[bmichels]

   
Thank you for clearing this up, Currawong. Much appreciated!
 
Now, there's this rule about double (triple, quadruple, quintuple) posting ... 

 

 

 

[Jazzkammer]

  why can't you just go on your site and purchase the headphone? Do you have to call or something? Just curious
 
Also if ordered when will they ship?

 
How can we expect audiophile stores to do an e-commerce site when less than half the brands they are dealers for even allow them to sell online?   The Source may be working on one (good for them), but The Source is not a headphone shop; they are a high end stereo store, and most high end brands prohibit online sales.   This is why most audiophile stores do not have an e-commerce site.  Only in headphone-land are we lucky to be able to buy everything we like online.  

 

[Dillan]

The guy playing his music so loud everyone turns around and looks is cracking me up. At least the Utopia can take some punishment!

 

[fjrabon]

  The guy playing his music so loud everyone turns around and looks is cracking me up. At least the Utopia can take some punishment!

I remember being at CanLanta a few weeks ago and hearing somebody playing their headphones from 30 feet away over the noise of a show.  Like he had to be listening at 120dB at least.

 

[mtoc]

still waiting for tyll's measurements of this, come on, tyll

 

[mikoss]

...
They are really different. The 650 is U curve can. The Elear is not. IMO the Elear is significantly more in the mids and again tighter in bass/mid bass frequencies. The 650 to me is more forward in the upper highs and I find IMO them fatiguing. Take my feelings out the Elear is more Audio-enthusiast type or more musical. As always I suggest you audition both but if not use the non-antagonistic posts here and you'll eventually lock into a few opinions that help you. Your take away should be that I like most Sennheisers and I like the Focals. I'm a more exacting listener than some but I tend to go for speakers and cans that draw me in. For me, that's not the 650. In the 650 price range, its a good can and in the Elear price range it's a great can. Sorry, I'm sure I haven't given you enough but I'll try to refresh my memory of the 650s to see if I need to correct or can give you more opinion. In the meantime, enjoy the music! Jason - The Source AV Design Group

Huh? The HD-650's u curved and fatiguing? 

 More like slight mid-range hump leading to their warm signature, with a slight lack of sub-bass, and notable slightly rolled treble. I think the 650's are probably one of the least fatiguing headphones out there. They also have some of the richest sounding mids in comparison to other cans... maybe not the overall warmth of the LCD-3's, but definitely a different resolution than the LCDs.
 
I suspect the Elear might have tighter distortion specs for the bass, which would lend to the tighter sound...

 

[Sophonax]

  Huh? The HD-650's u curved and fatiguing? 

 More like slight mid-range hump leading to their warm signature, with a slight lack of sub-bass, and notable slightly rolled treble. I think the 650's are probably one of the least fatiguing headphones out there. They also have some of the richest sounding mids in comparison to other cans... maybe not the overall warmth of the LCD-3's, but definitely a different resolution than the LCDs.
 
I suspect the Elear might have tighter distortion specs for the bass, which would lend to the tighter sound...

 
Agreed on the HD650 not having a u-shaped sound -- but I will add that I think the newer HD650s sound much different than the older ones (and I'm not sure if this is due entirely to the black vs. silver screen drivers). The older ones were very warm with thick, rich mids and a subdued treble (that infamous "Sennheiser veil"). The newer ones sound much more neutral to me, losing a bit of the warmth for increased clarity and treble energy and extension. It makes the HD650 a bit of a challenging headphone to benchmark against -- especially when some people who talk about the HD650 may not have heard it for a few years and may be describing what they remember about an older version.

 

[TSAVJason]

Agreed on the HD650 not having a u-shaped sound -- but I will add that I think the newer HD650s sound much different than the older ones (and I'm not sure if this is due entirely to the black vs. silver screen drivers). The older ones were very warm with thick, rich mids and a subdued treble (that infamous "Sennheiser veil"). The newer ones sound much more neutral to me, losing a bit of the warmth for increased clarity and treble energy and extension. It makes the HD650 a bit of a challenging headphone to benchmark against -- especially when some people who talk about the HD650 may not have heard it for a few years and may be describing what they remember about an older version.

