back to Okto, as previously mentioned transparency and resolution top notch. Better than my aural memory of Auralic Vega and at least as good as LKS 004. 005 just beats it out in the amount of low level information conveyed. I hear a bit more of recording venue, and other cues that make sound just that bit more true to life. Okto kind of smooths over that information, not in the sense of Vega which missed it altogether, but just a little more in background, makes it slightly more difficult to hear INTO the recording. The other area where the 005 beats out Okto is micro dynamics, 005 breaths a little more realistically, Okto sounds just that little bit less human. Still, I would say Okto deficiencies here are rather minor, in many systems you wouldn't be able to discern these differences. Okto really excels in transparency, neutral tonality and timbre, no complaints here, in fact some may hear Okto as being more natural than 005 as the extra low level information of 005 can sometimes make it sound more incisive than Okto. And so less natural recordings may sound slightly more natural than 005, sometimes higher resolving powers are not well served. I'm really surprised by macro dynamics along with depth and power of bass, reach of bass very similar to 005, sometimes sounds like subwoofer added to system. Amazing considering Okto's minimalist internals! I expected 005 to far surpass Okto here, superior power supply, parts quality and sheer weight of the two units, 005 probably weighs double the Okto, and that is not all in casing.

And so, my overall take is Okto is a killer dac, especially at $1500. This kind of sq previously cost many multiples of Okto, no brainer at this price. Many systems won't benefit from 005 greater resolving powers, or any other more resolving, and more costly dacs. I could easily live with Okto in my setup, as previously mentioned more resolving power isn't necessarily a good thing. Okto may be perfect balance between resolution and forgiving nature.

 

[JecklinStax]

Sns109, thanks for another interesting comparative dac review! We cannot have enough of those as a foundation for a buying decision. Practically no one has access to two or more interesting dac's at the same time to hear how they really compete. Incidentally I found another one: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?71908-Okto-Research-DAC8-Stereo-Streamer&p=1245958 (Okto vs Topping D90).

 

[DBB1]

Thanks to SNS for an excellent post. I am interested in this dac as I've had a 004 for a few years and thinking of upgrading.

I found a brief review on the Shenzhen Audio site that is of interest in the goal of finding comparisons to other dacs.

From Shenzhen Audio site:

Huge soundstage, excellent depth and detail. I had the DA-005 in Boston one week after ordering - well packed and no damage. Mustec is well regarded for musical products and I was not disappointed. I was only able to compare directly with a $9,000 Lampizator with upgraded capacitors, resistors, and tubes on an all tube system. The Lampi did have better depth and focus, but at 3x the cost! I am quite satisfied with the performance for my daily listening, and certainly don't hear anything missing without direct comparison. I wish there were reviews in English so more audiophiles can learn of this excellent product.

 

[Lennym]

I was an early adopter of the DA-004 and have been very happy with it. I have a lot of confidence in the designer and now have a DA-005 on the way.

Meanwhile I found this Taiwanese site interesting with more information and pictures. https://www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?22029904818623 If I'm not mistaken it looks like the analog transistors are placed on the bottom of the analog circuit eventually heat sinking them to the bottom aluminum plate, as was done on later production of the DA-004. Am I correct? There's also a graphic, but in Mandarin, explaining more about the special nature of the power supply. As it is a graphic it is not Google-translatable. The power supply is described as something very special including, "power regeneration." If anyone understands exactly what has been done here, an explanation would be much appreciated. It would also be interesting to discover where the new crystal came from.

I'm looking forward to sharing impressions.

 

[sns109]

I was an early adopter of the DA-004 and have been very happy with it. I have a lot of confidence in the designer and now have a DA-005 on the way.

Meanwhile I found this Taiwanese site interesting with more information and pictures. https://www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?22029904818623 If I'm not mistaken it looks like the analog transistors are placed on the bottom of the analog circuit eventually heat sinking them to the bottom aluminum plate, as was done on later production of the DA-004. Am I correct? There's also a graphic, but in Mandarin, explaining more about the special nature of the power supply. As it is a graphic it is not Google-translatable. The power supply is described as something very special including, "power regeneration." If anyone understands exactly what has been done here, an explanation would be much appreciated. It would also be interesting to discover where the new crystal come from.

