[Canadian411]

I believe there are two types of r10 right?
Bass heavy and the neutral one?

 

[rsbrsvp]

Yes.
 
I own a LA900 and it is absolutely in the R10 family of sound.  It lacks that euphonic and mellow midrange which made the R10 so special.  On the other hand- the LA900 is more alive than the R10 was.
 
I want to ask headfiers who have experience if the LA7000 may get that midrange closer to the R10's???

 

[En_R]

I believe there are two types of r10 right?
Bass heavy and the neutral one?

 
4 different drivers actually, the later ones (#4) are more like modified CD3000 drivers since they ran out of r10 stock.
 
Bass has more to do with the damping foam/ foam rings inside the R10 and different states of decay- earlier ones have less bass since most of the foam is deteriorated. Once replaced all revisions have almost the same amount of bass in terms of quantity.

Nothing like the TH900 bass though, which is overwhelming in both quantity and impact.

 

 

[up late]

think that's overstating the th900's bass weight tbh

 

[zolkis]

4 different drivers actually, the later ones (#4) are more like modified CD3000 drivers since they ran out of r10 stock.

Bass has more to do with the damping foam/ foam rings inside the R10 and different states of decay- earlier ones have less bass since most of the foam is deteriorated. Once replaced all revisions have almost the same amount of bass in terms of quantity.


Nothing like the TH900 bass though, which is overwhelming in both quantity and impact.


 

Interesting. The same is true about the TH900. Changing the foam ring damper changes the sound in similar ways. With wool felt dampers the TH900 does have a magical midrange, and more correct bass. I was thinking to make a fully wooden assembly for the TH900 much like the R10 but initially keeping the nice Urushi cups and only make a wooden front plate.

 

[up late]

the bass doesn't sound "incorrect" to me. and what is "correct bass" anyways when the presentation varies depending on which pair of cans, earphones and speakers you're listening to?

 

[zolkis]

Where did I say it was "incorrect"?
 
What I actually said, "more correct" (and let's not go Wittgenstein here) assumes that nothing is correct per se,  that the expression is subjective anyway, and its truth value is given by how many other people would perceive it the same way. When I said "more correct" I meant it relative to the Stax 007 Mk1 and the HD800 I compared it against, both of which have "more correct" bass and more open sound, although not necessarily and subjectively better for your taste and/or music. 
 
Nevertheless, let me express mea culpa for the blasphemous expression, and try to reformulate "more correct" with "less overhang" and "closer to instruments tonality" if you wish, or just simply say "I like it more that way", whatever it would mean. Yet there is a good chance that there are a lot of people out there who would consistently prefer it, too. That's all. If your TH900 does have "correct bass", whatever that may mean, then obviously I am not talking about that one .

 

[Justin_Time]

  Where did I say it was "incorrect"?
 
What I actually said, "more correct" (and let's not go Wittgenstein here) assumes that nothing is correct per se,  that the expression is subjective anyway, and its truth value is given by how many other people would perceive it the same way. When I said "more correct" I meant it relative to the Stax 007 Mk1 and the HD800 I compared it against, both of which have "more correct" bass and more open sound, although not necessarily and subjectively better for your taste and/or music. 
 
Nevertheless, let me express mea culpa for the blasphemous expression, and try to reformulate "more correct" with "less overhang" and "closer to instruments tonality" if you wish, or just simply say "I like it more that way", whatever it would mean. Yet there is a good chance that there are a lot of people out there who would consistently prefer it, too. That's all. If your TH900 does have "correct bass", whatever that may mean, then obviously I am not talking about that one .

I agree with you about the TH-900 bass. I own three pairs--I obviously like them--and the bass is basically the same on all of them.
 
With all its other virtues, the TH-900 has a slow decay (not as slow as the Grado's) and a little bloom in the bass that is not to everyone's taste.
 
And yes, changing the damping material inside the cup will among other things affect the bass.  I used the Lawton's kit--I have no idea what the material is--on one pair and it tightened the bass a bit without affecting its impact.  The full Lawton's modification,which I did to the other two pairs have essentially the same improvement on the bass.  It is slight but audible and quite beneficial.   