Huh? The HD-650's u curved and fatiguing?   More like slight mid-range hump leading to their warm signature, with a slight lack of sub-bass, and notable slightly rolled treble. I think the 650's are probably one of the least fatiguing headphones out there. They also have some of the richest sounding mids in comparison to other cans... maybe not the overall warmth of the LCD-3's, but definitely a different resolution than the LCDs.

I suspect the Elear might have tighter distortion specs for the bass, which would lend to the tighter sound...

If you can read this without feeling some conspiracy or bias I'll see if I can answers since we have both very close to each other in our headgear bar. But since I'm told on some mobile devices that I'm not badged as a member of the trade/sponsor let it be known I am Jason - The Source AV Design Group. I represent both brands in your curiosity for comparison.

As I've eluded to in other posts, these can be difficult opinions to write because our reference points are different.

They are really different. The 650 is U curve can. The Elear is not. IMO the Elear is significantly more in the mids and again tighter in bass/mid bass frequencies. The 650 to me is more forward in the upper highs and I find IMO them fatiguing. Take my feelings out the Elear is more Audio-enthusiast type or more musical. As always I suggest you audition both but if not use the non-antagonistic posts here and you'll eventually lock into a few opinions that help you. Your take away should be that I like most Sennheisers and I like the Focals. I'm a more exacting listener than some but I tend to go for speakers and cans that draw me in. For me, that's not the 650. In the 650 price range, its a good can and in the Elear price range it's a great can. Sorry, I'm sure I haven't given you enough but I'll try to refresh my memory of the 650s to see if I need to correct or can give you more opinion. In the meantime, enjoy the music! Jason - The Source AV Design Group

. So it's been a while since I listened to the 650 and honestly thought I remembered them pretty well but I'm listening to them right now and it's not what my memory was telling me last night. So here are a couple differences.

1) the 650 is less efficient and requires more to drive it
2) the 650 doesn't have the bass extension
3) the highs on the 650 are more pronounced and obvious "pushed"
4) the mids are slightly back but more forward than a lot of cans in this price range.
5) while the 650 is more pronounced in the high frequencies the Elear is not obvious at all but the highs are all there.
6) the mids on the Elear are placed as I said exactly where they belong and that is IMO a nicer presentation.
7) mid-bass is more pronounced on the 650 to a point it seems it's trying compensate for the lack of bass extension.

So I apologize for the misinformation last night but I knew I was tired and I knew I'd listen to them again this morning to be sure I was giving you good information. Obviously my answer was way wrong. I'll be sure to review the cans here in my showroom before I answer next time of I'm not 100% sure so I don't give you wrong information again. In this case I wasn't certain I had the right cans in mind and shouldn't have responded. Again my apologies ..enjoy the music!

Thx for making me be sure I listen to each can more often. We have so many I get stuck on the most popular like the 800/800S, Ether, EtherC, LCD2, 3&X and now the Focals. The take away IMO is the 650 needs power but is a good set of cans for the money. I'm not personally fond of the high frequency in the 650 but it isn't terrible at all. Maybe if say the Elear has better extension in both highs and lows and is a punchier set of cans with much less effort than the 650. The 650 does present a lower bass level overall but still pleasant. Tonally they both perform well while the Elear IMO gives me a more musical experience. Really they are only slightly different but for me, different in ways that count for a good musical experience. That said, keep in mind, my music preference is Jazz. So I prefer a non-congested sound stage and a good placement in the mix representation of instrumentation. We all have different styles of listening, music and hear differently as well.

 

[Yugo]

Wow, even "more lively and tonally-rich in the midrange" than the LCD-4! That's extremely high praise for the Utopia. As to me the LCD4's midrange is one of the most tonally-rich midrange I have ever heard. I cannot wait to hear this headphone now.

 

[Sophonax]

. So it's been a while since I listened to the 650 and honestly thought I remembered them pretty well but I'm listening to them right now and it's not what my memory was telling me last night. So here are a couple differences.

1) the 650 is less efficient and requires more to drive it
2) the 650 doesn't have the bass extension
3) the highs on the 650 are more pronounced and obvious "pushed"
4) the mids are slightly back but more forward than a lot of cans in this price range.
5) while the 650 is more pronounced in the high frequencies the Elear is not obvious at all but the highs are all there.
6) the mids on the Elear are placed as I said exactly where they belong and that is IMO a nicer presentation.
7) mid-bass is more pronounced on the 650 to a point it seems it's trying compensate for the lack of bass extension.