I'm looking forward to sharing impressions.

I was an early adopter of the DA-004 and have been very happy with it. I have a lot of confidence in the designer and now have a DA-005 on the way.

Meanwhile I found this Taiwanese site interesting with more information and pictures. https://www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?22029904818623 If I'm not mistaken it looks like the analog transistors are placed on the bottom of the analog circuit eventually heat sinking them to the bottom aluminum plate, as was done on later production of the DA-004. Am I correct? There's also a graphic, but in Mandarin, explaining more about the special nature of the power supply. As it is a graphic it is not Google-translatable. The power supply is described as something very special including, "power regeneration." If anyone understands exactly what has been done here, an explanation would be much appreciated. It would also be interesting to discover where the new crystal came from.

I'm looking forward to sharing impressions.

www://mu-sound.com has most info as to this than I've found elsewhere. I believe power supply uses supercapacitors. My 005 takes approximately two minutes to charge these supercapacitors from standby state. Supercapacitors are essentially batteries, therefore, store power. This is what I think they mean by "power regeneration."

 

[JecklinStax]

I was an early adopter of the DA-004 and have been very happy with it. I have a lot of confidence in the designer and now have a DA-005 on the way.

Meanwhile I found this Taiwanese site interesting with more information and pictures. https://www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?22029904818623 If I'm not mistaken it looks like the analog transistors are placed on the bottom of the analog circuit eventually heat sinking them to the bottom aluminum plate, as was done on later production of the DA-004. Am I correct? There's also a graphic, but in Mandarin, explaining more about the special nature of the power supply. As it is a graphic it is not Google-translatable. The power supply is described as something very special including, "power regeneration." If anyone understands exactly what has been done here, an explanation would be much appreciated. It would also be interesting to discover where the new crystal came from.

I'm looking forward to sharing impressions.

You will be pleasantly surprised, as I was. You won't be sorry!

 

[TPSRA]

I was an early adopter of the DA-004 and have been very happy with it. I have a lot of confidence in the designer and now have a DA-005 on the way.

Meanwhile I found this Taiwanese site interesting with more information and pictures. https://www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?22029904818623 If I'm not mistaken it looks like the analog transistors are placed on the bottom of the analog circuit eventually heat sinking them to the bottom aluminum plate, as was done on later production of the DA-004. Am I correct? There's also a graphic, but in Mandarin, explaining more about the special nature of the power supply. As it is a graphic it is not Google-translatable. The power supply is described as something very special including, "power regeneration." If anyone understands exactly what has been done here, an explanation would be much appreciated. It would also be interesting to discover where the new crystal came from.

I'm looking forward to sharing impressions.

They are using super capacitor as battery, and a ping-pong charging system: when capacitor A is providing power, system charge capacitor B. And after A is close to empty, system switch to using B as source and starts charging A, and the cycle continues. This is to make sure no AC noise is passed into the DAC and everything works just like pure battery powered

 

[Lennym]

I've been playing the Musetec for two days now. It's much too early to evaluate, but a few things are clear. I play mostly classical music, and have been playing very familiar tracks. Comparison, of course, is with the 004 that I really like a lot. No question, but there's far more low level information out of the 005. Second, the music seems to float apart from the system. I used to think that my speakers were invisible for most recordings; more so now. Finally the bass at the lowest level, the feel level, is clearly enhanced. Experience, though, tells me that this guy needs a lot of break-in.

I do have some questions. Perhaps you can help. The number of PCM filters has been reduced. Does anyone know why this might be? I thought they were all in the chip. Also, given the super capacitors, is it better to leave the DAC full-on all the time as I have done with all my solid state devices. Or is it better to treat it like a tube unit and turn it on and back to stand-by each day of use? My tube preamp "off" is really a stand-by with a real off switch in the back like the 005. A question for the factory? What do you guys do?

