[pigmode]

I ran through the couple of threads dealing these Fishers and now I'd like more info.

They're supposed to have a good HP jack/amp section right? Does anyone have a description and or pics of the HP amp?

It was stated at the DC meet that it sounded good. With what, and in comparison to what?

 

[Budgie]

I believe Fischer used a resistor divider off of the speaker output and did not have anything like a seperate amp for the headphone output. There are some Fischer schematics on the internet, so I would try a Google search.

 

[pigmode]

Thanks. Hmmm, theoretically, do you think such an arrangement is appropriate or optimal for standard dynamic phones?

 

[Hirsch]

At the DC meet, I heard it mainly with the AKG K-1000. I liked it so much I bought a K-1000 and a Fisher 400. As I type this, I've got the R10 plugged into the headphone jack. Bass is as good as anything I've heard from the R10. This is a classic tube sound. Very natural and musical. Lacking the final bit of detail, but adding a natural ease of presentation that many amps today miss completely. I'm using the NS500v and cheap cables that roll of the high end, so that could be part of the missing detail. This turned out to be an easy way to do what I wanted to do in the R10 thread...run the R10 out of a speaker amp...and it works beautifully. Got to try this with the DI/O and some serious interconnects.

(I've already got the tubes I need to do some rolling.

)

 

[mkmelt]

If you go to the Members Lounge, and search, there is a thread named DC Meet: Pictures and Comments dated 8/31/02. There are some nice photos of the equipment heard at this DC/MD/VA meet, including my Fisher 400 receiver.

The Fisher models 400/500C/800 receiver all have a headphone jack on the front panel. The Fisher 500B receiver does not have a headphone jack. Fisher also made integrated amplifiers, I believe these also have a headphone jack.

The headphone output is tapped off of the same outputs as the speakers, by way of some loading resistors. Unlike most tube equipment where speakers must be connected before operating the amplifier, the Fisher 400 can be run without any speaker load because of these internal resistors. I believe they are rated as 8 ohm/5watts.

One quirk of all of the vintage Fisher gear is that the headphone jack is wired with the left/right channels reversed as compared to today's equipment. You can either rewire this or wear your headphones backwards, or in the case of the Senn 580/600, you can reverse the cables where they connect to the headphones. That's what I did.

Fisher tube audio - Accept no substutes.

 

[pigmode]

Thanks, this is all veeery interesting.

mkmelt,
I saw the pic of your amp--it looks immaculate. One like that would be pretty costly I'd imagine.

Hirsch,
If you get the time, I'd like to hear more impressions of the Fischer with dynamic phones in comparison to the Melos or the Zotl etc. I know you're busy...

 

[mkmelt]

Somehow Hirsch's photography made everything sparkle that day. My Fisher 400 is clean, sure, but not polished as it appears to be in the photo.

These receivers show up quite regularly on eBay, right now there are two Fisher 400s there. Expect to pay between $150 and $200 for a working unit, without the wooden case.

The Fisher doctor < fisherdoctor.com > restoration kit and instructions run about $90. This includes replacement capacitors, diodes, and a silicon rectifier to replace the original selenium one (from what I have learned, the selenium rectifiers were used in the early 400s, then they switched to the silicon types.) These must be replaced, otherwise the unit will run too hot and eventually self destruct.

All of the tubes used in the 400 are easy to find and inexpensive, except for the 7868 beam pentode power tubes. The Fisher 400 uses four, they should be in matched pairs. No longer made, they show up on eBay fairly often. Prices for NOS 7868s can approach $50 ea, but typicially used tubes that test good can be had for half that or less.

But beware of people on eBay selling 7868s, I have purchased these a number of times, only to have them test poorly about half the time. You will definitely need access to a good tube tester or you may get ripped off.

Maybe someday someone will start making 7868 tubes again, but don't count on it. The all-glass compactron base of these tubes is unlike any other tube. Some people have converted their Fisher 400s to run on 7591s (similar tube with a different base) and to EL34s, and some even have converted the Fisher 400 to run in triode mode, cleaner but with half the power. But then it's not really a Fisher 400, then is it?

 

[pigmode]

Thanks for the info and the heads-up.

 

[Tuberoller]

We also used a 400 with AKG K1000 at the Chicago meet and I own a few 400, 500B,500C,800B and 800C units.The headphone output is the real deal.My setup is very much the same as Hirsch is using.A 400 w/K1000 and the Sony DVP NS500V.The lack of absolute detail can be addressed somewhat with a cable upgrade.I would try a silver cable.I also have a highly modded unit commonly referred to as a 400X which uses EL34 power tubes in place of the 7868s and 5751s in place of the 12ax7 tubes.this unit is amazing and lacks nothing in terms of detail and resloution.

 

[millerdog]

Tuberoller,
How would you compare a "stock" 400 with the 400X? I was looking into that avenue against a fisher doc restoration.
thanks,
md

 

[Tuberoller]

Miller,

the sound is more "modern" sounding.the treble is much more detailed and the midrange is not as forward or bloomy.the guy that does the conversions can be found Here ,click on Fisher 400X.He is a local guy.The pics don't do the unit justice.I kept my stock knobs and at the time my unit was done the power cord and switch options were not available.the speaker terminals are upgraded as well and my unit is further upgraded with tube rolling.You can also supply a unit and cut the price in half.I must warn you about Paul,he is a huge *******.He does good work but thinks he is the only game game in town.He thinks that the world runs on his clock and everyone in it has to wait for him.I do not personally like the guy.I have heard that recently he has gotten much better with down times and attitude problems but deal at your own risk.I will never speak to him again.His mods are not as involved as he claims and I am sure there are others who can do this work.I would look around.Try the Fisher Docter before you jump on this mod and keep in mind that once this unit is modded ,there is no turning back.

 

[millerdog]

thanks Tuberoller,
I searched AA and found some info on his mods. I think though that what you say about his uh...methods make me want to stay away. I think I would be better served to use Al at the fisherdoc to just restore and not mod the 400. Like the guys on AA say: "then it wouldn't be a fisher,would it?"
again, thanks on the heads up.
md

 

[pigmode]

Those restorations must cost some bux.

 

[millerdog]

Pigmode,
I think both the fisherdoc and 2baudio quote around $400-500 in complete restoration costs. Restored units are around a grand.
You are into SETs and these are PP.
I got my 400 for $175 so the restoration costs seem reasonable. If it arrives in good condition then I'll probably just use the fisherdoc's Restopak for $90.
I gotta wonder though, I was going to get the Mapletree EAR+($400 assembled) until I read about the Fishers. Perhaps they are a better alternative to tubed HP amps.
Any thoughts guys?
md

 

[FCJ]

Quote:

Originally posted by millerdog Pigmode, I think both the fisherdoc and 2baudio quote around $400-500 in complete restoration costs. Restored units are around a grand. You are into SETs and these are PP. I got my 400 for $175 so the restoration costs seem reasonable. If it arrives in good condition then I'll probably just use the fisherdoc's Restopak for $90. I gotta wonder though, I was going to get the Mapletree EAR+($400 assembled) until I read about the Fishers. Perhaps they are a better alternative to tubed HP amps. Any thoughts guys? md

So I guess the ebay guy got back to you, finally?