FiiO X1 II (2nd Gen) w/ Bluetooth!

[csglinux]

I know we'd all love gapless playback and a more responsive UI, but the X1ii is totally functional for me. Yes, its BT is slow to toggle, but BT is just a bonus and something I rarely use. IMHO, BT isn't (yet) something that belongs in any discussion on top-quality audio anyway.
 
The fact is, the X1ii works and sounds very good for its tiny size. Its SQ is not far off that of the X7.
Just FYI, the specs of the Cayin N3 show a THD+N of 0.03%, which is an order of magnitude larger than that of the X1ii.
Watch this space. I predict some N3 purchasers are going to be pretty disappointed with its sound quality...

 

[ASpencer]

  If you read my review I decided to put up with the laggier UI as the touch wheel will likely outlast the small physical M1 wheel, battery life is slightly better and sound quality seems just a bit better paired up with my earphones.

 
The touch wheel is the greatest attribute, along with commendable sound, as the wear and tear on other physical DAP wheels becomes far too apparent over time.  The Questyle QP1R has innovatory sound, but the turn wheel is vexing.  I personally prefer the touch wheel to a touch screen, mostly due to the fact my thumb can turn into Vin Diesel from “Fast & the Furious” whenever I race through folders using that wheel.

 

[docholliday]

  I know we'd all love gapless playback and a more responsive UI, but the X1ii is totally functional for me. Yes, its BT is slow to toggle, but BT is just a bonus and something I rarely use. IMHO, BT isn't (yet) something that belongs in any discussion on top-quality audio anyway.
 
The fact is, the X1ii works and sounds very good for its tiny size. Its SQ is not far off that of the X7.
Just FYI, the specs of the Cayin N3 show a THD+N of 0.03%, which is an order of magnitude larger than that of the X1ii.
Watch this space. I predict some N3 purchasers are going to be pretty disappointed with its sound quality...

I have no disappointments with the SQ of the N3. The THD and SNR of the N3 and the X1-II are both tolerable, especially for a low-cost, lightweight unit. Then again, the power output from the N3 is much higher so it can drive difficult IEMs more effectively. Plus, when the THD is as low as both units, one would have to really look to find distortion that is noticably objectionable (as well as seeing what other devices in the signal chain are contributing or capable of).
 
At the same time, I have no disappointments with the X1-II, other than the slow UI. I don't use BT for anything, so that's a moot point for me. I do like the scroll wheel of the X1, but also like having DSD and an EQ with finer granularity in the N3.
 
The construction of the X1 is much better feeling than the N3, but the N3 has a better display and shows the battery level more accurately.
 
So, yes, each has it's weaknesses, but sound quality is not one of them for either unit.

 

[ASpencer]

  I know we'd all love gapless playback and a more responsive UI, but the X1ii is totally functional for me. Yes, its BT is slow to toggle, but BT is just a bonus and something I rarely use. IMHO, BT isn't (yet) something that belongs in any discussion on top-quality audio anyway.
 
The fact is, the X1ii works and sounds very good for its tiny size. Its SQ is not far off that of the X7.
Just FYI, the specs of the Cayin N3 show a THD+N of 0.03%, which is an order of magnitude larger than that of the X1ii.
Watch this space. I predict some N3 purchasers are going to be pretty disappointed with its sound quality...

 
You and I have agreed about gapless previously, but we know that will eventually get addressed via firmware.  I also agree with you how expounding about high quality music files transmitted over Bluetooth is akin to evaluating an HD signal on an old analog TV.
 
I’ve comparatively listened to the X1 II alongside players that cost appreciably more and am surprised how competitive it remains.  I have yet to hear the Cayin N3, making me comparable to others in this thread, but its Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise ratio instantly negates my interest.  That being said, I’m a big proponent of the Lotoo Paw 5000 for my needs and the dampening function along with the PMEQ suits my tastes.
 
My experience with the X1 II’s UI, irrespective of Bluetooth, has been just fine.  I remain enamored of the touch wheel.

 

[ASpencer]

  The construction of the X1 is much better feeling than the N3, but the N3 has a better display and shows the battery level more accurately.
 
So, yes, each has it's weaknesses, but sound quality is not one of them for either unit.

 
It’s useful to hear your direct comparisons.  Given the size of the N3, do you use it on the go and carried in your pocket?  Is it wearable like the Lotoo Paw 5000 that comes with a shoulder strap?  

 

[docholliday]

   
It’s useful to hear your direct comparisons.  Given the size of the N3, do you use it on the go and carried in your pocket?  Is it wearable like the Lotoo Paw 5000 that comes with a shoulder strap?  

