[JecklinStax]

Sns109 was kind enough to lend his Okto Dac8 Stereo. Will be comparing to Auralic Altair both as DAC and streamer. Initial impressions are positive. Will post detailed review after more extensive run-in.

Looking forward to it!

 

[sanvara]

Wow! Two hundred-something pages on the D004, and just one page on the D005? I wonder if LKS/Musetec simply priced themselves out of a larger market share with the D005.

Maybe so. Very few people are going to spend over $3k on a DAC. That's rarified air. You can find the DA004 for around $800 used which is a steal.

 

[sns109]

Price is all relative, for some this is a cheap or mid price dac. Having said that, looking at dacs for sale on various used audio sites it does seem $1500 or lower dacs dominate. There is just so much competition in realm of digital audio these days, golden days indeed. I'd also add, many lower priced dacs today outperform far more expensive dacs of past.

Jacklinstax, my take on burn in is there are real physical changes going on with various audio parts, film and electrolytic caps need time to form, a well known phenomenom. Cable and wire burn in concepts may be less provable, dialectics are thought to burn in at different rates, micro fractures that relax and/or heal. So many other theories, still don't have proper measurement criteria to prove or disprove. In the end, its all beside the point with me. I figure I'm burning in my mind/brain and equipment at same time. The reason I never make final judgements on new parts or equipment for many hours of listening, insures the mind and equipment are burned in. Always informative to return to prior state of system where possible. There have been a few times when I thought a new part was an improvement over hundreds of hours listening, then upon reinsertion of previous part I removed, preferred the old part. And to think this exact same scenario could repeat itself; talk about going in circles. I always imagined a scenario in which one could do a time warp thing, returning to a many years old setup in real time to compare with new setup. I have no doubt resolution is the one thing we are making great progress on, especially digital, amazing how much information is on lowly 16/44! Still waiting to hear what I imagine is it's full potential.

 

[JecklinStax]

We agree on the amazing information in 16/44 files! It seems we can fully extract it only since recent years. On burn-in: I always found it takes a few weeks to get to know the level of performance of a new device really well, by listening to a lot of music. Different words for the same process? Anyway, yesterday evening the 005 impressed me mightily again, on a varied menu of rock and classical. I never heard such spatial qualities, transparancy and fullness of sound.

 

[moss]

Hello all. I have been running my 005 for about 200 hours. I assumed that it would be better than my EVS modified 004, but I was not prepared for the level of improvement. It is pretty much better at every point of comparison that I can think of. Highs, lows, detail, and richness. The speed of percussion impact is stunning. So much fun. Vocal ballad seem to appear out of pure blackness. The interesting news is that, as good as it is, it is still improving daily. I can't wait to see what the future holds.

 

[sanvara]

Hello all. I have been running my 005 for about 200 hours. I assumed that it would be better than my EVS modified 004, but I was not prepared for the level of improvement. It is pretty much better at every point of comparison that I can think of. Highs, lows, detail, and richness. The speed of percussion impact is stunning. So much fun. Vocal ballad seem to appear out of pure blackness. The interesting news is that, as good as it is, it is still improving daily. I can't wait to see what the future holds.

What other gear are you using with it? I'd expect to need pretty high end components to benefit from the improvement?

 

[JecklinStax]

Hello all. I have been running my 005 for about 200 hours. I assumed that it would be better than my EVS modified 004, but I was not prepared for the level of improvement. It is pretty much better at every point of comparison that I can think of. Highs, lows, detail, and richness. The speed of percussion impact is stunning. So much fun. Vocal ballad seem to appear out of pure blackness. The interesting news is that, as good as it is, it is still improving daily. I can't wait to see what the future holds.

Welcome Moss! You are the third 005 buyer speaking out here, broadening the feedback base that I aimed for with this thread.

 

[moss]

What other gear are you using with it? I'd expect to need pretty high end components to benefit from the improvement?

My associated equipment is in line price wise with the 005, but I like to think are good value, as I believe the 005 to be, in spite of its price. My preamp is the Horn Shoppe "The Truth", streamer / server is the Evo 432 High End, Empirical Audio Off Ramp 5, and Music Reference RM-9SE. My speakers are home made open baffle near full range Lii Audio Silver 10.

 

[sns109]

Moss, good to hear your enjoying 005. I expect we'll see more 005 purchasers here or other forums as I've personally fielded interest in 005 from private emails. I've been trying 005 in various configurations over the past two weeks, I'll report findings after this weekend. I also expect to put my Okto Dac 8 stereo in main system next week for comparison.

 

[oldearwax]

... My speakers are home made open baffle near full range Lii Audio Silver 10.

Thank you for the 005 review.
Do you have (need) crossover for your Lii full range speakers ? What do you think of Lii speakers ?

 

[moss]

Thank you for the 005 review.
Do you have (need) crossover for your Lii full range speakers ? What do you think of Lii speakers ?

I love the Lii speakers. I am using the Silver 10. They are probably as close to a true full range that I have heard. None of the usual upper midrange hardness. Depending on the type of music you listen to, you may not need any other drivers top or bottom. I didn't realize how much low end they had until I got the 005.

 

[oldearwax]

I love the Lii speakers. I am using the Silver 10. They are probably as close to a true full range that I have heard. None of the usual upper midrange hardness. Depending on the type of music you listen to, you may not need any other drivers top or bottom. I didn't realize how much low end they had until I got the 005.

