[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich Yeah, I have looked at the ingredients. I assumed that if you were working out enough, your body would use the calories, even if it was mostly sugar. Could be wrong, though. I do have protein powder, though. I use that after every workout. I don't know if it does much (not having anything to compare it to), but I feel better if I take some.

That high amount of sugar is very bad for your body. First off, your body cannot process all that sugar at once, and your insulin levels will spike to insane levels. In addition to sugar delivery to tissue, insulin also promotes fat storage, so you can see why a surge of insulin is bad for you. Since your body cannot deal with all that sugar at once, your body will store it as fat (assuming you don't pee it out

)

A calorie is not a calorie. Sugar calories are empty and don't promote anything useful, for reasons I just mentioned. You're better off with slower-digesting nutrients, they provide more useful calories and a steady source of energy for your body. Protein is slower digesting.

 

[jpr703]

A four day split routine works out very well for me. This is my current schedule:

Monday-Chest
Tues-Back
Wed-Off
Thursday-Legs
Fri--Arms
Sat-Off
Sun-Off

Some of my chest exercise do work the arms, just as some of my leg exercises also work the back muscles. By splitting things up the way I do, it still gives the muscles time to recuperate. Working the same muscles two days in a row is where a lot of people run into trouble. This schedule avoids that.

Experiment with a few different routines to see what works best for you. There are some people who will work all their muscles 3 times a week, but for the majority of people, some version of a 4 day split routine works best.

If you're naturally very thin you should start by working out less often and sticking to compound lifts. Lift as heavy as you can for 6 reps, and 3 sets. Also, know that Ectomorphic people, aka hardgainers, can also require more recovery time. Sometimes a routine that takes every other day off (a rolling schedule rather than one that sticks to a strict do this on this day of the week schedule) works much better for those in this boat as well.

Bodybuilding.com has a great workout section that gives several good sample routines. Just beware of bad advice that can exist in the forums and stick to things that work for you.

 

[jpr703]

One more quick thought on protein powders. I do feel that they can be quite beneficial, especially right after working out. However, carbohydrates can also be quite beneficial right after working out. They replace a lot of the energy you burned off during your workout and help create an insulin spike that makes your protein drink more effective.

Many protein companies take the quick and cheap route by mixing sugar (a type of carb) with the protein and selling it as a all-in-one solution.

Personally, I'd rather buy pure protein powder and get better carbs elsewhere. A glass of grape juice or some oatmeal works well for me. Some homemade oatmeal cookies with a moderate amount of sugar can also be real good right after a workout. Follow that up with a pure protein shake and you're there.

You're jug-o-protein will also last longer this way, since you only need 1 scoop of the straight stuff.

 

[DanG]

jpr: I'm not naturally skinny. I've always had a pretty high metabolism and have never been overweight, but on the other hand I gain pretty well. In the army, for example, all my buddies who had worked out before they were drafted lost a tremendous amount of weight whereas I gained a good 10 or 15 pounds in my year and a half, pretty much all of it muscle (legs and back, I think). And we weren't allowed to use weights -- just running, hiking with heavy packs, push-ups, crunches, and manual labor involving heavy lifting. Of course, I hadn't been working out before the army aside from doing push-ups in the morning to help prepare.

For carbs, will any fruit juice do? And is the point basically that natural non-sugar carbs are the best?

 

[jpr703]

If you've got a medium build, I'd highly recommed trying something along the lines my current schedule. Pick 4-6 exercises in each of those daily categories and do 3 sets of each for 6-8 reps. Give it a month and see how it works out.

Oh, and yes, just about any fruit juice will work. Grape juice is just less acidic so it doesn't interfere with my creatine.

And a second yes. Non-sugar carbs are the way to go. You can do some online searches and find a few you like.

 

[DanG]

Thanks j! The 4-day split should work well with the pull-up schedule since I'll be able to take advantage of my time in the gym every day as opposed to coming in Tuesdays and Thursdays just for pull-ups.

 

[Usagi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanG Tom: Thanks, I look forward to hearing from you! Usagi: I have enough trouble as it is with regular pull-ups. I couldn't even complete the Wednesday routine. Got through about 7 sets of only 1 rep each and couldn't do the 8th (behind-the-neck pullups). My max. effort set is maybe 5 pull-ups if I'm feeling particularly good that day. And I don't think I could do a 4-1 schedule because I really prefer to have something that fits between Monday and Friday so I get the weekend off. On top of that, I'm a bit confused by the idea of exercising one body part per day -- if the most important exercises are compound core exercises, they wouldn't they be disqualified? For reference -- I don't think I mentioned this before -- I'm 5'10" and weigh about 170 lbs. most of the time. I consider myself in good shape (in terms of appearance) though I've been drinking a lot of beer this summer and could lose a bit in the gut! In any case I'm worse at sit-ups than I thought I was, so that'll take some work.

My point was to push-it and don't be afraid of going heavy. Sometimes you need to shock your body into accepting higher standards. You should partner up with a buddy or ask someone around you for spots to get that last rep in.

About the one body part per day, it really isn't. When you are hitting chest, you are also doing triceps. When you do legs, which have many different muscles in them, you are doing back (squats, dead lifts, etc.). When you do arms, you are doing biceps, triceps, forearms, (don't forget to do preacher curls with the curl bar; that really hits the triceps). When you do back, you are also doing biceps. I forgot to mention that I do shoulders on my back day. Muscle groups overlap.

I don't really care for the seven-day, weekly cycle. It’s either too long with a 6 day on and 1 day off, or it is too short because you have to take a break every other day. If I want to stay on my 4 day cycle I have to take too long of a break and the benefits gained are slowly lost.