Both units are the same size in length and width. The X1 is thicker (just a mm or two), but has the rounded edges. The buttons are nicer on the X1, but the N3's buttons on the side have come in handier when in a pocket.
 
The whole point of the X1 and N3 for me was to have a cheap unit that I could stick in my pocket without an amp or anything else and go about the day. Some days, I'm in front of a keyboard all day. Others, I'm crawling through a wire chase rolling around in nastiness. I can throw either into a pocket or backpack and go out into the woods for a week not worrying about rain or physical damage.
 
It's much better to scratch up and/or destroy a cheaper device than something like a HiFiMan 901. And, I don't have to think about babying it.
 
I have no idea about other portable players. I use my stuff off mixing consoles and outboard gear when at home.

 

[ASpencer]

  It's much better to scratch up and/or destroy a cheaper device than something like a HiFiMan 901. And, I don't have to think about babying it.

 
Agreed, as the X1 II is my rough and tumble unit.  The DAP costs less than the SD card within, so I don’t fret about it.  Neither the Lotoo Paw Gold nor QP1R have left my home.

 

[docholliday]

   
Agreed, as the X1 II is my rough and tumble unit.  The DAP costs less than the SD card within, so I don’t fret about it.  Neither the Lotoo Paw Gold nor QP1R have left my home.

Exactly! I think that for the convenience and piece of mind, the THD differences between both units are less of a concern to me. I'm not sitting in the perfect environment anyways, so I'll take the trade-offs! If I was looking for "the perfect sound", I've got a set of Motu and RME units to connect to. 
 
The charge time of the N3 is much faster. That's a plus. But, I hate silicone cases, so I like the X1's leather sleeve. It's really a toss up to which I'd call "better" at this point in time. Once Fiio fixes the UI bugs, gapless, and slowness, it'll be awesome. And when Cayin gets a leather case out, finishes ReplayGain, and fixes the EQ bug, it'll be awesome.
 
It looks like in the long run, the Cayin will be more serviceable as the back case is held by clips so a battery change will be possible. The X1 looks to have the front glass glued, probably with something like 200MP, so it'll take more work to open up. But, at the price point, it may just be easier to throw it out when that time comes and get whatever is the newest then.

 

[ASpencer]

  The charge time of the N3 is much faster. That's a plus. But, I hate silicone cases, so I like the X1's leather sleeve. It's really a toss up to which I'd call "better" at this point in time. Once Fiio fixes the UI bugs, gapless, and slowness, it'll be awesome. And when Cayin gets a leather case out, finishes ReplayGain, and fixes the EQ bug, it'll be awesome.
 
It looks like in the long run, the Cayin will be more serviceable as the back case is held by clips so a battery change will be possible. The X1 looks to have the front glass glued, probably with something like 200MP, so it'll take more work to open up. But, at the price point, it may just be easier to throw it out when that time comes and get whatever is the newest then.

 
Your post is a pleasure to read as you own both DAPs, speaking from an informed and authoritative place.  While some are purporting a preponderance of specious claims that FiiO is the only company to release products in need of voluminous firmware updates, you’ve shown how that isn’t the case.  To me, firmware improvements show a commitment to the product and I enjoy seeing them implemented.
 
And, you are correct; when the lifespan of an inexpensive unit comes to its inevitable end… then you dispose of it and get something tantamount in price.

 

[docholliday]

   
Your post is a pleasure to read as you own both DAPs, speaking from an informed and authoritative place.  While some are purporting a preponderance of specious claims that FiiO is the only company to release products in need of voluminous firmware updates, you’ve shown how that isn’t the case.  To me, firmware improvements show a commitment to the product and I enjoy seeing them implemented.
 
And, you are correct; when the lifespan of an inexpensive unit comes to its inevitable end… then you dispose of it and get something tantamount in price.

Thank you for the kind words. I am also a software dev and utilize the "agile development" concepts in projects. I think in today's society, that process is very common and almost necessary to ensure product reaching market in a timely fashion. I suspect that a lot of the nay-sayers don't understand the concept and expect something to be perfect when they purchase it. It's much easier to get a basic functionality out and let your users let you know how to make a device "perfect" than to cram what you (your team) deems a perfect device down the users throats (ahem, i-products). 
 
I feel that a product like these (X1-II and N3) are both well done and implemented, despite the "growing pains" of each. And especially at their price point compared to the other items in the audio world. There are a lot of people out there beating on the specs of each, but for the end results, I think they are both "identical" in the long run. I don't call myself an "audiophile" and I don't have time to (borrowing a term from the photo industry) "measurebate"^TM the specs to death. I'm just glad that a product exists that gives me good quality audio, is portable, and I don't have to tiptoe around for fear of destroying it. It'd be like hating on Chevy for not giving that extra .2mpg on a Cobalt because of poor aerodynamics. Now if we were talking about $10,000 studio mixing/mastering/effects stuff, than I could see the specs being more important.
 
