[maricius]

  For the people that own or have demoed both the R2A and R2pro, is there any difference in the basic sonic signature? I know the bass and level of detail differs (and soundstage), but is there an actual difference in how they sound?

Mids on the PRO are clearer. I'm assuming this is because of bass bleed. Also, treble is more present but still very smooth. Overall, it's the audiophile version/direct upgrade to the R2A. 

 

[flinkenick]

Thanks, that's pretty clear. Sounds like the R2pro is overall more of an improvement then not just the imaging.

 

[destrozer]

  Thanks, that's pretty clear. Sounds like the R2pro is overall more of an improvement then not just the imaging.

 
It is definitely more than just the imaging for me. The R2Pro resolves better than the R2A, not by alot, but a very noticeable amount. Details are much more prominent in the R2Pro.

 

[Selenium]

I still have a hard time swallowing that the only difference is in the housing metal. Especially when you consider that entry level stuff in a line tends to be "fun"(R2A) and the more expensive stuff tends to be balanced(R2Pro)...it's just strange to me that the R2 series follows that trend without it really being an intentional thing. I guess, why not. But it makes me wonder, like why doesn't Vsonic come out with a GR07 Steel Edition or something and automatically have a better sounding unit they can charge twice as much for?

 

[sodesuka]

I still have a hard time swallowing that the only difference is in the housing metal. Especially when you consider that entry level stuff in a line tends to be "fun"(R2A) and the more expensive stuff tends to be balanced(R2Pro)...it's just strange to me that the R2 series follows that trend without it really being an intentional thing. I guess, why not. But it makes me wonder, like why doesn't Vsonic come out with a GR07 Steel Edition or something and automatically have a better sounding unit they can charge twice as much for?

It probably has to do with the patent pending technology they have and it's probably not done by just slapping metal around drivers (they talked about the enclosures have to have 10 micron tolerance). It does sound unbelievable, but the proofs are already in people hands now.
 
Some reading I had found before I was convinced in backing this KS back then:
http://www.audiopronet.com/gear/sound-reinforcement/flare-audio
http://www.psneurope.com/flare-necessities-exclusive-interview-with-davies-roberts/
 
IIRC, this is similar with what 1964ears is doing with their ADEL line ups?

 

[Jobbing]

I just got a used set of Flare R2Pros and I think they’re pretty great. I’m amazed by their small size. I’m using the stock complys. 

Soundstage is pretty interesting as it’s a bit more in front of the head than inside the head. Just a bit. it’s not particularly wide but imaging is excellent. My first impression is that their tone is very natural and realistic. bass is present but only very slightly boosted (I prefer that for my IEMs to make up for loss of body impact). it’s quick and clean and tight.

Mids are very natural and clear. I think there might be a little bit of upper mids recession to prevent some shoutiness but I don’t think it’s very much. Overall, all my key songs to test male and female vocals and stringed instruments sound excellent. very rich and present. No mid bass bleed or bloat. 

Treble is very smooth with no harshness. Some tracks I have that are mastered a bit hot and are compressed don’t sound painful or shrill - they sound closer to my speakers. but I don’t get the sense that the treble is too heavily subdued. there is a nice sparkle when called for.

As a first impression, I’m very happy. The sound is clean, clear, excellently balanced. Lots of detail and speed: instruments have a good sense of space and complex passages don’t sound compressed or fuzzy. I’m a bigger “tone" guy than “details” guy so keep that in mind with my impressions. It’s possible other IEMs in this price range can extract more detail but I doubt I’d be able to tell.

^^THAT ....great write up, that's exactly how I feel about the R2 pro's, the bolded part describes best what makes these enticing and addictive iems. Well done!

 

[Midgetguy]

  It probably has to do with the patent pending technology they have and it's probably not done by just slapping metal around drivers (they talked about the enclosures have to have 10 micron tolerance). It does sound unbelievable, but the proofs are already in people hands now.
 
Some reading I had found before I was convinced in backing this KS back then:
http://www.audiopronet.com/gear/sound-reinforcement/flare-audio
http://www.psneurope.com/flare-necessities-exclusive-interview-with-davies-roberts/
 
IIRC, this is similar with what 1964ears is doing with their ADEL line ups?

