[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head Injury /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, speaking of personal attacks, what do you call that? If it's an consolation, I've heard no high-end DACs but have heard onboard, an iPod 5.5G, a Clip, an XtremeGamer card, and the uDAC. To my ears the uDAC trumps all of them. iPod and Clip both beat onboard, but for my short time with the Clip I couldn't really deem it better or worse than the iPod. The XtremeGamer beats both portables. The uDAC beats the card. I haven't done blind testing, but I can immediately tell the difference between the two. The uDAC has better defined bass, more detail, more separation, and a darker background. If it's colored to make it sound better than it is, I don't care. I listen to Grados and I use a tube amp. I'm not exactly looking for flawless neutrality here. But I have heard both the Clip and uDAC like you did, and I find the uDAC much better. What does that mean? That I'm a cult member? That you're a troll? Or is it just that we have different tastes, different priorities, different experience? The uDAC is a fine upgrade for an audiophile newbie. Perhaps you think otherwise because you have experience with better DACs. Though regardless of experience I strongly, strongly disagree with your statement that the Clip sounds better, and would blind test them in a moment if I had the capabilities.

I call it a defense against being attacked by raising my posting history as some sort of issue. What on earth does that have to do with anything?

It's a personal attack designed to discredit me and my opinion on anything, also known as an ad hominem attack.

If you think the uDAC sounds better than the Clip - that's your personal opinion. That's completely fine. You said why and you gave your reasons. I don't have a problem with that. The background might even be "darker," that is one thing I didn't observe. There is room for differences, and I think everyone should be able to state those differences. For me, compared to a standard and an ideal of neutrality, the uDAC doesn't measure up. If something doesn't measure up, then to me it's not worth any amount of money. For other people, those qualities might not be as much of a priority - like you said regarding grados. But that doesn't mean I can agree that something is good audio or worth the money when imo it isn't. And I think I should be able to say that without being attacked so much just because it's a minority opinion. I think if people listened more critically it wouldn't be as much of a minority opinion, but regardless, all I said was that the clip sounded better. It should be understood that it means "In my opinion it sounds better," otherwise we'd all have to put "in my opinion" after just about every sentence. That's a little ridiculous.

 

[K3cT]

I've never seen anyone so passionate in hating a certain product!

 

[Lil' Knight]

Somebody should change this thread tittle to uDAC appreciation so that we could have peace.

Seriously, if you don't like the uDAC that much, why bother spending time reading and replying to this cult of fanboys? Just because you are unique does not mean you are useful. Telling that people lie or are deaf because they don't agree with your opinions is ridiculous. How good are your ears? How experienced you are with low-end, mid-end and hi-end gears? I still like your imagination of the Pico's sound even when you never heard it before.

How about you open your own thread to criticize the uDAC? Make a tittle like "uDAC Good, detailed, ultra-harsh review from a head fi member with tons of experience". That way would satisfy a lot of people, including the fanboys here (have peace) and your own self (prove the uDAC is crap).

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I call it a defense against being attacked by raising my posting history as some sort of issue. What on earth does that have to do with anything? It's a personal attack designed to discredit me and my opinion on anything, also known as an ad hominem attack.

I'm talking about calling fans of a product a cult, and the reviewer who first introduced us some sort of devious ringleader intent on taking over the world with his mindless drooling slaves. I'm paraphrasing, of course. That's a personal attack on every fan of the uDAC, something that's both insulting and preposterous.

Quote:

For me, compared to a standard and an ideal of neutrality, the uDAC doesn't measure up. ...all I said was that the clip sounded better.

I think this is the problem. Instead of stating "The Clip is better" (and while I won't personally agree, I can easily see how you may find it more neutral), I think any and all confusion would have been cleared up if you said "The Clip is more neutral". Because to me, and to everyone here who likes it, it is definitely NOT better. More neutral okay, maybe. But not more detailed, and that's what I was looking for in a DAC. That's my standard of "better". Better is such a horrible word, a lot of confusion across these forums could be cleared up by replacing it with exactly what we mean, and not hand it over to the equally biased reader to take it for what they think it's worth.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've never seen anyone so passionate in hating a certain product!