 

[jpr703]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanG Thanks j! The 4-day split should work well with the pull-up schedule since I'll be able to take advantage of my time in the gym every day as opposed to coming in Tuesdays and Thursdays just for pull-ups.

Great! Just count your pullups as 1 arm or back exercise (depending on how you do them) and add some lifting exercises in around them on the appropriate day.

A lot of serious bodybuilders integrate pull-ups, dips and even push-ups into their routines. Body weight exercises can be very effective, especially when mixed with traditional weighted lifts.

Good luck!

 

[migraineboy]

Someone might have mentioned this later in the thread but if you're going to train properly you need to eat properly. No point in following or preceeding a good session with a burger and coke.

So many guys I know wreck their training by eating rubbish. Get a decent training diet book that shows you how to break down your intake of fats, carbohydrates and proteins. You'll thank yourself for it and will see the results of your work far quicker.

Prepare to eat lots of tuna fish in water, chicken and other fat-free delicacies and pasta is a great carbohydrate..

 

[DanG]

I've already changed my diet a lot. I've always been used to eating whatever the hell I want, but that's changed. I'm eating five to six times a day. I drink a lot of milk, water, and orange juice (vitamin c), eat about 6 egg whites a day, basmati rice, and grilled chicken breasts and fish. I also try to get in as many fruits and vegetables as possible. The five-meals-a-day thing is something I only started about two weeks ago, though, so I still don't have huge results. But I have already noticed improvements in my shoulders, arms, back, and chest which confirms my suspicion that I get quick results from working out. I hope the new diet will help me keep improving!

 

[xxhotchikxx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanG Back/Biceps/Legs day: Lying T-bar row Pullups (though I do this every day now) Hyperextensions (w/ machine where I push a pad against the back of my neck backwards) Dumb-bell curls Dumb-bell hammer curls Squats Calf raises Chest/Triceps/Shoulders day: Bench press Decline flies EZbar skull-crushers w/ close grip bench press (1set of each, rest, another set, etc.) Cable arm tricep extension Side lateral raises Behind-the-neck Smith machine press

How many days are you working out per week? 3 days is not enough for what you want to achieve (endurance gains in pushups and pullups). Use the Armstrong technique you got and apply it to your weightlifting as well. The problem with this workout is its too compact and the bodyparts you choose work too close to each other. (eg:chest and triceps/back and biceps are related muscles)

You end up doing only 6 sets for shoulders, 6 sets of triceps and 9 sets of chest during your workout day. By compacting your workout you end up doing nothing for endurance and end up wasting your time.

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

If I was in your situation this is what I would do:

Monday/Wednesday/Friday
- 3 sets of 15, or more on every body part you could imagine.
- Pull up program
- Only do power movements like squats, dead lifts, and bench on Monday, and Friday.

Tuesday/Thursday
- Pull up program
- Aerobic activity – running, swimming, biking, or climbing etc. at least 30 minutes or more is even better.

Saturday/Sunday
- Aerobic activity – running, swimming, biking, or climbing etc. at least 30 minutes or more is even better.

Advise:
1. Pay attention to your body if you seem extremely tired, or have joints that are sore. You may want to take it easy for a while.
2. Continue to eat good like you have been, but try to incorporate more vegetables into your diet just like you said. Maybe buy a vegetable steamer.
3. To do more pull ups you will probably want less resistance by lowering your weight by losing fat not muscle.
4. Good luck!

 

[DanG]

xxhotchikxx: I think I'm going to switch over to the 4-day split as suggested by jpr. Just today (uh, yesterday, I guess... didn't go to bed yet though) I did my pullups and two exercises for triceps (dips and cable arm tri extension). Normally this'll become an intensive arms day but I did back/biceps on Wednesday so I left I biceps out -- though mainly because I didn't have much time today. The pullups I do every day, Monday through Friday.

Crescendopower: I'm trying to work in the entire program that that one Marine officer selection station (Hyattsville, IL apparently) suggests including running exactly like you said -- Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. A question for you: why 3 sets, 15 reps? I thought that too many reps doesn't work the slow-twitch (or fast-twitch, whatever) muscles?

I'll also try to work in their abs routine though it's not so much of a routine... more of a "This is what you do for endurance, this is what you do for speed" sort of thing. Any idea (you or anybody else) how I should work that in? How many rest days do I need between abdominal workouts?

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

Dan,
I don’t know the exact physical testing you will have to go through to pass this test, but I can bet that benching, squatting, and dead lifting a lot of weight is not one of them. If I am correct about this, carrying around an excess of extra bulk will do nothing, but slow you down, and hold you back from your goals. Concentrate on passing the test first, then, you can always go back into the gym later, and put on 15, or 20 pounds of muscle by lifting heavy again. You need to be a mean, lean, light fighting machine.
As, for your abs you can do them 3, or 4 times a week whenever you want.

 

[Usagi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRESCENDOPOWER Dan, I don’t know the exact physical testing you will have to go through to pass this test, but I can bet that benching, squatting, and dead lifting a lot of weight is not one of them. If I am correct about this, carrying around an excess of extra bulk will do nothing, but slow you down, and hold you back from your goals. Concentrate on passing the test first, then, you can always go back into the gym later, and put on 15, or 20 pounds of muscle by lifting heavy again. You need to be a mean, lean, light fighting machine. As, for your abs you can do them 3, or 4 times a week whenever you want.

Usually I would agree, but he is going into the marines and a certain amount of strength is needed.
This is going to depend on your body type. I am naturally very fast, quick and agile, so when I started working out I needed strength to compliment these abilities.