First "lead free"............
Mar 8, 2006 at 2:02 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16

rickcr42

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Forcing a scramble to make the unrelaible work now this

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatur...e/redtape.html

nice one
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Mar 8, 2006 at 2:20 AM Post #2 of 16

aerius

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I wonder what will happen if car companies can't get an exemption for airbag sensor & control modules. It won't be pretty when the lead-free parts fail, airbags fail to go off or blow off for no reason, and people start dying.
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 2:46 AM Post #3 of 16

rickcr42

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What annoys me to no end and something I have ranted on in various threads on RoHs compliance is the lie...um I mean propaganda...um facts being force fed to the unsuspecting on how every thing is just peachy so be happy and relax.

If this is so true then why do essential services get a free pass ? If everything is fine why then is it not good enough for the medical industry or the military where "unreliable" truly does meen someone may actually die ?

It is what it is and is LAW so why lie about it ? Just say "here it is now deal with it" but that is not even close to the real content on this topic that at every turn lies about the real state of affairs
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 3:42 AM Post #5 of 16

aerius

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I'm just glad I no longer work in the electronics assembly industry.

Here's the fun part, notice that all Class II (medical & telecommunications) and Class III (military & aerospace) devices are exempt, and only Class I (consumer level crap) is covered. There's a reason for that as you pointed out, but once the bureaucracy gets rolling there's no stopping it.
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 4:14 AM Post #6 of 16

rickcr42

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Quote:

So Rick, for the amp and cable DIYers here on HeadFi, starting in July all products sold to European customers must be made from lead-free parts and soldered with lead-free solder, correct?


As far as I can tell the underground "plain brown wrapper" type sellers are safe until or if caught but all legit outlets are pretty much screwed unless they too are willing to cheat.

That in itself sucks because it makes criminals out of some who would otherwise play by the rules but I can not see any way for the little mid level operator to have the means to fully comply and if they could why would they want to ?

Lead free is not a perfected technology yet is being force fed.This means either retool and upgrade everything to be in compliance then hope for the best (as in best being low product returns
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),not cheap by the way,or go underground or go back at the law and try and get it modified (slim chance of THAT happening).

is another case where the multinational corporation selling disposable electronics will have an advantage but this time more than just a financial advantage but actually has the law on their side to eliminate the competition.
The smaller operations do not have the means to pay the proper bribes...um.... I mean legal fees
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for a grandfather clause allowing them the time to come up to speed without going broke or law modification in favor of that operator.

There was a time when the "LAW" meant it was to diiferentiate between right and wrong with little doubt in anyone's mind what the difference was but in recent history the law is used to promote agenda or to pay favor to certain groups or even protect others (market share disguised as being green only to shut out the competition and thus shut them down from international trade rights).

Something can be illegal and be morally right or legal and be morally wrong.Twisted law using twisted logic.

As I have said here in threads many times and this most recently repeated at 6 moons,how can you claim to be making laws to protect the environment when the very law makes the amount of metal leaching into the earth multiply tenfold because the products themselves are garbage ?
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 4:35 AM Post #7 of 16

nikongod

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the painfully obvious loophole is manufactureers building gears "for military specs" using leaded solders, and sellign them as consumer products at a "loss."

both a tax and "emisions" loophole. if you look at it diagonally of course. straight on it looks like a slit in the fabric of the world....
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 5:19 AM Post #8 of 16

rickcr42

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Quote:

the painfully obvious loophole is manufactureers building gears "for military specs" using leaded solders, and sellign them as consumer products at a "loss."


two points on that :

1-it is dishonest and even though I realise moral integrity is not held in as high esteem as it once was is still forcing dishonesty on someone who would otherwise not be if they want to do business.

2-You don't just call something"MIL-Spec" and it is that.There are standards and test proceedures you have to go through in order for that to be designated for that class and once you DO comply it would not be a loss but a serious one if sold at consumer prices.
Mil spec goes beyong catch phrases and to operation under the most extreme conditions without failure and that means a level of construction and parts far beyond what is normal for consumer level gear expectations. Who could do business in a perpetual loss mode ?

The "loophole" is have enough loot to buy your own sanction free market or see ya later bye
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 2:31 PM Post #9 of 16

braillediver

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More B.S. There’s a reason why the European economy is tanking and 15% unemployment is acceptable there

If lead free assembly is no big deal- fly in an airplane assembled with such techniques?


Mitch
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 6:08 PM Post #11 of 16

marvin

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The added expense in making Mil-Spec versions of things varies. A Mil-Spec C-Moy would be a piece of cake. A Mil-Spec DVD player would be a nightmare.

But most of the added expense isn't in the design and parts. It's in the testing which is very time and manpower intensive compared to the testing that consumer grade stuff gets.

And for audio gear, tin pest isn't a big issue. Most audio gear stays indoors and warm enough where diamond cubic tin won't form. However, tin whiskers can be a big issue, and those form well at room temp. That could be fairly nasty for high voltage/high current tube amps with tin solder.
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 6:17 PM Post #12 of 16

rickcr42

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Quote:

And for audio gear, tin pest isn't a big issue. Most audio gear stays indoors and warm enough where diamond cubic tin won't form. However, tin whiskers can be a big issue, and those form well at room temp. That could be fairly nasty for high voltage/high current tube amps with tin solder.


we all need to remeber it is not just the solder but every single electronic componant that must comply.Integrated circuits,switches,optoelectonics,discretes,everthi ng both mechanical and electrical.
you combine that with higher temps needed for even a "maybe good enough/maybe not" solder bond and you risk melting some parts so the dielectrics also need to be higher temp replacements that may or may not be piss poor.This effects every level of the electronic industry from raw parts to finished products

The opening shot was the elimination of the polystyrene capacitor material and now this.

Again it is my personal opinion if everything is so great why do essential service electronics get a pass ? If the what I beleive to be the "big lie" is in fact true (the content put out by those who would convince you) then why is it not good enough for the medical industry ? The military ? Aerospace ? and any corporation with deep enough pockets or the right bribe in place to take a pass while we the consumer are not offered the same option ?

any time you see certain laws passed that effect commerce you need to look at the exemptions then ask a simple "why ?"

That alone usually leads to at least the edges of the truth......................
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 7:09 PM Post #13 of 16

rickcr42

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eco-lrg.gif


[size=medium]"Bringing cheap disposable electronics to the world while making you think it is a good thing"[/size]

Progress ? Hardly.I don't consider a leap back a step forward no matter how it is sugar coated
 
Mar 8, 2006 at 11:09 PM Post #15 of 16

PinkFloyd

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Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin

And for audio gear, tin pest isn't a big issue. Most audio gear stays indoors and warm enough where diamond cubic tin won't form.



Wrong. Oh so wrong. Tin pest begins in the cold so just stop and think a moment......

Where do all the components come from? Do they sit in nice warm containers whilst they are being shipped through places like the Antarctic? Do they hell! they are subject to the cold on their travels and once tin pest starts you cannot stop it as it seeds, it's like a cancer, no amount of warmth will stop it.

So folks, unless they start shipping components in warm temperature controlled cartons and those same components "never" get exposed to sub zero temperatures then there's the likeliehood that tin pest will most definitely take hold.

Electronic equipment that lives outdoors in the winter? (cars etc.) expect unreliability to be commonplace and when you're sitting in the middle of a snowdrift in your broken down car remember to say a big THANK YOU to these stupid Eurocrats.... oh and don't wander into a pub for a smoke and a pint whilst you're waiting for the tow truck there may be a nicotine fascist inside waiting to impose an on the spot fine........

A good "old" thread on this subject here
 

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