[Martinstraka8282]

Has anyone figured out a way to register MediaMonkey pro?

Coming from an exclusive Ipod Classic that lasted me 10 years, I'm having to adjust to a new thing. I was never an aapple guy, but like the way it organized it and wasn't touch screen. I have everything organized and in folders by genre>Artist>Album>Tracks. I have about 40,000 songs total.

Most apps organize in a way that after selecting genre, you are met with albums or songs instead of artist folders, which makes it completely unfeasible to navigate.

I have only been able to find two apps that organize in this way. The Onkyo app and the Media Monkey app. They are very different in presentation and have their pros and cons, so I bounce back and forth.

If I had the pro version of Media Monkey, i would be able to make it the way I want and use it exclusively. You cant even organize the home ui without pro version.

On that note, if anyone is able to help with MM Pro activation or has another app to suggest that organizes in this fashion, please let me know.

I know that I can use folder view in most apps this way, but I love album art when choosing and have added it for all my music.

Thanks!

 

[Martinstraka8282]

Anyone else have bluetooth volume issues with the M9? Is this a known issue I'm ultimately not going to get around? Would I get louder output by going to the M11?

I have multiple bluetooth headsets and find I have to crank the volume up to max or close to on the M9 to make it loud enough at certain times. My samsung phone and my wife's iphone both dwarf the M9's volume level via bluetooth.

This is obviously affected by the loudness of my MP3's and FLAC files. Some are so low I won't listen to them. Some have to be maxed out to be tolerable or close to. A small selection need to be turned down slightly. I'd rather not get in to adjusting ReplayGain, but that's looking like my only option to live with it.

It's so close to the edge of being intolerable that I've been considering upgrading to the M11 or a different device. I have already had these urges and unsuccessfully tried to return my M9 a couple weeks after buying it to do so. All they offered was keep the M9 and $130 off the M11, lol.

Things I've tried are the "disable absolute volume", which did nothing it seems.

Multiple headsets. 3 total.

Volume adjustments maxed out on both.

Resetting and re-pairing headsets and M9.

I assume I'm out of options?

 

[bms44974]

Anyone else have bluetooth volume issues with the M9? Is this a known issue I'm ultimately not going to get around? Would I get louder output by going to the M11?

I have multiple bluetooth headsets and find I have to crank the volume up to max or close to on the M9 to make it loud enough at certain times. My samsung phone and my wife's iphone both dwarf the M9's volume level via bluetooth.

This is obviously affected by the loudness of my MP3's and FLAC files. Some are so low I won't listen to them. Some have to be maxed out to be tolerable or close to. A small selection need to be turned down slightly. I'd rather not get in to adjusting ReplayGain, but that's looking like my only option to live with it.

It's so close to the edge of being intolerable that I've been considering upgrading to the M11 or a different device. I have already had these urges and unsuccessfully tried to return my M9 a couple weeks after buying it to do so. All they offered was keep the M9 and $130 off the M11, lol.

Things I've tried are the "disable absolute volume", which did nothing it seems.

Multiple headsets. 3 total.

Volume adjustments maxed out on both.

Resetting and re-pairing headsets and M9.

I assume I'm out of options?

I had a similar issue with a few BT earphones. Then I figured out that the volume control on the earphone was working independently of the M9. I bumped the earphone volume to its max (while on a very low volume on M9) and then adjusted the volume on M9 to get the desired output volume. It may have to do with the implementation of the low-energy BT control frequency.

Cheers... Brian

 

[Martinstraka8282]

I had a similar issue with a few BT earphones. Then I figured out that the volume control on the earphone was working independently of the M9. I bumped the earphone volume to its max (while on a very low volume on M9) and then adjusted the volume on M9 to get the desired output volume. It may have to do with the implementation of the low-energy BT control frequency.

Cheers... Brian

Thanks Brian. That was one of the first things I came to realize. Unfortunately even cranked on both sources, a good amount of my library wont get to the volume I would like and for the stuff that does, both volume knobs are maxed. Very rarely would I turn the volume down at all.

I have read a bit about it and it does sound like an M9 somewhat documented issue and sounds like it affects the M11 as well.

For some users, Im sure it is tolerable and a non issue. It is also affected by headphones to a certain extent, but finding it too low on 3 separate sets tells me thats not the issue here. Especially considering they are all much louder when connected to various other devices. Seems like the BT volume output on the M9 is just flat out too low.

