Fostex FS-3DA DAC/amp Help + alternatives under $200?

[Jisatsubeats]

Hello, first post so sorry if there are formatting errors and such.

I'm looking to upgrade from my FX Audio DAC-X6 to something better. I'll be trying to power a pair of AD-900X's, Fostex T-X0's (Massdrop T50RP MK2), and a pair of Final E2000 IEMs (16ohm impedance 102dB sensitivity). The option that I have come across that has intrigued me the most is the Fostex FS-3DA.

Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019MPBOI0/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=
Fostex Japan link: http://www.fostex.jp/products/fs-3da/

The THD says 0.01%, which seems higher than other DAC/amps I've seen but the difference between 0.01 and per-say 0.003 will probably be negligible. (I may be wrong) It has line-ins if I wanted to hook up a separate DAC to the amp, and pre-outs for speakers. (I know it says line out but I'll get to that later) For only 155-ish bucks, this seems pretty good, except I'm just hung up on the fact that this DAC-amp is meant to be paired with the FS-4AS active speakers, and that the headphone out is likely secondary to the pre-outs in terms of quality (unless both use the same circuitry and there's a resistor on the headphone out IDK) I mentioned earlier that I believe the rear RCA outs are pre-outs, since they hook up to speakers, (makes the most sense to me) but as I was finding the links to include in this post, I discovered that there are volume control knobs on the speaker units themselves, so the volume knob on the DAC-amp might not actually adjust the volume on the rear RCA outs. I will include links to both the product pages (translated via google translate) and the manuals (Japanese only PDFs) below in case you guys spot something I miss.

FS-3DA product page translated: https://translate.google.com/transl...://www.fostex.jp/products/fs-3da/&prev=search

FS-3DA manual: http://www.fostex.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/FS-3DA.pdf

FS-4AS product page translated: https://translate.google.com/transl...://www.fostex.jp/products/fs-4as/&prev=search

FS-4AS manual: http://www.fostex.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/FS-4AS.pdf

I will be only using the Headphone out and I included details about the speakers so that I can figure out if the outs on the back are simple line outs so that I can hook up another AMP to the DAC in the 3DA if I wanted to in the future. I asked about this unit over on r/headphones and a user expressed concern over the noise floor if I used the E2000 IEMs with this. Why would the issue of noise floor only present itself with the IEMs instead of the AD-900X or the T50RP's? Other suggestions for other units are highly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Music Alchemist]

I like your avatar! Looks like the anime chick is holding a recording device for making sound samples, if I'm not mistaken.

The volume knobs on powered speakers are not meant to be used as a volume control per se; more like setting the maximum, then you use a preamp to control the volume.

If there are RCA outputs and it has a volume knob, this almost always means you can use it as a preamp for speakers. Much of the time, it will use the same circuitry as the headphone amp, but this isn't a good thing in my book, because that can color the sound compared to using a DAC/amp that supports DAC only mode, enabling you to utilize the lack of electronics in a passive preamp. This isn't an issue for you, though, since you only plan on using headphones.

And yes, those are basic RCA inputs and outputs, so you can use another amp. (Take a look at this photo of the back.)

If I had to guess, I'd say that it can function as both a line out and preamp, so if you connect another amp, you'd just increase the DAC/amp's volume to maximum.

IEMs usually have low impedance. (Yours are 16 ohms.) If the amp's output impedance is high, it can cause damping factor problems. I don't see that spec listed, though.

I tend to favor dedicated DACs and amps over DAC/amp units, as it gives you more flexibility. You mentioned that you may want to use another amp anyway, in which case you may be better off going for a different DAC.

A popular combo at your price range is the Schiit Magni 2 amp & Modi 2 DAC. The amp has good specs and enough power to drive most headphones.

If it were me, though, I'd just stick with my $30 Behringer UCA202 audio interface as my DAC instead of getting the Modi 2, because in the past, I compared the Modi 2 to my laptop's onboard DAC and did not hear a difference. In my experience, DACs over $200 yield more noticeable improvements. I downgraded from a four figure DAC to this really basic one earlier this year, then upgraded my speakers and got far better sound than the cheaper speakers with the more expensive DAC. High-end DACs do sound better to me, but most of the sound comes from the transducers (headphones/speakers).