Thank you. So your amp is directly coupled to the terminals of the Lii, ie., there is no crossover in between the amp and the speakers ? TIA.

 

[moss]

Thank you. So your amp is directly coupled to the terminals of the Lii, ie., there is no crossover in between the amp and the speakers ? TIA.

That is correct. I will add some OB woofers soon, but I will probably still run the Liis full range.

 

[JecklinStax]

Price is all relative, for some this is a cheap or mid price dac. Having said that, looking at dacs for sale on various used audio sites it does seem $1500 or lower dacs dominate. There is just so much competition in realm of digital audio these days, golden days indeed. I'd also add, many lower priced dacs today outperform far more expensive dacs of past.

Jacklinstax, my take on burn in is there are real physical changes going on with various audio parts, film and electrolytic caps need time to form, a well known phenomenom. Cable and wire burn in concepts may be less provable, dialectics are thought to burn in at different rates, micro fractures that relax and/or heal. So many other theories, still don't have proper measurement criteria to prove or disprove. In the end, its all beside the point with me. I figure I'm burning in my mind/brain and equipment at same time. The reason I never make final judgements on new parts or equipment for many hours of listening, insures the mind and equipment are burned in. Always informative to return to prior state of system where possible. There have been a few times when I thought a new part was an improvement over hundreds of hours listening, then upon reinsertion of previous part I removed, preferred the old part. And to think this exact same scenario could repeat itself; talk about going in circles. I always imagined a scenario in which one could do a time warp thing, returning to a many years old setup in real time to compare with new setup. I have no doubt resolution is the one thing we are making great progress on, especially digital, amazing how much information is on lowly 16/44! Still waiting to hear what I imagine is it's full potential.

You are right about burning in the 005. After 3 weeks of daily use positive changes are audible. Bass is deeper and heavier, but stays tight, and there is no trace of digital-ness any more. This is one great machine!

 

[sns109]

And so I've been using 005 in a couple different new configurations. Original configuration was 005 balanced out to Coincident Statement active preamp, SE (RCA) out to 300B monoblocks. First new configuration was 005 RCA direct out to Coincident 845SET. In this configuration dac is driving amp, 005 digital volume control. This config was not optimum in any sense of the word, digital volume attenuation was around 75% of full volume. While initially impressed by resolution and transparency, tonality thin, timbre off, soundstage, imaging off, no magic, sound quality of cheap dac. Obviously bit stripping going on here, no way this config will come close to exposing potential of 005. My take is dac direct configs can't attenuate volume by much more than 10%, and even then you won't hear full potential of any dac.

Next config was 005 rca out direct to 845 amp in integrated amp mode. Coincident 845 can be used as integrated with built in passive pre, volume control resistor based, or in bypass mode where it is amplifier only. In this mode sound quality challenges original config of Coincident active pre in chain, however, there are differences. The overall gestalt of the non-active pre setup was just slightly to the analytical side of spectrum. 300b amps with active pre is more analog in character, how'd I imagine a ladder dac would sound. The other config is more sabre chip in character. I could also describe 300b with active pre as warmer, in that tonal balance is more toward the lower mid, although I hear it objectively as dead neutra; its only in direct comparison with 845 setup's upper mid centric tonality that I hear it that way. 845 setup has a more wispy, airy character to it, kind of accentuates that area of freq spectrum. 300b setup feels more solid and driven which is the opposite of what I would expect as my 845 excels in comparison to the 300b in those exact areas. And so, the active pre obviously has greater drive, impact than passive in 845. And yet, when listening to 845 with passive I don't feel deprived in these areas. I purposely played a lot of electronica, particularly electronic dance music, plenty of depth in bass, impact and drive, not lacking in objective terms, very involving. More intimate music also excellent with 845 passive, magic of 005 was there in full measure.

At this point, I can't decide which setup I prefer, both are involving and magical. The passive setup may actually be bit more resolving which counteracts the greater drive, impact, more analog sound of active setup. I'm very familiar with the inherent sound quality differences of my 845 vs 300b amps, the differences I'm hearing have much more to do with active vs passive pre's, and specifically the volume control used within, 845 resistor based, Statement transformer based. And so I'd estimate an active pre is not absolutely necessary to hear full potential of 005. I am a firm believer in analog volume control, no digital and no software volume control for me. In relating this to phone users, I assume most headphone amps have passive volume control, 005 will excel here. Now, as to various iterations of volume control and my estimation of quality. Transformer based> resistor based> potentiometers. Pots have tracking issues, noisier than resistor and trans based. Resistor based can be excellent depending on quality of resistors, but resistors vary in tolerance, heat can be issue, and tolerances can change over time. TVC's don't have these issues. So all things being equal I still prefer tvc's based on durability and constancy. So what I'm saying is amp with passive pre (volume control built in, not separate box which needs another interconnect to drive) is great with 005, built in passive with tvc is optimum. I'd also add it's quite a big deal that 005 can drive a passive pre this well. Dac's and phono pre's are not designed to drive amps, they are designed to drive preamps, preamps are designed to drive amps. The purpose of preamps is to amplify low level signals to useful levels for amps. The fact the 005 does so well is due to superior power supply and well designed output stage.