I too look foward to new features and fixes from both manufacturers as it shows that they are willing to listen to their most important "engineers", the customer. I'm an electronics engineer, software dev, and also shoot ad campaigns. In my spare time, I do some mastering work for a few bands (from my previous life as a live engineer). I've been on the other end of the stick when it comes to product releases and can sympathise with what these firmware engineers have to deal with on a daily basis!
 
I'm also glad that they take the time to come out on the forums and see what people are saying about their product and respond to our questions and concerns. They've genuinely designed their own product and take the time to get it right (unlike A&K's rebadging of other brands).

 

[bruce1967]

  Yeah the N3 does look good for the price, no doubt.  I have $300.00 earmarked for a new DAP so if I can get mostly what I want for $100.00 less then great.  But I have never owned a Chinese DAP and I really need to see it in action to make a final decision.  I am not one to buy and sell DAP's until I get what I like so I want to wait until all my options are available to make an informed decision. 

Well I have bought and sold a number of DAPs and for what it's worth the N3 to me seems like the most complete DAP out of the box I ever owned. No huge outstanding issues as far as I'm concerned. The bluetooth works perfectly, no lag, feels well built and most importantly it sounds great!

 

[bruce1967]

I have to say though that after having the N3 for a few days there really isn't alot of difference between it and the X1ii. The sound isn't much different....the X1ii still lacks gapless but they said that will be implemented in the next fw update. I would like to see if the lag can be improved but even if it can't that's not really that big an issue. Bluetooth could be better but I don't use it much anyways. I definitely prefer navigation using the X1ii...the touch wheel works very well and the buttons are there too and they feel nice and solid..I prefer them over the capacitive buttons of the N3. I think I have a new appreciation for the X1ii...I was going to sell it but not now...it can coexist nicely with my N3.

 

[ASpencer]

  I definitely prefer navigation using the X1ii...the touch wheel works very well and the buttons are there too and they feel nice and solid..I prefer them over the capacitive buttons of the N3. I think I have a new appreciation for the X1ii...I was going to sell it but not now...it can coexist nicely with my N3.

 
The X1 II is like a very sleek car in need of a slight tune-up, i.e. gapless.  The design is really superb and the touch wheel designates this as an heir apparent to the iPod for most indiscriminate consumers and non-audiophiles.  I also like being able to use the buttons on my IEMs cord to control volume, play, pause and track selection.  Not having to take the player out of my pocket every time for this is a major boon.  While there’s been a litany of complaints about this DAP, the attributes shouldn’t be overlooked.  I’ll also not ever take gapless for granted again, getting a newfound appreciation for what it takes to contrive in a unit.

 

[bruce1967]

   
The X1 II is like a very sleek car in need of a slight tune-up, i.e. gapless.  The design is really superb and the touch wheel designates this as an heir apparent to the iPod for most indiscriminate consumers and non-audiophiles.  I also like being able to use the buttons on my IEMs cord to control volume, play, pause and track selection.  Not having to take the player out of my pocket every time for this is a major boon.  While there’s been a litany of complaints about this DAP, the attributes shouldn’t be overlooked.  I’ll also not ever take gapless for granted again, getting a newfound appreciation for what it takes to contrive in a unit.

There is definitely alot to like about the X1ii and once it gets gapless and hopefully a more responsive UI it will be the best DAP in this price bracket. I like the "sleek car in need of a tune-up" analogy...it sums up where the X1ii is at right now.

 

[OldRoadToad]

  I know we'd all love gapless playback and a more responsive UI, but the X1ii is totally functional for me. Yes, its BT is slow to toggle, but BT is just a bonus and something I rarely use. IMHO, BT isn't (yet) something that belongs in any discussion on top-quality audio anyway.
 
The fact is, the X1ii works and sounds very good for its tiny size. Its SQ is not far off that of the X7.
Just FYI, the specs of the Cayin N3 show a THD+N of 0.03%, which is an order of magnitude larger than that of the X1ii.
Watch this space. I predict some N3 purchasers are going to be pretty disappointed with its sound quality...

 
I think people just want what they were promised.
 
They want gapless. 
 
They want BT to work seamlessly. 
 
They want the UI to work, not work S L O W.
 
They want that which they thought they were purchasing, a DAP that delivered as advertised, not via a multitude of firmware updates over the course of months and still does not deliver.
 
Apparently a decoder is needed to cipher out that what they were promised for their money was to be beta testers.
 
As for the minimal cost of the device in question, that is a lot of money for some folk. 
 
ORT