[comabereni]

I'm mostly posting this for anyone sitting on the fence trying to decide what player to use. Foobar is, as my teenage sons say, the bomb. Download it and spend a night/day setting it up--it's worth it.

It wasn't exactly a piece of cake, but music files with Foobar sound vastly superior to Windows Media Player 9 and 10 and, in my opinion, WinAmp. By comparison, WMP sounds noticeably "muddy" and sloppy. I confess I never got the ASIO plugin working in WinAmp--maybe it would sound just as good.

FB sounded about the same configured for Kernel Streaming and ASIO, but I can't get it to play in KS mode since DL'ing and installing ASIO4ALL (which was necessary to get FB with ASIO to find my Chaintech AV710, i.e. the "ENVY24" device wasn't showing up in the list of devices prior to ASIO4ALL). Perhaps a reinstall of FB and, potentially, my Chaintech AV710 drivers?

Regarding music file formats: about 18 months ago I ripped my collection of CDs to 192K WMA files, long before I was aware of FLAC, APE, etc. I'm not about to put myself through that abuse again anytime soon--it took me something like 60 or 80 hours (I get the impression it would take a lot longer using EAC). I do remember I didn't get much sleep that week

. As I've gone deeper into this headphone passion/sickness, I was concerned I might be disappointed by WMA format, but I've found that 192k WMA sounds *really* nice. If you are coming over from WMP "automaton mode"--I think you really don't need to hurry up and re-rip your collection (at least if you ripped them at 192K--I don't like the way 128K files sound in comparison). I'll eventually try a few tracks in other formats, but, again, 192K WMA sounds nice, not "metallic", "lossy", or "noisy" as I was lead to believe it might. Perhaps having a decent amp with tubes smooths the sound out a bit, taking off what might otherwise be some WMA "edginess" (who knows??).

Before I forget, I was having trouble with other applications/windows which have associated system sounds taking focus from Foobar with the result that FB playback was muted and the FB window had to be manually selected before playback became audible again. My solution was to deactivate system sounds in the Control Panel and set FB to be "Always On Top" (don't know if the latter is necessary).

Having said all this, becoming familiar with Foobar so you can set it up properly and optimize it for best performance/personal taste isn't something you do in an hour or two. However, once you get the basics down, it is quite do-able. Installing and trying the various plugins is a lot of fun. And if you hate text and keyboard driven interfaces, there are some really neat GUI's available--I really like "Mithril".

Just thought I'd share some holiday weekend ramblings/impressions. I can't think of a piece of public domain software in recent times that performs as well as Foobar and associated plugins. Absolutely superior to WMP (sound quality), even though it isn't the Swiss Army knife of media players WMP is. Maybe that's why it's so good. It makes you wonder how long until, or if, MS will ever catch up or adopt the same technology.

--coma

 

[petery83]

While I couldn't tell a difference in sound quality at first (when I started using foobar I didn't use ASIO), I learned to like it a lot more (due to its flexability) than what I was originally using...Musicmatch Jukebox

and Winamp. And to think I once considered paying $30(?) to upgrade to MMJB Plus

 

[ahmose]

Couldn't agree more. Since trying FB2K many months ago, there was no turning back.
I like the columns UI look, it looks much better than the default look IMHO.

 

[azt33]

Maybe a stupid question, but is Foobar available for Mac OSX? Or does anyone know how it stacks up against iTunes?

Thanks.

 

[comabereni]

After an evening of tests on my system (2.7Ghz Celeron, 768MB RAM, Chaintech AV710 source, Pete Millett hybrid amp and the Alessandro MS1's), I have decided that while sonically similar, kernel streaming is noticeably superior for a few reasons, even if minute. The foremost reason is the fact KS is not sensitive to buffer settings, i.e. no clicks or pops. Instead, KS comes across as smoother, more stable and without annoying artifacts inserting themselves into the playback stream on random occasions. On the flip-side, ASIO (using ASIO4ALL) is far more challenging to find proper buffer settings to minimize clicking/skipping (buffer too small) and, on the other end, accidentally catching the end of the previous song in the buffer. On my system I found the buffer "window" for ASIO4All as pretty small before problems occured on either side--1248 max before it would pick up the last few milliseconds of the previous song when changing tracks. Below that, clicking/crackles set in at around 1150 or so. Never could eliminate them 100%, but it was at least acceptable within that range.

To run my listening tests, I first had to figure out how to restore Kernel Streaming output mode. Resampling was set to 96k Hz--and it won't work above 48k Hz. It seems it might not work if you have ASIO in your configuration--need to check that again.

Let me add my impression that with kernel streaming, music seems more detailed and maybe even a bit brighter--perhaps even a bit grainy, but not objectionably so (to me). Gain also seems higher overall--perhaps this means more headroom to drive less efficient cans (though I'm not sure where/what clipping problems might occur). Overall I like these settings a lot since I really don't like holding my breath waiting for the next tiny crackle or pop using ASIO.