Wired is a non issue. They all get loud enough no problem, including if I plug in the bluetooth headsets. Even my HD650's are driven much louder by the 3.5mm port with headroom to go louder.

Only solution Ive found is to add replaygain tags bumping everything up to 95db, but that's a terrible last resort solution that will rear its ugly head in other ways.

 

[leafmulch]

Not discounting your issue, but I have Sennheiser 4.50BT and they're plenty loud over bluetooth - tried both amazon music and local files via fiio app. Must be a headset specific thing I guess. I hope you find an adequate solution all the same.

 

[Martinstraka8282]

Not discounting your issue, but I have Sennheiser 4.50BT and they're plenty loud over bluetooth - tried both amazon music and local files via fiio app. Must be a headset specific thing I guess. I hope you find an adequate solution all the same.

Could very well be, I wouldnt discount that yet, but Im out of headsets to try without buying new ones. Seems strange with 3 separate headsets, but not impossible that all 3 could have low volume issues. The other strange part is that all 3 of these headsets can be significantly louder when connected to my phone, my wifes phone, or my computer. Wired in they also go much louder than on BT with the M9.

It also is a bit subjective I suppose. Ive read a bit last night and today and there's a fair amount of scattered comments around the net complaining about the M9 and M11's bluetooth volume output compared to their other devices asking fiio to try to firmware fix it, while many come in and comment that its plenty loud for them.

My music that participated in the modern loudness wars at db levels of 95 or above is all fine for the most part. I can hover between 110 and 120 on M9's volume typically and get what I want, while the headphone volumes are maxed. For the older stuff with db levels in the 80's, it just cannot get close to where I want it, flat out. Anything between 90-95 is touch and go and its typically enjoyable but not always able to reach levels I like.

I tried a bit of a blind test with my wife and while she said it seems "loud enough" for her to live with in a quiet setting of our home, she was surprised it was maxed out with no head room and thought it could be an issue at times.

Either way, its not like Im getting a firmware fix at this point, so Im mostly trying to find out if an M11 upgrade will fix it or if its the same and need a different brand. Sounds like M11 is the same.

 

[leafmulch]

You have the latest firmware installed? Or have you tried forcing different codecs, is that even possible? Consider using wired balance out, as the M9 sounds really nice paired with a nice pair of cans.

Over Bluetooth there's little benefit, as you're gonna get same SQ from a phone I'd imagine.

I've ordered the hiby r5, as I'm fed up with Amazon HD running poorly, as it's an expensive sub and I need ultra HD files to play without the M9 giving up halfway through a track.

 

[Martinstraka8282]

You have the latest firmware installed? Or have you tried forcing different codecs, is that even possible? Consider using wired balance out, as the M9 sounds really nice paired with a nice pair of cans.

Over Bluetooth there's little benefit, as you're gonna get same SQ from a phone I'd imagine.

I've ordered the hiby r5, as I'm fed up with Amazon HD running poorly, as it's an expensive sub and I need ultra HD files to play without the M9 giving up halfway through a track.

I do have the latest firmware installed. I've tried 3 different apps as well. i just noticed the Onkyo app I use primarily has a preamp setting, so that could be used to in a similar fashion as Replaygain tags, but I do like to bounce back and forth between Onkyo and Media Monkey. Again though, not ideal to preamp. I've tried MP3 and FLAC so far. They both seem to perform similarly. Some are loud enough, some aren't. I can tell you that if I were to say track replay gain my collection at the reference 89db, none of my music would play loud enough on bluetooth headphones.

Agreed on the wired balanced out, I have a set for my HD650's I use sometimes. It drives those decently with plenty of headroom. The 3.5 can drive them no problem as well.

SQ is definitely lowered on blue tooth and do prefer wired. For now, I've resorted to using plex on my cell phone for bluetooth headphone listening at volumes I like and treating the M9 as wired only, but then that's not why I bought the M9 and feel buyers remorse.

Your reasoning for upgrading seems to be a well documented, although not impacting 100% every single user issue as far as I can tell? That's gotta be frustrating and I can see why you'd move on. It's tough when certain features are advertised to sell a product and you have to use it to find out it is insufficient, only to be unable to return an opened product.

I tried to return my M9 to Electronicsforless.ca but had it for 3 weeks and they wouldn't accept it as it was out of their 14 days. Shoulda ordered off Amazon...

