[Duke40]

32 ohm. Or. 80 ohm. ... I wonder which is the correct value ?

Focal website has the specifications at 80 ohm , this thread (and other websites have the value as 32 ohm).

 

[Allanmarcus]

I think people are looking for justification of the 4K price. Great SQ can be had for significantly less than 4K. Sure, there's the law of diminishing returns, but for 4K one would expect some tangible, objective benefits. I'm not saying there aren't any for the utopia, I haven't heard, seen it, or touched it. I'm just saying it's reasonable to ask "why is it worth $4k?" I suppose factors like SQ, build, style, reputation, warranty, status, expected longevity, resale value all have to be taken into account, and are valid areas for discussion.


I was aghast when McIntosh released their $2k headphones. My assumption was they were $1k headphones with a $1k logo. I've heard them and I think they are good, but not worth 2000 to me. The LCD-4 are also not worth 4K to me. May many other things are not worth the asking price to me. I too will probably "settle" for a model 3, even thought I can afford an S.


All I'm saying is that a headphone this expensive is bound to bring up the question "why". The same thing happens when discussing Focals $100k speakers.

Well the two biggest factors are going to be SQ and build quality (BQ?).  I think those two speak for themselves, as should become apparent once more people get hands and ears on them.  If your SQ and BQ beats out everything in the price range or cheaper, it's a strong argument for the price, IMHO.  

At the end of the day, though, some people will never find a single headphone worth spending $4k on, or a single car worth spending $100k on, etc.  In that case, no amount of discussion will go anywhere.  

This two may be most important to you, but to me. SQ, comfort, the BQ, then the others (oh, and price . Heck, company rep also comes into play too. Each person sets his own weighting for these factors. I imagine these can will add up well.

 

[Allanmarcus]

Well... what is the the Bill Of Materials cost vs Retail Price? for average headphones? higher tier headphones? flagship headphones? I know for stuff like laptops there's people capable of tear downs and estimating costs. Is anyone out there venturing guesses in headphone electronics?

If we discover there's some terrible markup vs the component cost (and I know the vendors probably won't state figures publicly so it's always going to be a guessing game), having some data would really help try to estimate value in an objective sense to juxtapose against the subjective listening experience.

You are forgetting about labor and distribution. Sennheiser and beyerdynamic probably have much high volume and more efficient factory, and better distribution channels, so their cost per unit will be lower.

Also, as stated earlier, R&D needs to be recouped too, as well as marketing.

 

[raypin]

mmm....worth it or not is not just about the price but also about the opportunity cost: the price of Utopia is USD 4,000.00 plus plus (taxes, etc.). Opportunity cost: an HD 800 S plus the brand-spanking new Woo Audio WA8 costs around USD 3700.00 plus plus, with enough left over for a nice steak dinner for two in a fancy restaurant. . Question: is the Utopia > HD 800 S + Eclipse WA8 combo????

 

[Allanmarcus]

mmm....worth it or not is not just about the price but also about the opportunity cost: the price of Utopia is USD 4,000.00 plus plus (taxes, etc.). Opportunity cost: an HD 800 S plus the brand-spanking new Woo Audio WA8 costs around USD 3700.00 plus plus, with enough left over for a nice steak dinner for two in a fancy restaurant. . Question: is the Utopia > HD 800 S + Eclipse WA8 combo????

Many factors come into play. Will they Oscar the steak? How cute are the waitresses? What sides come with the steak?

 

[HiFiGuy528]

  I was thinking about the hefty price tag for the Utopia.... and then draw a parallel my own speakers.. Focal Solo 6... a pro monitor with basically utopia grade drivers.. beryllium tweeter and so on... $2,500 a pair... and on top of that you have the amplifier... 
How can selling a $4,000 headphone be making any sense ? Damn they must make good money on these ones.

 
I own the Solo6 + Sub. While it's a fantastic little monitor system, the room and positioning are essential for them to sound good. I also own the Focal Mezzo Utopia speakers as reference. If the Utopia HP sounds as good as the speakers, $4K is a bargain. Additionally, you don't have to deal with room acoustics. Put them on and they'll sound great in any room!
 
I am happy to see Focal taking HP listening to the next level. Right now, there are too many "good" and "great" sounding hps on the market. We need hps that has "holly crap" performance.
 

 

[jude]

32 ohm. Or. 80 ohm. ... I wonder which is the correct value ?

Focal website has the specifications at 80 ohm , this thread (and other websites have the value as 32 ohm).

 
I just received word from Focal that the impedance is indeed 80Ω for both headphones, so we'll post an annotation on the video, and I'll also post a correction notice on the first post of this thread.
 
Sorry about that, guys. That was the information I had.
 
(We'll soon be getting the new Audio Precision APx1701 to use with the APx555 we have here, so we'll start doing our own impedance measurements when that arrives.)

 

[Duke40]

 

32 ohm. Or. 80 ohm. ... I wonder which is the correct value ?

Focal website has the specifications at 80 ohm , this thread (and other websites have the value as 32 ohm).

 
I just received word from Focal that the impedance is indeed 80Ω for both headphones, so we'll post an annotation on the video, and I'll also post a correction notice on the first post of this thread.
 