____________________________

I've read elsewhere about cracks and pops using ASIO that couldn't be eliminated, even if very, very minor--I wonder if anyone is able to run it without these issues?

____________________________

P.S. [EDIT]:

With Foobar now optimized and before declaring my current setup finished, I was concerned that my WMA files might be a weak link in the chain. I decided to do a double-blind listening test comparing a 192kbps WMA file (3.58MB) ripped with WMP9 to an uncompressed lossless 1,411kbps WAV file (26.0MB) ripped with EAC. Easy, right?

The test piece was a nicely recorded recent acoustic choral selection that included men's and women's voices made in a large hall as well as accompanying bells struck forcefully followed by long decays into silence.

After about 1/2-hour of careful A vs. B comparing the two files (and without being permitted to know which file was which throughout the test), I made my decision... and guessed wrong. The verdict: I won't be re-ripping my CD collection into lossless anytime soon--thank goodness. I suppose I would reconsider if I upgraded my entire chain of components, but as is, everything seems well-matched and sounds just great.

...end of test and configure mode--> begin listen and enjoy mode...

 

[Solude]

Glad you enjoyed your Foobar experience. I still use WMP exclusively even after a week long showdown against Foobar though. WMP sounds as good as Foobar without the errors Foobar occasionally throws into the mix. WMP obviously is the easier program to use for playback and recording. I love WMP management tools too. WMP mixes better with the WAVE channel, so I can play games using my own tunes more easily. Lastly and this one is a biggy for me, its fully compatible with my media keyboard commands. Being able to mute, pause, switch songs, adjust volume... from within another program without tabbing out is very convienent. Foobar is still nice if you want a dedicated PC music server or want to play with different DSPs and output streams but I found it caused a lot of problems or limitations while used in concert with the rest of your PC needs.

Can't stress how much the in game commands improve wife faction

 

[scottder]

Solude,

You can run foobar into the mixed and also you can use the multimedia keyboard. Just go into the Keyboard Shortcuts section and assign the functions to the keys you want.

Scott

 

[Solude]

Thats only half true Scottder. The keys work, while Foobar is the primary window, pretty worthless at that point since its main attraction is making changes without going to the media window. And yes you can use Foobar with WAVE output but then it has no advantage over WMP other than giving you the warm fuzzy feeling of not using MS apps

The beauty of Foobar is resampling and KS or ASIO output. If you're not using those then why wouldn't you use WMP better management and easier setup, i.e none.

 

[scottder]

Funny I use my global hotkeys all the time without switching to foobar. Just have to make sure the global hotkey is selected.

Plus last I checked foobar wasn't sending info back to the foobar developers telling them what I am listening to. Unlike WMP

I for one also find the WMP interface too klunky to use anyway, foobar is lighter, and yes I use ASIO, though not for any sound improvement, just for volume control within foobar itself.

We all have different needs and wants, I merely wanted to point out that foobar did indeed have the ability to use multimedia keys.

Scott

 

[Solude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottder Funny I use my global hotkeys all the time without switching to foobar. Just have to make sure the global hotkey is selected. Scott

What keyboard are you using? Foobar doesn't respond to commands from mine unless I'm running something in a window. If I go fullscreen commands are ignored.

 

[scottder]

I'm not sure what you mean by "running something in a window" make sure you have global setting checked with each command (it's a seperate for EACH command). Otherwise foobar won't take the commands outside of foobar (like when you have your browser focused).

Scott

 

[Solude]

So I have to modify Foobar's default config and my keyboard to get it to work properly? I love the MS privacy thing some people love to hate. I could care less who knows what I'm up to on my PC. If you have to hide it, don't do it. But anyway I gave Foobar a chance and WMP beat it for my application. Being a minimalist really didn't help Foobar's chances.

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude So I have to modify Foobar's default config and my keyboard to get it to work properly? I love the MS privacy thing some people love to hate. I could care less who knows what I'm up to on my PC. If you have to hide it, don't do it. But anyway I gave Foobar a chance and WMP beat it for my application. Being a minimalist really didn't help Foobar's chances.

Most keyboards don't have the multimedia keys (like mine) so no they are not default in foobar. Hey as long as you are happy, I simply wanted to be clear about what foobar can and can't do....it CAN do this

For me minimalist is what I like....I just want it to play my music, I don't need "skins" or pretty pictures....

 

[sygyzy]

Foobar would be my player of choice if I could only figure it out. I know the designers made it purposely non-intuitive but that's a great way to limit adoption (linux vs windows anyone?)

Does anyone know where I can find a good Column's UI tutorial or configuration sets?

 

[scottder]

Here is THE palce for info on the columns_ui including downloadable 'themes' for it.

http://foobar.nub4life.net/columns/