 

[Jisatsubeats]

I like your avatar! Looks like the anime chick is holding a recording device for making sound samples, if I'm not mistaken.

The volume knobs on powered speakers are not meant to be used as a volume control per se; more like setting the maximum, then you use a preamp to control the volume.

If there are RCA outputs and it has a volume knob, this almost always means you can use it as a preamp for speakers. Much of the time, it will use the same circuitry as the headphone amp, but this isn't a good thing in my book, because that can color the sound compared to using a DAC/amp that supports DAC only mode, enabling you to utilize the lack of electronics in a passive preamp. This isn't an issue for you, though, since you only plan on using headphones.

And yes, those are basic RCA inputs and outputs, so you can use another amp. (Take a look at this photo of the back.)

If I had to guess, I'd say that it can function as both a line out and preamp, so if you connect another amp, you'd just increase the DAC/amp's volume to maximum.

IEMs usually have low impedance. (Yours are 16 ohms.) If the amp's output impedance is high, it can cause damping factor problems. I don't see that spec listed, though.

I tend to favor dedicated DACs and amps over DAC/amp units, as it gives you more flexibility. You mentioned that you may want to use another amp anyway, in which case you may be better off going for a different DAC.

A popular combo at your price range is the Schiit Magni 2 amp & Modi 2 DAC. The amp has good specs and enough power to drive most headphones.

If it were me, though, I'd just stick with my $30 Behringer UCA202 audio interface as my DAC instead of getting the Modi 2, because in the past, I compared the Modi 2 to my laptop's onboard DAC and did not hear a difference. In my experience, DACs over $200 yield more noticeable improvements. I downgraded from a four figure DAC to this really basic one earlier this year, then upgraded my speakers and got far better sound than the cheaper speakers with the more expensive DAC. High-end DACs do sound better to me, but most of the sound comes from the transducers (headphones/speakers).

Thanks! The sampler is a Roland SP-404, I'm a music producer (hobby) and a bit of a weeb so it fit perfectly.

What do you mean by damping factor when you mentioned the output impedance of the amp? Also, I've looked at the Schiit-stack and it seems great, except the added RCAs of reasonable length and shipping make them $250 total, even on Amazon. I'm just more concerned if this is a reasonable upgrade from a basic bottom of the barrel DAC-X6, for the foreseeable future in terms of needs based on my headphones. (I probably won't buy another pair for at least a year unless Massdrop drops something crazy) I considered units like the SMSL M6 although I'm iffy about the digital volume control and the build quality since my DAC-X6 is barely passable and both companies are owned by Shenzhen Audio. I mainly bought the X6 for more convenient volume control (laptop requires two buttons on opposite ends of the keyboard to change volume) and to bypass the audio "enhancers " software built in to my laptop. (MSi). Even if the X6 says it's capable of 24bit/192k audio, and the 3DA is "only" 24bit/96k, is this difference in sample rates audible? (I mean the ODAC is 24bit/96k it some people seem to hold it as the ultimate DAC) And if I have RCA ins, this means I can connect it to a separate DAC later on and utilize just the amp section of the 3DA, correct? Most of my music consumption is obscure bandcamp artists and standard Spotify streaming, and I can export files from my music production software in just about every audio file type there is. I also looked at the Micca Origen+, but the form factor just seems odd and the top volume knob seems weird ergonomically. (Also the wood panels on the 3DA look really nice). All the DAC/amps that I see on amazon and reccomendation lists are Chi-Fi and that's what I'm trying to get away from but it seems anything else is super expensive, and I don't think $400 DAC/amp powering $100 headphones really makes any sense. The only thing else I've considered is the ifi iDSD LE, and although the DAC looks amazing the 3.5mm jack is one of my deal breakers, after using a 1/4 inch plug for 6 months, 3.5mm just feels small, and flimsy. Not to mention a lot of ifi products look like snake oil. If you have any other suggestions they would be highly appreciated.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Thanks! The sampler is a Roland SP-404, I'm a music producer (hobby) and a bit of a weeb so it fit perfectly.

This girl I know named Cybo (who makes amazing electronic music) uses similar gear.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/709892-Cybo

What do you mean by damping factor when you mentioned the output impedance of the amp?

Without going into detail, just try to avoid amps with high output impedance. You can look into the technical stuff via this search link.

