[Whazzzup]

How bout them museum grade Hawaiian koa

 

[AppleheadMay]

How bout them museum grade Hawaiian koa

Check blackline spalted maple, I have a pair of those for sale.
The pair I'm keeping is marbled african ebony.

Both great looking woods!

 

[fuzzybaffy]

 as i said, the pursuit of high fidelity sound is the pursuit of an ideal, and there are myriad approaches taken by audio designers/manufacturers to attain it. john grado's approach is one of them and i wouldn't presume to know whether he cares about accuracy or not, or if he puts much stock in objective measurements either. you'd best ask him about that. does the ps1000 fall short of high fidelity sound reproduction compared to the hd800? well the objective measurements suggest that it does, but they don't tell the whole story as we know or should know. i understand what the objective measurements tell me, but that doesn't alter the fact that i happen to like the way the ps1000 reproduces recorded music.

 
That's very different than what you said earlier, isn't it? You said: 
 

whereas hi fi gear endeavours to reproduce any recorded sound faithfully.

 
You admit you don't know whether Grado takes stock in accuracy or not. Yet, a few posts earlier, you made this incredibly broad claim that hi-fi gear is about reproducing sound "faithfully". So... which is it? Is all of hi-fi about accurate reproduction, or do manufacturers have different niches they want to fill? 
 
 

when i refer to an overall evaluation of headphones, i'm referring to objective measurements and subjective perception

 
Ok... but you do realize everybody has different criteria for evaluating headphones, right? Some people only care about objective measurements. Some people care about their subjective experiences. And others, like you, care about both. This should tell you that not all headphones fill the same niche. And the creators of these headphones, most likely, know that (like Grado) as well, and create their headphones accordingly. 
 

i wouldn't presume to know which headphones are being used in professional recording studios across the entire united states. and given that the existence of a survey that supports or refutes your claim is unlikely, you're not at any risk of losing your th900's in a bet now are you? 

 
Yea... but I'm still saying that I would if it were possible, because I'm that much confident with the claim. The claim being, that professional recording studios, most likely use more HD-800's for the purpose of monitoring tracks, than something like a PS-1000. 
 

we've been over this. of course an analogy is not an equation. however, there is such a thing as a flawed analogy, which the musical instrument analogy clearly is for the reasons that i've already given. yet you persist with it regardless, which is puzzling.

 
So let's agree to disagree on this, yes? 
 

 i disagree that this discussion relates to the th900. it is patently off-topic imo, but if you wish to continue with it then that's your prerogative. i'm out, however.

 
I think it's pertinent to this discussion, because whitigir has been trying to explain why he likes the TH-900, despite it being considered a "non-neutral" or "V-shaped" headphone. My take on this matter -that different headphones fill different niches/purposes- is meant to affirm and validate whitigir's opinions. 
 
If you're out, then you can stop responding.  

 

[up late]

sigh. this is becoming very tedious. in response to your points:

no, it's not at all different to what i've been saying, and i refer you back to my three previous posts where you can confirm that for yourself. as i've been saying, high fidelity equipment endeavours to reproduce any recorded sound faithfully. that is the ideal. however, audio designers/manufacturers pursue that ideal in myriad ways which yield varying results. i referred to the ps1000 and hd800 as examples of this. is that really so hard for you to comprehend?

in response to your second point - see above. also, it was you who said that "it's clear by the way grado's sound that there are certain things that grado doesn't care about at all, when it comes to accuracy". that's your presumption and my response was that i wouldn't presume to know that.

we can evaluate headphones subjectively and objectively. we can choose to do it one way or the other, or both ways. we know that headphones do sound different and that folks have their personal sonic preferences - nothing new under the sun there. we also know that grado for example, have different series of headphones. the ps1000 is the pinnacle of their range. it is filling a different market segment or niche if you will, than the sr60 which is their entry level model. grado's marketing would have us believe that the ps1000 brings us closer to "true high fidelity sound" than the sr60 can. if that's the kind of niche that you're referring to then we have a rare moment of agreement, but i suspect that you're referring to a different kind of "niche".

in response to your fourth point - sorry but your claim is baseless until you provide factual evidence in support of it

in response to your fifth point - well if you're unwilling to concede that your choice of analogy is misguided, then i guess we'll have to agree to disagree

in response to your sixth point - you're reaching again. there isn't even a tenuous link to the th900 in this discussion.

and finally - if you would stop quoting my posts and persisting with this argument then i would be out. i did ask on the previous page that we move on from this if you recall. if you intend to continue posting about this topic here then please leave me out of it.

ps i'm responding on my cell which is why i can't multi-quote

 

[iancraig10]

sigh. this is becoming very tedious.

Quite right.

Why do people enjoying hifi get so uppity about so many things? All over a headphone. Or because someone repeated a question that was asked earlier in a thread in excess of 2000 posts?