Last first impression is that they have done a beautiful job with the case. It's very slick; quite nice. And also very heavy.

 

[DBB1]

I've been playing the Musetec for two days now. It's much too early to evaluate, but a few things are clear. I play mostly classical music, and have been playing very familiar tracks. Comparison, of course, is with the 004 that I really like a lot. No question, but there's far more low level information out of the 005. Second, the music seems to float apart from the system. I used to think that my speakers were invisible for most recordings; more so now. Finally the bass at the lowest level, the feel level, is clearly enhanced. Experience, though, tells me that this guy needs a lot of break-in.

I do have some questions. Perhaps you can help. The number of PCM filters has been reduced. Does anyone know why this might be? I thought they were all in the chip. Also, given the super capacitors, is it better to leave the DAC full-on all the time as I have done with all my solid state devices. Or is it better to treat it like a tube unit and turn it on and back to stand-by each day of use? My tube preamp "off" is really a stand-by with a real off switch in the back like the 005. A question for the factory? What do you guys do?

Last first impression is that they have done a beautiful job with the case. It's very slick; quite

I'm looking forward to your impressions. I too have the 004 and have been very happy. I felt the 004 credibly approached lp sound. Since I mostly listen to classical your take will most likely be similar to what mine would be. I hope for very clear improvement in 3d sound stage, dynamics, and natural timber. The 004 was very good in these categories and the descriptions so far suggest that I will not be disappointed.

I'm also considering the Holo Audio May if I decide to splurge. It would be great to hear a comparison of the 005 and the May. I'm hoping the 005 would make it close or even.

 

[sns109]

Lennym, can't tell you why filters reduced to two, hasn't bothered me much as 005 sounds great in either of the two. Having said that, I do generally use it in slow m, just as I did with 004, seems just a bit more analog vs. fast setting. I've always set unit to standby as I never listen to my system for perhaps an hour after initial startup, tubes take this long to come on song. I also wonder about wear and tear on supercapacitors if left on 24/7? On the other hand, my Singxer SU-6 also has supercapacitors and doesn't even have a power switch.

DBB1, the 005 excels in all those audio parameters, you won't regret purchasing the 005 by any means. I too would love to see a comparison with Holo May Kitsune edition.

I also done some further exploration of 005 in various configurations that may have some bearing in other's purchasing decision. I've recently been running the 005 with Schitt Saga passive/tube buffer and Duelund DCA 16ga speaker wire. Schitt in tube buffer mode with 1940's Sylvania JAN (joint army navy) 6sn7W. Sound quality has maintained inherent magical qualities of 005. While there has been some marginal losses with micro and macro dynamics, a slight lessening of that sense of breath from performers and just the slightest compression during louder, complex passage. In speaking of these marginal losses, I only hear this in direct comparison with my Coincident Statement preamp; one likely wouldn't hear these liabilities minus a top flight active preamp in house. I believe this speaks to high quality power supply of 005, this thing can really drive a passive preamp, still wouldn't recommend 005 driving amp, too much bit loss using dac volume. In every other parameter of sound the Schitt is very satisfying, not grossly inferior to Statement, this only in tube buffer mode, passive mode loses some of meat on bones aspect of tube mode. Amazing the $400 retail price Schitt plus the relatively high priced Sylvania tube (stock Russian 68HC lower level of performance) competes this well with$6k Statement, plus the $750 set of tubes and $300 Amtrans rotary selectors on my Coincident. I can also confidently state the performance of Schitt exceeds the passive only pre section of my Coincident Turbo 845 SE amp. I'd advise best performance of 005 will be with tube buffer rather than passive preamp. The 005 is a Sabre chip dac, and while it is capable of analog like timbre, my experience is it can also sound just a bit analytical if not partnered sympathetically. Taking the 005 on it's own, I'd evaluate it as a neutral sounding device, you can color it with partnering equipment, cables.

