[halcyon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy Not true. What do you think the SSRC window is doing? It's a windowed FIR filter. It would be nowhere near as processor intensive if they didn't filter at all.

Hey, try WaveLab, try Sound Forge, try SSRC (foobar 2k, fast mode) upsampling.

I did.

I can hear the artifacts.

With no upsampling there are none.

Simple as that.

May there are faultless implementations, but it appears that they are not as prevalent as I'd like them to be

BTW, I've used the same sample on CD with various upsampling CD players and playback to my headphones. Haven't heard a cd player yet that produces audible artifacts.

regards,
halcyon

 

[halcyon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Sheesh... this board is getting HA-like (or maybe it's just this thread). Then in other threads, we have people replacing op-amps on soundcards and pronouncing huge sonic improvements... frankly, it's just weird. A person has to use their own brain/ears...

Amen.

let's not turn this into another HydrogenAudio.

While Hydrogen Audio forum with it's rules servers a purpose, we don't need to turn Head-Fi into a second rate copy of HA

Let's enjoy and remember that we are not forced to do DBT here before we can say we like someting.

I must also agree with Fewtch that the artifacts with upsampling (when I hear them) are with samples that are considered to be theoretical. Furthermore they are so low in audibility that I wouldn't consider them important for any kind of musical enjoyment.

I merely pointed them out out of personal curiosity. In hindsight, I should have put up a big disclaimer in order to put those tiny artifacts into perspective for others. So here it is now: they don't matter, if you enjoy the music anyway!

The important thing here, IMHO, is to do what rocks your boat.

Hell, I'm going to buy a tube-amp that I _know_ will introduce audible 2nd order harmonics into the sound. That's distortion. A big no-no, in signal theory terms. But I like it! That's what matters. I listen with my ears/brain, not with an oscilloscope

regards,
halcyon

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon Hey, try WaveLab, try Sound Forge, try SSRC (foobar 2k, fast mode) upsampling. I did. I can hear the artifacts. With no upsampling there are none. Simple as that.

If you take into account the likelihood that you're eliminating the brick-wall digital filter at ~20-24 KHz when you upsample (moving it to well above human hearing range), that may explain why upsampling has a "softer," more analog sound (at least to my ears). At least that's the only explanation I can think of why an M-Audio AP 2496 would sound better upsampled than not. It's not a dramatic difference (actually quite subtle) but (as I also have a turntable and am familiar with the sound of analog) it just has more of that top end analog-like smoothness to my ears.

Could be that SSRC and Foobar also brickwall filters, but it seems to me unlikely that any filtering ~20 Khz when upsampling would be as steep as the soundcard's filtering when not upsampling... or it would at least be different.
Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon Let's enjoy and remember that we are not forced to do DBT here before we can say we like someting.

Well, the thing is that here we don't have to do DBT to "prove" that two things sound different. On HA there's a requirement to prove an actual difference before one can say whether they prefer one to the other.

What I find annoying about HA is not the methodology itself (which imo is pretty sound), but the constant emphasis on "proof." What's so wrong with making a claim without "proof" (outside of a scientific journal, anyway)? If anything, it's more fun this way... someone can claim something, everyone can test it for themselves individually and see if their ears (or even measurements/tests) agree. There are things said around here that I agree with, and things I disagree with... wouldn't have it any other way

.

 

[raif]

hey mac users, until someone gets around to making a wav file, check this out.

musa

scroll down and they have a link to a player.

A problem I had with this though is if you move the sample rate up, the tones play faster at a higher pitch, I don't know if that is normal, a problem, or some issue with the player.

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy If you can avoid 24/96 upsampling with SSRC, I would. As Halcyon points out, if you have high-enough resolution gear, subtle artifacts seem to be introduced. With the Chaintech card though, I dunno, 24/96 upsampling may be better. I'm not up to date on what drivers to use with that card to prevent it from resampling internally.

Why do you want to keep it form resampling internally? Hi-res mode seems to resample to 96k on the card and it handles these test samples very cleanly. (I think I just got this figured out in the last day or so, thanks to this this thread and some more testing of the card.)

As I said in the poll thread, I'm using foobar, no SSRC, 24 bit, (dithered or not - makes no difference that I can tell) , waveout, hi-res set in the Via control panel.

 

[tortie]

Wodgy,

Do you have a file that we can test for Windows Media Player yet? I would really appreciate a converted file for them. Thanks!