I thought hifi was about enjoyment of music but since the 'search' facility was mentioned earlier, I did one for the sake of this theoretical drivel......

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803863/neutral-reference-sound

As I see so often on HF .... Search is your friend.

 

[up late]

thanks for that. hopefully he'll take it there.

 

[Whazzzup]

sigh. this is becoming very tedious.

Quite right.

Why do people enjoying hifi get so uppity about so many things? All over a headphone. Or because someone repeated a question that was asked earlier in a thread in excess of 2000 posts?

I thought hifi was about enjoyment of music but since the 'search' facility was mentioned earlier, I did one for the sake of this theoretical drivel......

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803863/neutral-reference-sound

As I see so often on HF .... Search is your friend.

Fantastic link, good read.

How bout them museum grade Hawaiian koa

 

[up late]

what about them? they're lawton ear cups right? i believe there's a few threads dedicated to lawton mods for posts like yours. the search function is your friend too.

 

[phonomat]

Congratulations on your 3000th post, @up late!

 

[up late]

lol! thanks.

 

[phonomat]

There you go.

 

[up late]

didn't see that coming

 

[fuzzybaffy]

no, it's not at all different to what i've been saying, and i refer you back to my three previous posts where you can confirm that for yourself. as i've been saying, high fidelity equipment endeavours to reproduce any recorded sound faithfully. that is the ideal. however, audio designers/manufacturers pursue that ideal in myriad ways which yield varying results. i referred to the ps1000 and hd800 as examples of this. is that really so hard for you to comprehend?

 
Yes, it is hard to comprehend, because how can you make the assumption that all headphone manufacturers "endeavor to reproduce any recorded sound faithfully", when their results are so wildly different (PS-1000 vs. HD-800)? Occam's Razor would state that instead, one manufacturer doesn't care as much about "faithful reproduction" as the other. 
 

in response to your second point - see above. also, it was you who said that "it's clear by the way grado's sound that there are certain things that grado doesn't care about at all, when it comes to accuracy". that's your presumption and my response was that i wouldn't presume to know that.

 
Right... but it's also your presumption that all manufacturers seek to "reproduce sound faithfully". For me, I'm using the evidence (see what I wrote about Occam's Razor above) and intuition. 
 

 we can evaluate headphones subjectively and objectively. we can choose to do it one way or the other, or both ways. we know that headphones do sound different and that folks have their personal sonic preferences - nothing new under the sun there. we also know that grado for example, have different series of headphones. the ps1000 is the pinnacle of their range. it is filling a different market segment or niche if you will, than the sr60 which is their entry level model. grado's marketing would have us believe that the ps1000 brings us closer to "true high fidelity sound" than the sr60 can. if that's the kind of niche that you're referring to then we have a rare moment of agreement, but i suspect that you're referring to a different kind of "niche". 

 
No, we're in a bit of agreement here. So apply the same concept you've shown here, not just within Grado's lineup, but across different manufacturers. Then wouldn't you agree that some manufacturers have different goals and purposes than others? 
 

 in response to your fourth point - sorry but your claim is baseless until you provide factual evidence in support of it

 
Claim is without factual evidence, but that doesn't mean I can't speculate. And it's an educated speculation, based on my experiences with both Sennheiser and Grado headphones, and what I've read people say about both headphones. 
 
 

 and finally - if you would stop quoting my posts and persisting with this argument then i would be out. i did ask on the previous page that we move on from this if you recall. if you intend to continue posting about this topic here then please leave me out of it.

 
Not exactly sure what you want me to do. You keep saying you want to move on, yet you keep responding. 

 If you want to move on, then just stop responding. It's your choice. 
 
I admit I'm being a little bit passionate, but I feel like I'm keeping things civil - I haven't thrown insults at you. 
 
 

Quite right.

Why do people enjoying hifi get so uppity about so many things? All over a headphone. Or because someone repeated a question that was asked earlier in a thread in excess of 2000 posts?

I thought hifi was about enjoyment of music but since the 'search' facility was mentioned earlier, I did one for the sake of this theoretical drivel......

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803863/neutral-reference-sound

As I see so often on HF .... Search is your friend.

 
That's funny... so up late can respond as much as he wants, but I can't? 
 
And actually... yes, I did do a search for "coloration" in this thread, and most of the results were merely people talking about whether or not the TH-900 was "colored", and whether or not people preferred this coloration. 
 
The conversation I'm having right now, however, is about whether this coloration is done on purpose or not, whether it's the manufactuers' intent to make colored headphones, colored.  There's a slight difference. 

 

[Whazzzup]

Oh it was done on purpose.

How bout them museum grade Hawaiian k....

 

[AppleheadMay]

Oh it was done on purpose.

How bout them museum grade Hawaiian k....

 
Hawaiian what?