Sorry about that, guys. That was the information I had.
 
(We'll soon be getting the new Audio Precision APx1701 to use with the APx555 we have here, so we'll start doing our own impedance measurements when that arrives.)

Thanks Jude.   Great video & interview with the Focal guy,  good on you.
 
I also just now sent an email to Focal via their website support, alerting them that the specifications sheet on the website says 80 ohm ... yet all the reviewers are stating 32 ohm (not just here on headfi, but audiohead, woo audio, pretty much everyone is saying 32 ohm).    Something must have gone wrong/mixed up in the communications being sent out.  Weird, is was just the impedance that was mistyped/miscommunicated to everyone.
 
Utopia is a beautiful looking headphone.
Interesting choice of using carbon fibre in the headband, wonder effect this has on any resonance in the headband.   Beneficial I suspect.
 
John

 

[LeMat]

   
I own the Solo6 + Sub. While it's a fantastic little monitor system, the room and positioning are essential for them to sound good. I also own the Focal Mezzo Utopia speakers as reference. If the Utopia HP sounds as good as the speakers, $4K is a bargain. Additionally, you don't have to deal with room acoustics. Put them on and they'll sound great in any room!
 
I am happy to see Focal taking HP listening to the next level. Right now, there are too many "good" and "great" sounding hps on the market. We need hps that has "holly crap" performance.
 

Comparing a 4k headphone to this setup sure looks like a bargain. My point was, if they can sell the Solo6 for that price, acknowledging they are pretty much made with the same tech, have 2 extra woofer, 2 amps, at almost half the price well.... from a pure margin perspective, they went all out with the Utopia headphone. I also have the sub pairing with the monitor and it's so good, that I've sold my Moon 600i and Dynaudio speakers for this. It was a 5th of the cost for 90% of SQ. Indeed, my room acoustic is the limiting factor. 
Now I'm sure they have done their homeworks and didn't come up with this retail price out of the blue. It fits the brand image they want. I don't know if you guys have read the book "predictably irrational", but they have a good theory on flagship stuff (yes, this foie gras starter on the menu at twice the price of anything else). It's to boost the sales of the lower end product making it look like a bargain.... 

 

[grizzlybeast]

No headphone touches with a ten foot pole the enveloping, body rushing experience of speakers. There is no way possible. 
 
The headphone would have to: 
- have a soundstage 5 times more spacious than the HD800
- Come with a full body suite from head to toe to let your body of 65% water vibrate according to the frequencies played and at the specific parts of your body
- be practically weightless and unable to be felt while on your head
- wireless so you can hear it in any part of your room or house
so on and so on. 
 
4k buying you that experience makes a lot more sense. There is only so much a headphone can do. 4k is a bit much honestly but diminishing returns is a biatch 

 

[XERO1]

  Definitely not justifying it's $4k price. Beryllium is found in cheaper Xiaomi models, so any claims of 'rare metal' used in drivers is twisting the truth. Obviously it's rarer + pricier than common materials used but in this day and age, it's not difficult to acquire.

 
The "beryllium" drivers that the Xiaomi, RBH and some other headphones use are actually beryllium-coated Mylar drivers.
 
The Utopia has the world's first 100% pure beryllium dynamic driver.
 
And the Elear has the world's first aluminum-magnesium alloy dynamic driver.

 

[warrenpchi]

 

32 ohm. Or. 80 ohm. ... I wonder which is the correct value ?

Focal website has the specifications at 80 ohm , this thread (and other websites have the value as 32 ohm).

 
I just received word from Focal that the impedance is indeed 80Ω for both headphones, so we'll post an annotation on the video, and I'll also post a correction notice on the first post of this thread.
 
Sorry about that, guys. That was the information I had.
 
(We'll soon be getting the new Audio Precision APx1701 to use with the APx555 we have here, so we'll start doing our own impedance measurements when that arrives.)

 
FYI, that was the information I was initially given as well (32Ω for both headphones).  

 
 

---

 
Also, I know I'm no longer a moderator here, but might I suggest that a more general discussion about flagship pricing, inflation, or value be forked off into its own separate thread?  It seems to me that such a discussion is a worthy one to have, but it applies to multiple products and brands (as well as our hobby at large), and thus is probably deserving of it's own thread.  Maybe that new thread could also include a poll as well?
 
In any case, forking that discussion into it's own thread would at least keep this one on-topic.  I think that would be very much appreciated by future visitors to this thread, as they would be seeking impressions first and foremost, and not necessarily pages and pages of our posts discussing the topic of pricing - which is obviously relevant - but ultimately a larger and separate topic as well.
 
Just my 2¢ here.  

 

 

[Dillan]

Is the Elear drivers pure aluminum-magnesium alloy or is it coated?

 

[jude]

  Is the Elear drivers pure aluminum-magnesium alloy or is it coated?

 
Hi @Dillan, it's an aluminum-magnesium alloy, not coated.

 

[conquerator2]

Now I am really excited to hear the Elear as a potential purchase and also the Utopia for curiosity's sake.
Did not expect one from Focal. Magnifique
Hopefully the price in Europe will be comparable!