 

[Canadian411]

Interesting. The same is true about the TH900. Changing the foam ring damper changes the sound in similar ways. With wool felt dampers the TH900 does have a magical midrange, and more correct bass. I was thinking to make a fully wooden assembly for the TH900 much like the R10 but initially keeping the nice Urushi cups and only make a wooden front plate.

 


Interesting.. can you tell me where you get the wool dampening material ?

 

[up late]

Where did I say it was "incorrect"?

What I actually said, "more correct" (and let's not go Wittgenstein here) assumes that nothing is correct per se,  that the expression is subjective anyway, and its truth value is given by how many other people would perceive it the same way. When I said "more correct" I meant it relative to the Stax 007 Mk1 and the HD800 I compared it against, both of which have "more correct" bass and more open sound, although not necessarily and subjectively better for your taste and/or music. 

Nevertheless, let me express mea culpa for the blasphemous expression, and try to reformulate "more correct" with "less overhang" and "closer to instruments tonality" if you wish, or just simply say "I like it more that way", whatever it would mean. Yet there is a good chance that there are a lot of people out there who would consistently prefer it, too. That's all. If your TH900 does have "correct bass", whatever that may mean, then obviously I am not talking about that one .

you didn't - i did. just find the use of the word "correct" funny when we're describing subjective impressions tied up with personal preferences. "i like it more that way" is fine tho. at least you can say that with authority.

 

[zolkis]

 

Interesting. The same is true about the TH900. Changing the foam ring damper changes the sound in similar ways. With wool felt dampers the TH900 does have a magical midrange, and more correct bass. I was thinking to make a fully wooden assembly for the TH900 much like the R10 but initially keeping the nice Urushi cups and only make a wooden front plate.

 


Interesting.. can you tell me where you get the wool dampening material ?

 
The ones I use I got from a friend when I was experimenting with many types of wool felt. It was just enough for 2 pieces and the source is unknown. This sounds the way I described. I got a different type of wool felt from Playitloud and he got it from a Dutch company. It sound in between mine and the original foam damper. That benefits from the Lawton tune-up mod ($45 DIY). I also have the Lawton tune-up mod, but I ended up not using it (except for the stripes). The felt dampers also benefit from the ear pad mod (with active carbon foam) I described earlier in this forum. I can send you for free 2 pieces of ready cut wool felt dampers that I don't use any more. Contact me in PM. 
 
In general, it has to be 100% wool felt, not any synthetic material. Also, density and thickness is crucial, depending on thickness you can try 4-6 mm wool felt from local sources. I am pretty sure you can find wool felt locally. Good wool felt is soft and matte on the surface even if stiff in structure, i.e. it absorbs light efficiently. As opposed to most crap also sold as "wool felt", but not having any distantly reminiscent acoustic benefits of the "good" wool felt. The differences are staggering. The TH900 loading is a very short transmission line, in which damping is critical (I've spent some time tuning TL speakers and just applied some of the learning from there). That is why small changes there change the sound considerably. The stock TH900 has a very good balance, and the engineers knew exactly what they wanted. It suits well oriental/Japanese type of music and strikes a good balance for western taste, too. However, I wanted a bit more palpable midrange, that's whay started tampering with it. With my wool felt dampers, I use very slight wool blob filling in the cup, and the modded ear pads. The sound is more balanced, more open and more relaxed, with slightly more focused sound stage - also according to my friends. With the wool felt I started hearing instruments more clearly and even some that I didn't notice before, and in fact that was the main reason I stayed with it. The 007 goes one or two levels up in this, but with some genres my TH900 even beats the 007 in overall presentation and especially in visceral impact, except for the sound stage and resolution.

 

[bmichels]

If someone is interested, here is on Headphonics a complete review of the famous lawton mod for the th900.
 
.... if you dare
 
 

 

[zenpunk]

I still think it is really a shame to replace those magnificent red Japanese lacquer with plain wood.

 

[bmichels]

  I still think it is really a shame to replace those magnificent red Japanese lacquer with plain wood.

 
this is why I write " .... if you dare "

 

[Canadian411]

I am not really that crazy about the red urushi finish, in fact if I had a choice to get TH900 without the red cup cheaper I would have.
I prefer the natural wood look than the red gloss finish, but that's just me (Coming from someone loves doing woodworking).