[Cotnijoe]

Thanks for the inputs and advice everyone! Definitely put more thought into this and see if i can test anything first before buying! =)

 

[Lillee]

Quote:

Thanks for the inputs and advice everyone! Definitely put more thought into this and see if i can test anything first before buying! =)

 
Be warned, the last 2 people to try my HP-P1 caved in and bought one 

 

[dallan]

I tried Jude's at a meet recently before i bought mine and i ordered it that week.

 

[Lillee]

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I tried Jude's at a meet recently before i bought mine and i ordered it that week.

 
Haha it has that effect...

 

[gkanai]

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Be warned, the last 2 people to try my HP-P1 caved in and bought one 

 
Yep. That's me too. I tried one at the last Tokyo Headphone Festival. I also tried the CLAS and a few of the Go-DAP units and I liked the HP_P1's feature set the most. I'm assuming it will be forward-compatible with future iDevices (I live in Tokyo so getting my HP_P1's firmware updated should be fairly straightforward.)

 

[ExpatinJapan]

Liking mine very much - still waiting for that custom cable to arrive, hopefully tomorrow.

 

[Mkubota1]

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Hey everyone. I'm fairly new to the community especially when it comes to DACs. Would a better DAC still have significant improvements even if most of my files are 16/48? Most are ALAC or at least 320kbps.

 
I like the moderation and qualified answers so far.  

  My vote is: It's a subtle difference.  I probably wouldn't be able to identify the HP-P1 line out (bypassing the amp) and the iPod LOD if they weren't side by side.  That's not to say there isn't a difference- just trying to describe the magnitude to my ears.  I'm also all for trying to listen to one of these before buying.  Keep in mind that the (HP-P1's) amplifier does have an effect on the sound of certain IEMs/headphones.  So differences you hear might have more (or less) to do with the amplifier itself (as opposed to the DAC).

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

 
I like the moderation and qualified answers so far.  

  My vote is: It's a subtle difference.  I probably wouldn't be able to identify the HP-P1 line out (bypassing the amp) and the iPod LOD if they weren't side by side.  That's not to say there isn't a difference- just trying to describe the magnitude to my ears.  I'm also all for trying to listen to one of these before buying.  Keep in mind that the (HP-P1's) amplifier does have an effect on the sound of certain IEMs/headphones.  So differences you hear might have more (or less) to do with the amplifier itself (as opposed to the DAC).

My historic observation is that going up in quality may seem slight while listening to that quality a while and then going back down it seems to be a much larger step down that it was up.  I think we learn what quality is after a while and it changes how we think about what makes a large or small step.  Just thinking out loud...

 

[Mkubota1]

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My historic observation is that going up in quality may seem slight while listening to that quality a while and then going back down it seems to be a much larger step down that it was up.  I think we learn what quality is after a while and it changes how we think about what makes a large or small step.  Just thinking out loud...

 
That tends to hold true in a lot of things.  I was just trying to set the level of expectation.  On a somewhat related note which may or may not confirm that notion, things that stick out (beaming, ringing, peaks, etc.) tend to bother me more than things that are missing (frequency dips, lack of detail, etc.)  Also just thinking out loud… 

 

[Lillee]

I think many would agree that at the higher end of the DAC spectrum, the differences are very subtle if any at all. After all it is conversion of Digital to Analogue. If the error rate is so insignificantly small (many DACs at the high end particularly 32bit or better) then how can there be an audible difference? Unless of course the DAC is coloured or EQ'd which is unlikely in the higher end.
 
How this Analogue sound is then treated, amplified and presented I agree has many more variations than simply conversion of 1's and 0's to analogue signal?
 
Anyone care to enlighten me/us if I am wrong?

 

[Gilles De Rais]

Actually Lillee, your observation on Analogue is one of the more rational comments made on many a hi-fi fora. I tend to get a little annoyed that any discussion of a DAC tends to fixate on the Digital element rather than consider it as merely part of a chain where, ultimately, the Analogue output is how you should measure the success or otherwise of a device. When was the last time you saw someone discuss an analogue output filter or the I2V (current to voltage) stage of a DAC? Each has a significant impact on the sound and yet the fixation is on the Wolfson, Burr-Brown, AKM Dac chip....A couple of the more interesting papers on these things can be found on the Naim Audio website under the nDac and NDS product pages - look for white papers.
 
I do disagree that the difference in DACs at the high end is insignificant, I am willing to concede that it becomes more a matter of flavours or preferences than outright technical superiority. Like many things these differences are more manifest the higher up the chain your replay equipment is and the more experienced a listener you become, so a difference in DAC quality may not be apparent with mid-fi or to an relatively novice hearer (this is not a "golden ears" thing, this is a listening to high quality gear for more than 10 years thing).
 
Oh and yep the HP-P1 is fab, I assume you got yours from Steve at Wicked Digital?
 
regards, your fellow Sydneysider,
 
Giles

 

[ExpatinJapan]

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This my little beauty which is on the way as we speak, a low rider style piccolino usb lod for the Fostex, made by trusted head-fi cable maker - member Qusp.

Cable has arrived, pics and impressions soon.

 

[vigotone]

Cable has arrived, pics and impressions soon.

Yes please! I ordered the Twisted Pure silver with orange cover silver plated copper mini coax from Qusp. Not as fancy as the piccolino, but similar looking and 40% less money. Looking forward to getting it!

 

[Lillee]

I agree totally with what you are saying. Just to be clear I wasn't saying there is absolutely no difference whatsoever, I was merely pointing out that the HP-P1 Dac component and all Dacs hovering above $500 (Give or take?) will present very very little differences to the average mid range headfier with average midrange headphones/earphones. Also agree about different manufacturers running different algorithms, totally true and logical.
 

I at the higher end of the DAC spectrum, the differences are very subtle if any at all. 

 
What I meant by this is, the quality of whatever you are running in the >$500 category in DACs will be of high quality and have significantly high rate of diminishing returns, compared to similar amount spent on headphones or amps (eg. $500 headphone verses a $1000 headphone, $500 amp versus $1000 amp etc)? Don't you agree?
 
So morale of the story is, get a good DAC, and spend the money on something else! 

 
Yeah mine is from WickedDigital, whereabouts are you in Sydney?? we should organise a canjam!

 

[Gilles De Rais]

Hi Lillee,
 
After your clarification, I agree to an extent. I guess I was referring to say being able to pick the difference between a Rega Dac at AUD900 and a CA Dacmagic at AUD550 (Not to mention a Naim Dac at AUD3.5K...) Whilst I can pick the differences, they are not as great as you point out as with an amp or a headphone at those price points (though again I'd note that "flavours" can be equally distinctive at the same price point - Grado 325is vs Sennheiser 590s vs AT AD100 vs Shure 425 (comparative Australian prices)). I also agree with the get a good dac, I tend to be a "source-first" guy, flat-earther if you will...Hence the getting a Hp-P1, best signal out first, then deal with the amplification and the transducer.
 
I'm in the city and the inner-west.
 
regards,
 
Giles