[JUGA]

OK. Now we have new FW. After 6 month. So, WHERE is FFWD-FRWD?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[csglinux]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I would agree with White Lotus that bombarding FiiO with too many trivial requests could be counter-productive. FiiO's always been pretty good about pushing updates, so I'm hopeful the issues of playback randomly stopping at the end of a track and the volume level kicking up 10 s after plugging in headphones will get fixed fairly soon.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]One thought though - and I hope this isn't a trivial request I asked, half-jokingly, a few pages back about plans for a current-mode amp module. I wonder if I can make that request again, but this time in all seriousness? A couple of others had put in requests for a "basshead" amp module, which makes little sense to me. No disrespect to bassheads out there. I am one myself. I even backed this Kickstarter project:[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2053327139/kannon-headphones-accurate-bass-you-can-feel[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]But there's something very wrong to me about wanting an amp that is going to intentionally corrupt the signal it's given. If we want to mess up the FR, we can use EQ. Perhaps FiiO can add more than a 6 dB boost? Or if we need even more bass, perhaps we can buy a pair of bass-heavy headphones like those linked above? But what is missing from the current X7 amp module line-up is a clean, clear-sounding amp that has THD+N levels like that of the QP1R. No disrespect to FiiO or the X7 - it's a great device - but there's no EQ setting that makes the X7 (with any existing amp module) sound as good as the QP1R. Are there any plans along this line from either FiiO or 3rd party manufacturers? (I'm still a bit puzzled to see the am2 module with higher THD+N specs than those of the am1, but it's great news that the am1 is now available for purchase separately!)[/color]

 

[Brooko]

OK. Now we have new FW. ]After 6 month. So, WHERE is FFWD-FRWD?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With screen on - run your fingers across the "scrubbing bar" the blue progress bar which sits under the album art. This gives you the ability to rapidly ffd or rwd.

I agree that having manual controls for this would be nice - but its not a game breaker, and I'd rather see them fix some of the actual bugs first.

BTW - adding large fonts and caps doesn't really add anything to your request

 

[Brooko]

But what is missing from the current X7 amp module line-up is a clean, clear-sounding amp that has THD+N levels like that of the QP1R. No disrespect to FiiO or the X7 - it's a great device - but there's no EQ setting that makes the X7 (with any existing amp module) sound as good as the QP1R. Are there any plans along this line from either FiiO or 3rd party manufacturers? (I'm still a bit puzzled to see the am2 module with higher THD+N specs than those of the am1, but it's great news that the am1 is now available for purchase separately!)

I don't know the QP1R - but if you look at the specs for the amp modules:
 

Module​	THD+N %​	THD+dB (100 dB sig)​
AM1​	0.0008%​	0.08 dB​
AM2​	0.001%​	0.1 dB​
AM3 SE​	0.001%​	0.1 dB​
AM3 Bal​	0.0008%​	0.08 dB​
AM5​	0.001%​	0.1 dB​

 
While the specs might be impressive - in real world, the distortion is inaudible no matter which way you look at it.
 
The reason the QP1R is likely different sounding will be combo of dac and OP amps and the way they've implemented them.  The funny thing about is that you're talking about colouration when you mentioned the requests for bass response - yet that is exactly what you've asked for yourself in this exercise.
 
If you want cleaner sounding you could also use different earphones or EQ 

 

[csglinux]

 
I don't know the QP1R - but if you look at the specs for the amp modules:
 

Module​	THD+N %​	THD+dB (100 dB sig)​
AM1​	0.0008%​	0.08 dB​
AM2​	0.001%​	0.1 dB​
AM3 SE​	0.001%​	0.1 dB​
AM3 Bal​	0.0008%​	0.08 dB​
AM5​	0.001%​	0.1 dB​

 
While the specs might be impressive - in real world, the distortion is inaudible no matter which way you look at it.
 
The reason the QP1R is likely different sounding will be combo of dac and OP amps and the way they've implemented them.  The funny thing about is that you're talking about colouration when you mentioned the requests for bass response - yet that is exactly what you've asked for yourself in this exercise.
 
If you want cleaner sounding you could also use different earphones or EQ 

Hi Brooko, Yes, I'd seen these tables before. I think your (very helpful) reviews always contain nice detail like this
 
I'm not sure at what level THD+N levels become inaudible, but I suspect it's way lower than the threshold suggested by NwAvGuy. Going from M3->X1->X3ii->X5ii there is an audible bump in clarity (at least to my ears) in each case, even though all these X devices have THD+N<0.005%.
 
I'm definitely not talking about coloration or FR of the sound. I don't hear too much difference in coloration between X7 and QP1R. The main difference is overall clarity and resolution. Of course, one can use cleaner-sounding headphones, but the same problem arises - that same pair of cleaner-sounding headphones is going to sound cleaner still with a good current-mode amp.