Either way, the result is just plain science and awesomeness. And I'm always down for that

 

[Deviltooth]

I still have a hard time swallowing that the only difference is in the housing metal. Especially when you consider that entry level stuff in a line tends to be "fun"(R2A) and the more expensive stuff tends to be balanced(R2Pro)...it's just strange to me that the R2 series follows that trend without it really being an intentional thing. I guess, why not. But it makes me wonder, like why doesn't Vsonic come out with a GR07 Steel Edition or something and automatically have a better sounding unit they can charge twice as much for?

I'm with you on this one.  I find it very difficult to believe that the same driver will sound any different in another housing where the only change is the type of metal used.  With speakers I can see it but the rigidity of aluminum vs. titanium in that small a construct creating a different sound just seems strange to me.

 

[WCDchee]

It probably has to do with the patent pending technology they have and it's probably not done by just slapping metal around drivers (they talked about the enclosures have to have 10 micron tolerance). It does sound unbelievable, but the proofs are already in people hands now.

Some reading I had found before I was convinced in backing this KS back then:
http://www.audiopronet.com/gear/sound-reinforcement/flare-audio
http://www.psneurope.com/flare-necessities-exclusive-interview-with-davies-roberts/

IIRC, this is similar with what 1964ears is doing with their ADEL line ups?

No, adel aims to reduce normalise in the ear to protect the ear while flare aims to normalise pressure in the driver unit to minimise distortion.

I still have a hard time swallowing that the only difference is in the housing metal. Especially when you consider that entry level stuff in a line tends to be "fun"(R2A) and the more expensive stuff tends to be balanced(R2Pro)...it's just strange to me that the R2 series follows that trend without it really being an intentional thing. I guess, why not. But it makes me wonder, like why doesn't Vsonic come out with a GR07 Steel Edition or something and automatically have a better sounding unit they can charge twice as much for?

I dont think you can simply say that it would be better. Different materials have different resonant properties. You have to take the driver unit into account, how they would sound now and how changing the resonance chanmber would affect that sound. That probably is more important than simply finding a "better metal"

 

[WCDchee]

I'm with you on this one.  I find it very difficult to believe that the same driver will sound any different in another housing where the only change is the type of metal used.  With speakers I can see it but the rigidity of aluminum vs. titanium in that small a construct creating a different sound just seems strange to me.

I think regardless of size, you change the resonance chamber and that would affect sound. If you want to have an idea of how the sound can be affected if you remove thr back tailcap for a quick listen. The sound changes vastly.

 

[Deviltooth]

I think regardless of size, you change the resonance chamber and that would affect sound. If you want to have an idea of how the sound can be affected if you remove thr back tailcap for a quick listen. The sound changes vastly.

I don't think that's an apt comparison.  The rigidity of the R2As aluminum vs the R2 Pro's Titanium shouldn't be that much.  I wonder if the housings differ in some other fashion... i.e. end cap differences... Or if the driver itself is somehow different.

 

[WCDchee]

I don't think that's an apt comparison.  The rigidity of the R2As aluminum vs the R2 Pro's Titanium shouldn't be that much.  I wonder if the housings differ in some other fashion... i.e. end cap differences... Or if the driver itself is somehow different.

Sure differences may seem small, but they make a difference. Whether you change the driver material or the housing material, you are inherently changing the resonance properties of the whole unit. That will definitely affect the sound. Its the same reason why the jvc wood series uses not only wooden drivers but also woooden housings. In fact, I can assure you that there are other high end DD iem makers that are looking at different housing metals at this point too for a different sound signature. That particularl company has chosen to forgo certain materials for the housing precisely because of their poor resonant qualities.

If you take a look at the ocharaku flat 4 series, while i wont say for sure that the housing material is the only difference, i am pretty sure that the housing material is the only way they tune the sound. Between the original and the type 2 kaede (not the red version which has a longer sound tube), in fact, the only difference is that the maple wood that's used is aged differently. Again this caused a difference in the sound.

Therefore I'm very certain that having a different housing would definitely affect the sound noticeably otherwise, flare should just havr stuck to aluminium with the slight machining changes.

 

[LuckyNat]

No, adel aims to reduce normalise in the ear to protect the ear while flare aims to normalise pressure in the driver unit to minimise distortion.
 

 
Listen to Davies Richards (Flare's designer/owner) he says it has a dual benefit and the two come hand in hand.
 
I think most people, when reading "minimise distortion" in relation to the Flares will be thinking of distortion in the sense of some noise on a waveform.  The word distortion is wider than that and means anything diverging from the input signal.
 