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon Hey, try WaveLab, try Sound Forge, try SSRC (foobar 2k, fast mode) upsampling. I did. I can hear the artifacts. With no upsampling there are none. Simple as that.

Dude, I wasn't disagreeing with you that there are artifacts. What I was disagreeing with you about was your claim that there are ultrasonic aliases. There aren't.

 

[zachary80]

I ran this without listening too closely, but near the end, I was surprised. I expected a high pitch noise, but instead I got four(maybe more-- but I do not want to listen again) high pitched crescendos(that also went up in pitch) that go with the last numbers.

This was through my GTXP and hd580s, with no DSPs

 

[dip16amp]

I converted the file to wav and opened it with cool edit to see what was in it. The first 0.6 seconds has three dual tones (about 795 Hz and 1339 Hz) at about -40 dB. The last 2.1 seconds are of a single tone about 19374 Hz at about 0 dB. This does not look to me like a very good test with just these three frequencies and I wondered why the first tones are so low in level. To me it is just to way to get people to crank up the volume so the high frequency tone can be blasted into their equipment and ears to damage them. This is not a very good way to test to system. Using RMAA would be much better.

 

[Asmo]

Ugg, only thing this did was give me a headache! No distortion though, very annoying high pitch noise though in the background like everyone mentions, dosn't seem like a very good test.

BTW short edit, I played the file thru my audigy 2 just to see what would happen in foobar2k.

with no dps at all, horrible distortion, wow it was almost all noise.

with resampler to 48k, no distortion.

with resampler + soft clipping, I got a bit of alien noise distortion, odd, shrug, glad i have my revo, these audigy cards do wierd things.

 

[sbulack]

Sounds OK using Foobar with upsampling to 96000 and 24 bit padded to 32 bit with dither out through a Terratec EWX 2496.

 

[CingKrab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich I wouldn't know; I'm using the 1.43d drivers, as per a recommendation given in a recent thread that unfortunately, I can't find. The reason was that in the latest drivers, the volume control would occasionally mess up, or not adjust it equally among the left and right channels. Since there were no sonic improvements made, there's no reason to go with the latest. If you can find the thread (would be in Sources), there's a link to some place that still has them. In any case, no, I don't think it resamples to 96K internally. And I can tell you that with Kernel Streaming, I can get it play resampling from 48K to 96K. Using DirectSound or waveOut, of course, it plays anything.

Yeah, with the old drivers it worked fine... but when I upgraded the drivers and resampler was left on 48K, it would give me an error unless I went to 96K. I know what you're talking about with the volume control... it doesn't adjust the volume, the master "volume control" seems to adjust the left/right balance! Anyways, I always use the volume control on my Pimeta, so it's not a big deal for me.

 

[10068]

I really want a non-APE version.. for some reason i'm having massive troubles installing an APE input plugin for Winamp. Wodgy? WAV? Come on. I'll throw in a couple free cookies!

 

[badmonkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek I really want a non-APE version.. for some reason i'm having massive troubles installing an APE input plugin for Winamp. Wodgy? WAV? Come on. I'll throw in a couple free cookies!

Just download Monkey's Audio yourself, from http://www.monkeysaudio.com/download.html, and decompress the APE to a WAV file. It's very easy.

I would host the WAV myself and will if you honestly can't get that working, but it's really not that hard.

 

[anchorite]

I'm using a HD595 connected to the Creative Audigy2 NX, with the latest version of foobar, i hear only telephone rings, a very very high pitched (should be around 19khz like everyone noticed) sound at the later part of the file and nothing else.

Then I played around with some more settings. When EAX is turned on, ambulence sound appears. Turn off EAX, enable CMSS, there exists a different kind of distortion, maybe some kind of noise-like sound. Shut up CMSS, turn on crossfeed in foobar, there comes left-right-left-right rings. Turned everything off, no distortion any more. Then I used resampler in the foobar, but whichever frequency i chose, there're NOT ANY distortions. I heard creative used another sound chip in its Audigy2 NX, rather than EMU chip, this might be the reason why A2nx does not behave like other audigy products.

The above results can be reproduced when i converted the file to mp3 320kbps and played in WinDVD5, but another interesting thing i noticed is that the Dolby headphone option does not produce any distortion even though the sound is quite different using or not using Dolby headphone.

Note: turn the volume to below 10%. You can hear distortions if there is any.