And so the point of this exercise is to point out the 005 will retain it's magical essence even in more real world setups; lower price passive preamps/tube buffers and relatively low cost speaker cable (Duelund DCA 16ga $9.60 per meter) need not be an impediment. In speaking to Duelund cable, check out the many positive reviews on interwebs. I may even retain the Duelund over the Cardas Golden Ref I've been using quite satisfactorily for over 20 years, and which I've directly compared in my system to many much higher priced cables. Golden Ref just a really good balance of positive attributes. It wouldn't surprise me if Duelund is the keeper, I've found it beneficial in many configurations.

My next experiment with 005 will be foregoing 005 usb input in favor of I2S input via HDMI (Harmonic Technologies half meter HDMI cable) out of my Singxer SU-6 powered by Uptone JS-2 LPS. Some report better performance via I2S on I2S capable dacs, including with 004 dac.

 

[ti5002000]

I've been playing the Musetec for two days now. It's much too early to evaluate, but a few things are clear. I play mostly classical music, and have been playing very familiar tracks. Comparison, of course, is with the 004 that I really like a lot. No question, but there's far more low level information out of the 005. Second, the music seems to float apart from the system. I used to think that my speakers were invisible for most recordings; more so now. Finally the bass at the lowest level, the feel level, is clearly enhanced. Experience, though, tells me that this guy needs a lot of break-in.

I do have some questions. Perhaps you can help. The number of PCM filters has been reduced. Does anyone know why this might be? I thought they were all in the chip. Also, given the super capacitors, is it better to leave the DAC full-on all the time as I have done with all my solid state devices. Or is it better to treat it like a tube unit and turn it on and back to stand-by each day of use? My tube preamp "off" is really a stand-by with a real off switch in the back like the 005. A question for the factory? What do you guys do?

Last first impression is that they have done a beautiful job with the case. It's very slick; quite nice. And also very heavy.

Hi Lennym

Which filters are available for PCM in the 005?

Thanks

 

[DBB1]

.

DBB1, the 005 excels in all those audio parameters, you won't regret purchasing the 005 by any means. I too would love to see a comparison with Holo May Kitsune edition.

I'm sure I would be happy with the 005 since I was with the 004. On the other hand, if the May is substantially better (not just a little better or roughly even) than the 005, I rather go directly to the May. My worry is that I buy the May and the 005 turns out to be just as good. Many thought the 004 was better than more expensive competition.

 

[Lennym]

Hi Lennym

Which filters are available for PCM in the 005?

Thanks

Fast Roll-off, Linear Phase Filter
Slow Roll-off, Linear Phase Filter

 

[Lennym]

<snip>
It would be great to hear a comparison of the 005 and the May.

I would guess the chances of that happening are pretty slim. Even if you could read of such a comparison, the outcome might very well depend on type of music auditioned and associated components. You may have to make a decision (or not) with much less than perfect information.

I made a decision for the 004, a chip based DAC, rather than R2R because as a listener to classical music I want the detail that can so easily be obscured in symphonic recordings. But, of course, not the stridency that can be there too. The 004 did it for me. Since then I have upgraded other components so now the DAC.

You are looking at two terrific DACs. Good luck whichever way you go.

 

[DBB1]

I would guess the chances of that happening are pretty slim. Even if you could read of such a comparison, the outcome might very well depend on type of music auditioned and associated components. You may have to make a decision (or not) with much less than perfect information.

I made a decision for the 004, a chip based DAC, rather than R2R because as a listener to classical music I want the detail that can so easily be obscured in symphonic recordings. But, of course, not the stridency that can be there too. The 004 did it for me. Since then I have upgraded other components so now the DAC.

You are looking at two terrific DACs. Good luck whichever way you go.

I agree with you on detail in symphonic music. I had tubes for awhile and appreciated the body and dimension but found clarity, especially in symphonic music, was reduced so I stuck with high quality solid state. Your point that the May may not be as revealing of detail as the 005 may be correct. I almost ordered the May a couple of days ago but decided to wait.