So I apologize for the misinformation last night but I knew I was tired and I knew I'd listen to them again this morning to be sure I was giving you good information. Obviously my answer was way wrong. I'll be sure to review the cans here in my showroom before I answer next time of I'm not 100% sure so I don't give you wrong information again. In this case I wasn't certain I had the right cans in mind and shouldn't have responded. Again my apologies ..enjoy the music!

Thx for making me be sure I listen to each can more often. We have so many I get stuck on the most popular like the 800/800S, Ether, EtherC, LCD2, 3&X.

 
No problem, thanks for taking another listen! I just wanted to point out that the HD650 has definitely changed over the years. I haven't heard the Elear, but what you describe here fits with my take on the newer HD650's sound, allowing for differences in listening preferences.
 
Also out of curiosity, when you describe the Elear and HD650 mids in terms of "forwardness," are you speaking spatially (i.e. do they sound close or far away) or tonally (i.e. are they more or less prominent when compared to bass / treble)?

 

[TSAVJason]

No problem, thanks for taking another listen! I just wanted to point out that the HD650 has definitely changed over the years. I haven't heard the Elear, but what you describe here fits with my take on the newer HD650's sound, allowing for differences in listening preferences.

Also out of curiosity, when you describe the Elear and HD650 mids in terms of "forwardness," are you speaking spatially (i.e. do they sound close or far away) or tonally (i.e. are they more or less prominent when compared to bass / treble)?

Good questions sorry I didn't address them in my response. So one thing I really like about the Elear is its speaker like presentation. I say this because in translation that means it sounds closer in and yet open enough to not sound like its in your head. The 650 to me sounds more distant but I think that I think is because it requires so much more horsepower to drive it. In the bass the Elear is champion and if you like a lot of highs with less bass and certainly less low bass the 650 is a good player in headphones. Ok so I missed another thing, I mean both in space and In tone the Elear is more forward but keep in mind that the high frequency on the Elear the highs initially seem back until you get accustom to its silky presentation of high frequencies. It's a very busy day here today so I hope I wasn't too short in my understanding of your questions.

 

[Dillan]

I'm so interested in Elear... Decisions decisions. Wish brick and mortar headphone shops were more popular.

 

[Audio Addict]

I'm so interested in Elear... Decisions decisions. Wish brick and mortar headphone shops were more popular.

 
I have contemplated opening one near the college here where I live as a retirement project but once I figured in all the overhead and the fact that a lot of people would still use it to audition and buy elsewhere, I figured at best I would make minimum wage with a lot of risk so I have not pursued it.  I give those that have 5 stars.

 

[fjrabon]

   
I have contemplated opening one near the college here where I live as a retirement project but once I figured in all the overhead and the fact that a lot of people would still use it to audition and buy elsewhere, I figured at best I would make minimum wage with a lot of risk so I have not pursued it.  I give those that have 5 stars.

yeah, it sort of works for speakers because shipping is prhibitively expensive on those a lot of times (the flipside being that they're super expensive to hold in inventory).  But yeah, headphones can almost always be shipped for free with no tax and lower margins.  Basically impossible for brick and mortars to work in the modern headphone environment.  

 

[TSAVJason]

yeah, it sort of works for speakers because shipping is prhibitively expensive on those a lot of times (the flipside being that they're super expensive to hold in inventory).  But yeah, headphones can almost always be shipped for free with no tax and lower margins.  Basically impossible for brick and mortars to work in the modern headphone environment.  

I find this topic interesting that you acknowledge the difference in overhead. There are brands that just have insufficient profitability to sell in brick&mortar. However you'll find that is changing more often now. I find manufacturers are reaching out offering more to B&M dealers these days because they would prefer a more close relationship with the client and B&M dealers support the sale where online blows you off and directs you to the manufacturer for support. Manufactures are losing money by supporting sales the online guys don't support. This is rapidly becoming a problem for manufacturers as they calculate their costs. I get manufacturers calling and coming in to us constantly to get out of the losses they are taking with online dealers. I think you'll see online being less competitive and manufacturers pushing for an in-store audition so the consumers have more dealer support and a better understanding of what they are trying to purchase. I think our business model has caused an awakening in this genre of products and that blind buying is going to become less an option over time.