Also, I've looked at the Schiit-stack and it seems great, except the added RCAs of reasonable length and shipping make them $250 total, even on Amazon.

I use these RCA cables that are just a few dollars: https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=2869

Like I mentioned, you could get the amp along with a more affordable DAC. Also, it's cheaper to buy Schiit Audio's products directly from their site.

Even if the X6 says it's capable of 24bit/192k audio, and the 3DA is "only" 24bit/96k, is this difference in sample rates audible?

This only refers to file resolutions they support. Any sonic differences between DACs have nothing to do with that spec. If your files are the Red Book (16-bit / 44.1 kHz) standard that CDs use, they will be played back no higher than that resolution as long as you are using a bit-perfect output mode (such as ASIO, WASAPI, or KS) in your music player. (I use foobar2000 most of the time.)

As for hi-res files themselves...check out this article.

(I mean the ODAC is 24bit/96k it some people seem to hold it as the ultimate DAC)

The ODAC is entry-level. High-end DACs (which can cost up to six figures) measure (and sound) better.

And if I have RCA ins, this means I can connect it to a separate DAC later on and utilize just the amp section of the 3DA, correct?

Correct. However, I would not recommend bothering with it, as it only outputs 100 mW at 32 ohms. In contrast, the Magni 2 can output up to 1,200 mW at 32 ohms and is cheaper.

Most of my music consumption is obscure bandcamp artists and standard Spotify streaming, and I can export files from my music production software in just about every audio file type there is.

My music collection is so large that I haven't even listened to it all yet. lol...

Although I've been a musician since the early '90s, I never got around to properly recording my compositions. Feel free to PM me with links to your music!

I'm just more concerned if this is a reasonable upgrade from a basic bottom of the barrel DAC-X6, for the foreseeable future in terms of needs based on my headphones. (I probably won't buy another pair for at least a year unless Massdrop drops something crazy) I considered units like the SMSL M6 although I'm iffy about the digital volume control and the build quality since my DAC-X6 is barely passable and both companies are owned by Shenzhen Audio. I mainly bought the X6 for more convenient volume control (laptop requires two buttons on opposite ends of the keyboard to change volume) and to bypass the audio "enhancers " software built in to my laptop. (MSi).

I also looked at the Micca Origen+, but the form factor just seems odd and the top volume knob seems weird ergonomically. (Also the wood panels on the 3DA look really nice). All the DAC/amps that I see on amazon and reccomendation lists are Chi-Fi and that's what I'm trying to get away from but it seems anything else is super expensive, and I don't think $400 DAC/amp powering $100 headphones really makes any sense. The only thing else I've considered is the ifi iDSD LE, and although the DAC looks amazing the 3.5mm jack is one of my deal breakers, after using a 1/4 inch plug for 6 months, 3.5mm just feels small, and flimsy. Not to mention a lot of ifi products look like snake oil. If you have any other suggestions they would be highly appreciated.

Many have found that certain electronics they "upgraded" to didn't sound any better. It's something to keep in mind. You'll have to compare each one (ideally directly) to see how much of a difference it makes. If you do such comparisons in the future, don't forget to volume-match. Switching rapidly is also beneficial. This can be done more easily with the Schiit SYS.

I haven't used the iFi nano iDSD LE. It looks like a good value. I owned the iFi micro iDSD (which was originally $500) and thought its DAC was hardly better than the one in the $99 Schiit Fulla 2. (And way worse than the $249 Schiit Modi Multibit.) I think its worth lies in its powerful amp, which can be useful for harder to drive headphones.

I'm mentioning all this because it's entirely possible that you could spend hundreds of dollars and not get a significant improvement in sound, depending on which components you choose. The Magni 2 is a good choice as an amp that can be used with most headphones and paired with any DAC. It's usually wiser to keep the DAC and amp separate so you're not stuck spending money on something you aren't using anymore, like when you buy a DAC/amp, then only use it as a DAC or amp later. If you're going to upgrade your DAC again anyway, you might as well use a cheaper DAC and save up for something a bit higher-end, such as the Modi Multibit. (It's just that DACs under $200 don't differ nearly as much as pricier ones do.)

But first and foremost, get better headphones for better sound. The most important thing is the headphones you use, and that's what you should focus most of your budget on, generally speaking.