It's not "hate," it's principle. It's a slippery slope when things like the uDAC get a reputation as having "good" sound. It also diverts people away from gear that is better, which is a disservice to most everyone, although I'm sure the nuforce people are okay with that.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Knight /img/forum/go_quote.gif Somebody should change this thread tittle to uDAC appreciation so that we could have peace. Seriously, if you don't like the uDAC that much, why bother spending time reading and replying to this cult of fanboys? Just because you are unique does not mean you are useful. Telling that people lie or are deaf because they don't agree with your opinions is ridiculous. How good are your ears? How experienced you are with low-end, mid-end and hi-end gears? I still like your imagination of the Pico's sound even when you never heard it before. How about you open your own thread to criticize the uDAC? Make a tittle like "uDAC Good, detailed, ultra-harsh review from a head fi member with tons of experience". That way would satisfy a lot of people, including the fanboys here (have peace) and your own self (prove the uDAC is crap).

Someone asked a question about the uDAC vs. the Fuze. I'm not allowed to answer now because it doesn't agree with your opinion? Why don't you do us all a favor and give us a list of the threads I'm allowed and not allowed to post in, according to you? Only the ones where you agree with what I say, apparently. Does that go for everyone else who doesn't agree with your opinion, too? What makes you the one to decide who should and shouldn't post in a thread, anyway? I guess you've decided this is your forum now, is that it?

The title of the thread should be changed. It should be "uDAC Impressions - only post the good ones, other opinions not welcome or tolerated."

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head Injury /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm talking about calling fans of a product a cult, and the reviewer who first introduced us some sort of devious ringleader intent on taking over the world with his mindless drooling slaves. I'm paraphrasing, of course. That's a personal attack on every fan of the uDAC, something that's both insulting and preposterous. I think this is the problem. Instead of stating "The Clip is better" (and while I won't personally agree, I can easily see how you may find it more neutral), I think any and all confusion would have been cleared up if you said "The Clip is more neutral". Because to me, and to everyone here who likes it, it is definitely NOT better. More neutral okay, maybe. But not more detailed, and that's what I was looking for in a DAC. That's my standard of "better". Better is such a horrible word, a lot of confusion across these forums could be cleared up by replacing it with exactly what we mean, and not hand it over to the equally biased reader to take it for what they think it's worth.

Because I don't think the uDAC is more detailed. Especially in the high end, where the uDAC has extremely weak performance, not to mention the recessed mids. Just like Larry said, I already provided numerous detailed comments about all that, I'm not going to repeat myself every time. I said the Clip (Fuze) was better because I think it is better.

 

[grokit]

Everybody throw away your uDacs and get a Clip!

Don't think about it, just do it based on one Head-fier's "minority objective opinion"!

Then we can start a comparison thread for Apples and Oranges to continue this useless debate, as I truly believe we have gone a bit beyond "first impressions" here.

I think we all understand what Userlander's "first impressions" are at this point, even if nobody seems to share his viewpoint.

Apples and Oranges, does that mean we can keep them both?

Yes! After all variety is the "spice of life", while neutrality could be considered a much more "bland" ingredient.

But bland is perfect for some people, while others need some "flavor" to combat the "de-sensitization" of their individual audio thresholds.

lol

 

[CTechKid]

@ userlander

What USB DAC chip is this uDac smashing DAC-Extasy specifically using?

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTechKid /img/forum/go_quote.gif What USB DAC chip is this uDac smashing DAC-Extasy specifically using?

"WOLSON DAC INSIDE"

That's all it says regarding the chip, but you can see for yourself.

Back to the uDac now?

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTechKid /img/forum/go_quote.gif @ userlander What USB DAC chip is this uDac smashing DAC-Extasy specifically using?

Some kind of wolfson DAC.