 

[KC33]

Has anyone heard when we can expect the AM3 module?

 

[Brooko]

Put it this way - grab any track, and remaster with only diff being 0.2 dB difference.  ABX and see if you can spot it.  Hint - you won't be able to. Now imagine that tiny difference is just noise, and then further imagine that you have 100 dB of music playing over the top of it.
 
That'll put it in perspective for you.
 
Shifting your headphones slightly on your head, or inserting your IEMs slightly differently will have magnitudes more difference that those THD+N figures.
 
The reality is that specs are used as marketing tools by many companies - the actual real world differences are what counts. And the nice thing about FiiO is that they usually (IME anyway) understate their actual specs.

 

[csglinux]

  Put it this way - grab any track, and remaster with only diff being 0.2 dB difference.  ABX and see if you can spot it.  Hint - you won't be able to. Now imagine that tiny difference is just noise, and then further imagine that you have 100 dB of music playing over the top of it.
 
That'll put it in perspective for you.
 
Shifting your headphones slightly on your head, or inserting your IEMs slightly differently will have magnitudes more difference that those THD+N figures.
 
The reality is that specs are used as marketing tools by many companies - the actual real world differences are what counts. And the nice thing about FiiO is that they usually (IME anyway) understate their actual specs.

If we're talking about thrash metal or something poorly recorded with tons of distortion built-in up front, like Coldplay, I'd agree with you. For quality recordings with a decent dynamic range that let you hear the tiniest details over silence, I'd beg to differ. Don't you hear differences from X1->X3ii->X5ii? Are you attributing the improvement in each case to nothing but a slight re-coloration of the sound?
 
P.S. Regrettably, slightly shifting my headphones does not make my M3 sound like the X7
 
P.P.S. Perhaps I need to bring signal-to-noise into consideration too. That also improves from X1->X3ii->X5ii. Either way, there has to be room for improvement in terms of clarity in the am6 module.

 

[Paulo Abreu]

Has anyone heard when we can expect the AM3 module?

AM3 is awesome !!! (No intention to inflict pain...)

Really improved soundstage balanced, such a dark background, bright but not thin, love at 1st sight.

Damned, it was a pain with postage and customs, took me half of day but it was worthy

Regards

 

[mochill]

Am3 definitely worth it

 

[Dobrescu George]

  If we're talking about thrash metal or something poorly recorded with tons of distortion built-in up front, like Coldplay, I'd agree with you. For quality recordings with a decent dynamic range that let you hear the tiniest details over silence, I'd beg to differ. Don't you hear differences from X1->X3ii->X5ii? Are you attributing the improvement in each case to nothing but a slight re-coloration of the sound?
 
P.S. Regrettably, slightly shifting my headphones does not make my M3 sound like the X7
 
P.P.S. Perhaps I need to bring signal-to-noise into consideration too. That also improves from X1->X3ii->X5ii. Either way, there has to be room for improvement in terms of clarity in the am6 module.

 
 
Differences do not come from THD, that was the point. 
 
It's a matter of OP-Amps, buffers and DAC used, togheter with solder, all other components, case, battery, microsd, software of each DAP.
 
The sound comes different, but the differences cannot be measured in THD, neither can it be measured in how the response curve looks like. DAPs with the exact same response curve sound different.
 
Mood can make a difference of 80% to the same track, while we talk about 0.01% THD differences.

 

[mikesale]

at the last RMAF there was a *fantastic* presentation on Specs and he did a great demo on THD and distortion measurement and why you might hear distortion that the specs say you shouldn't.
Well worth a watch: https://youtu.be/2V6YN-mshmY
 
(I am in the audience and admit the full effect is definitely much better in person, but the distortion discussion is a great explanation and reminder of specs and their use)

 

[mochill]

Confirmed that v4a works with neutron and poweramp alpha 703

 

[csglinux]

   
 
Differences do not come from THD, that was the point. 
 
It's a matter of OP-Amps, buffers and DAC used, togheter with solder, all other components, case, battery, microsd, software of each DAP.
 
The sound comes different, but the differences cannot be measured in THD, neither can it be measured in how the response curve looks like. DAPs with the exact same response curve sound different.
 
Mood can make a difference of 80% to the same track, while we talk about 0.01% THD differences.

 
I'll agree that THD+N isn't a perfect quality metric, but it's about the best we have. (Consider the am3, whose S/N is less than that of the am2.) Solder and other components could, of course, give rise to differences, as could EMI shielding. That's all part of the overall picture. I'm not complaining - I like the X7. But I believe there would be a market for an am6.
 
And again, no matter how happy I'm feeling, my M3 is never going to sound as good as my X7.

 

[mochill]

Meh, just went back to stock fiio player