In the Flare's case, the distortion they feel they've eliminated is the distortion caused by an asymetric movement of the diaphragm and this is also the very same type of distortion which can cause ear damage for lower volumes than should be the case with a symetric diaphram movement. Therefore cause of hearing damage (specifically too large a movement of the ear drum in one direction) is minimised inherently to the design/theory. It means you can play louder with the ear drum moving less because loudness is perceived by the whole pressure wave cycle and not perceived from half of it, if you see what I mean.
 
The Adel thing is different in that it appears to be about releasing net pressure in the ear canal when it goes over a mechanical threshold. It doesn't address asymetric movement of the diaphragm -> air -> ear drum. I think it is like when the sea rushes in and out of a shallow cave or cavity in rock, the air compresses and kind of explodes against the back wall of that cavity (a form of rock errosion). The air is pushed hard into the ear canal when playing loud and so the adel is supposed to lower the pressure in there, a pressure valve.
 
For me, the best general way to protect your ears is to turn the volume down and you can only do that when the isolation is very high - a good sealing tip pushed in well is good for this.

 

[WCDchee]

Listen to Davies Richards (Flare's designer/owner) he says it has a dual benefit and the two come hand in hand.

I think most people, when reading "minimise distortion" in relation to the Flares will be thinking of distortion in the sense of some noise on a waveform.  The word distortion is wider than that and means anything diverging from the input signal.

In the Flare's case, the distortion they feel they've eliminated is the distortion caused by an asymetric movement of the diaphragm and this is also the very same type of distortion which can cause ear damage for lower volumes than should be the case with a symetric diaphram movement. Therefore cause of hearing damage (specifically too large a movement of the ear drum in one direction) is minimised inherently to the design/theory. It means you can play louder with the ear drum moving less because loudness is perceived by the whole pressure wave cycle and not perceived from half of it, if you see what I mean.

The Adel thing is different in that it appears to be about releasing net pressure in the ear canal when it goes over a mechanical threshold. It doesn't address asymetric movement of the diaphragm -> air -> ear drum. I think it is like when the sea rushes in and out of a shallow cave or cavity in rock, the air compresses and kind of explodes against the back wall of that cavity (a form of rock errosion). The air is pushed hard into the ear canal when playing loud and so the adel is supposed to lower the pressure in there, a pressure valve.

For me, the best general way to protect your ears is to turn the volume down and you can only do that when the isolation is very high - a good sealing tip pushed in well is good for this.

Thats kinda what i mean haha.

But with regards to the adel, i think its because as you insert iems, due to the seal you get a build up of pressure. That tightens up the eardrum tension resulting in louder volumes to cos the same amplitude of vibrations in the eardrum and hence perceived volume. Having said that i honestly dont think it makes sense having thought about how the energy is transmitted and how you hear with hair cells and stuff in the cochlear

 

[LCfiner]

I've spent some more time with the R2Pro and I continue to be very impressed. The sound is right up there with the best TOTL universals that I've heard, imo. The evenness of tone, clear mids, bass tightness and power, coherent imaging and forward soundstage are all excellent. 
 
I've had IEMs that had WIDER soundstage (1p2 and Senn IE800) but those had issues with tonality. 1p2 had a noticeably recessed midrange (too much for my taste) and the IE800 have a bit too much of a V shape sound (although mids are more prominent than on 1p2). cymbals can sound papery and light. bass can be a bit too much on the IE800. The R2pro does not have those issues. Treble is smooth and cymbals have bite and clarity, but also weight. Bass digs deep and has a slight midbass kick but never feels like it intrudes on the mids.
 
For fun, I tried comparing these to the Kef M200. A midrange IEM that I've liked since I first got them and always thought they punched above their weight. I always thought those had pretty natural tone and great soundstage and bass. But compared to the R2Pro, they sound very shouty in the mids and the bass is way, way overblown. It's almost like an assault on the ears when listening to them right next to the R2pro. The funny thing is that I don't remember feeling this down on the M200 when comparing them against the IE800. But against the flares, they sound very unnatural. 
 
Against other good, sub $1k IEMs that I've owned like the UE900 and Heir 4ai, there's no real contest. these flares have much better mids, much more impactful bass and more clarity and "realness" to the sound.
 
And I love the slightly forward projected soundstage. It's very unique for IEM, I think. it's not very wide but I love how it feels like voices are slightly in front of me and there is no "3 blob" soundstage. it's a coherent stage spanning from left to right smoothly, just slightly in front of the middle of my head.