But you don't even have to go up to the Extasy for an improvement over the uDAC. I just got that one because he said it was his best DAC at the time and I was curious to compare it against what everyone was raving about in regard to the uDAC. I expected the uDAC to be a lot better, in fact, based on all the hype, thinking that the Extasy was the "budget" choice. Turns out I had it exactly backward.

I would strongly wager that the DAC Straight for the same money as the uDAC would completely blow the uDAC out of the water. The Straight is based on PCM2702, which is an excellent, tried-and-true DAC, with no buffers or anything affecting the signal, just pure DAC coming through. I would imagine that has virtually none of the coloring like the uDAC has, and is much more "pure" and better sounding for the same money (last time I checked).

So why aren't there 100 page threads about that DAC? One word only: marketing. Okay - maybe two words: FOTM.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif Everybody throw away your uDacs and get a Clip! Don't think about it, just do it based on one Head-fier's "minority objective opinion"! Then we can start a comparison thread for Apples and Oranges to continue this useless debate, as I truly believe we have gone a bit beyond "first impressions" here. I think we all understand what Userlander's "first impressions" are at this point, even if nobody seems to share his viewpoint. Apples and Oranges, does that mean we can keep them both? Yes! After all variety is the "spice of life", while neutrality could be considered a much more "bland" ingredient. But bland is perfect for some people, while others need some "flavor" to combat the "de-sensitization" of their individual audio thresholds. lol

It's more neutral, but also more accurate. That means you're getting more of the music, because on the uDAC the high end is relatively more unnatural and seems to be missing lots of tonal or textural information. All the spice in the world isn't going to make up for what isn't there to begin with.

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would strongly wager that the DAC Straight for the same money as the uDAC would completely blow the uDAC out of the water.

We'll find out soon, as I already have a uDac, and a DAC STRAIT is on order.

I have a feeling that I will like them both, as they are very different products; YMMV.

There doesn't have to be a "winner" here.

I would guess that this thread can now be considered fully hijacked

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif We'll find out soon, as I have a uDac and a DAC STRAIT on order. I have a feeling that I will like them both, as they are very different products; YMMV. There doesn't have to be a "winner" here. I would guess that this thread can now be considered fully hijacked

So post the impressions in the hotaudio thread. I for one would be interested to read them. No one objected when I mentioned uDAC there to compare it against the Extasy, so not sure why you call it "hijacking" here. We're mainly talking about the uDAC - it was someone else in fact, not me, who just brought up the extasy to question me on it.

 

[CTechKid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would strongly wager that the DAC Straight for the same money as the uDAC would completely blow the uDAC out of the water. The Straight is based on PCM2702, which is an excellent, tried-and-true DAC, with no buffers or anything affecting the signal, just pure DAC coming through. I would imagine that has virtually none of the coloring like the uDAC has, and is much more "pure" and better sounding for the same money (last time I checked). So why aren't there 100 page threads about that DAC? One word only: marketing. Okay - maybe two words: FOTM.

Its funny that you claim that this thread is 100 pages based on marketing proliferation, and yet you "wager" that the DAC STRAIGHT "would completely blow the uDAC out of the water" and all you use to support that statement is a copy/paste of Dave's marketing pitch from his sale site.

From his site:
Quote:

"I've taken the PCM2702E BURR BROWN USB DAC and I've max'ed it out. I've taken the audio signal STRAIGHT OFF THE DAC and it doesn't go through any buffers or any type of components that may 'colour' the sound in any way. This is about as clean & accurate a sound as you can get out of ANY DAC ANYWHERE (at this price..)."

I've owned the DAC STRAIGHT, and I subsequently sold it to buy the uDac. Sonic detail retrieval was better with the uDac to MY ears in MY chain, with MY taste in music. Yes the 2702 is a very capable Dac chip, but its all about implementation and its surrounding component build up that define its true prowess. The DAC STRAIGHT is a mediocre budget implementation of what the 2702 can truly achieve. I need only compare it to my Keces 151 (which mind you is twice the price) to illustrate what that particular DAC chip is capable of. Naturally YMMV.