 

[Sonic Defender]

I may be missing something here, but it is the Bluetooth headphone that determines the playback volume as the amplification takes place there. I do not know how the digital output of Bluetooth coming from the M9 could be decreased in amplitude in such a way that what the receiving chip and amplifier has less to work with/amplify. I am interested to know what is going on as my understanding of the technical relationship between Bluetooth transmitter and receiver is far from advanced.

 

[Martinstraka8282]

I may be missing something here, but it is the Bluetooth headphone that determines the playback volume as the amplification takes place there. I do not know how the digital output of Bluetooth coming from the M9 could be decreased in amplitude in such a way that what the receiving chip and amplifier has less to work with/amplify. I am interested to know what is going on as my understanding of the technical relationship between Bluetooth transmitter and receiver is far from advanced.

That certainly adds an interesting possibility that I thought I was eliminating by adding other devices to the mix that seemingly outperformed, but I don't have the technical knowledge to really weigh in.

I have been reading a lot of claims of various devices being too low in volume on the same headphones that go louder on their other devices, but the discussions Ive found never seem to go anywhere beyond the complaints.

 

[Sonic Defender]

That certainly adds an interesting possibility that I thought I was eliminating by adding other devices to the mix that seemingly outperformed, but I don't have the technical knowledge to really weigh in.

I have been reading a lot of claims of various devices being too low in volume on the same headphones that go louder on their other devices, but the discussions Ive found never seem to go anywhere beyond the complaints.

Yes, I have come across similar speculation before and I agree, there is never any technical rationale/proof offered as to why this should be happening. As I was proposing, as far as I know the digital signal leaves the M9 and it is up to the receiving device to unpack the Bluetooth encoded transmission and amplify it. Where in that process there is even an opportunity for the M9 to somehow create a Bluetooth encoded digital stream that will not be complete so that playback volume is somehow unable to reach full output on the playback device? Perhaps it is possible that the Bluetooth encoded information is encoded with some kind of normalization information, but I still have no clue if this is even possible or why it would be done. Too bad we don't have an actual Bluetooth architecture expert who could weigh in and explain why this notion was or wasn't possible. Intriguing for sure.

 

[leafmulch]

I mentioned codecs earlier and I imagine they'd have a greater effect on volume than the transmission protocol. The codec is audio related whereas Bluetooth is not. Try forcing different codecs in the settings. https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/91559.html

 

[Sonic Defender]

I mentioned codecs earlier and I imagine they'd have a greater effect on volume than the transmission protocol. The codec is audio related whereas Bluetooth is not. Try forcing different codecs in the settings. https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/91559.html

Imagined? That is what we are talking about, everyone speculates as opposed to knowing if this is even possible. Again, why would a Codec cause a reduction in volume on the playback device? I'm not saying I know this isn't the case, but some technical reasons being offered to explain this notion would be helpful.

 

[Martinstraka8282]

Thanks for the responses to my ramblings. I did a bit more testing and messing around to get to the bottom of all this and have come to some conclusions and workarounds and will probably carry on and just not cut the cord as much as planned. In my testing, I couldn't help but feel like the quality on wired dwarfed my wireless sets significantly. I don't know what's going on with the bluetooth volume, but I do feel like they have the desired bit of extra oomph playing the same files through plex to my samsung phone, but the "problem" files are still an issue there too. I tried swapping codec's and found volume ceiling wasn't affected. The capabilities vary on the headsets, so I can't try them all unfortunately.

I have the following headsets and amp to use for testing.
-Senn HD650
-1More Triple Driver IEM
-JDS Labs C421 Headphone amp used for HD 650's
-Senn PXC 550 Wireless BT 4.2
-1More Stylish Wirelss BT 5.0 Earbuds
-My wife's Tribit Wireless BT

Bluetooth volume is definitely lower across the board compared to wired on the M9, and significantly so. All 3 headsets need to be near maxed out at 110-120. Tribit is loudest but also lowest quality of the 3, 1More Stylish Earbuds are next and PXC 550's the lowest. I've since read a lot of complaints of the PXC 550's being too low in volume, so that seems to be compounding the issue here. I still feel that on all 3, there is a major lack of headroom that seems unacceptable to me.

I let my PXC's battery die, which allows you to wire in passively. Amazingly and annoyingly, the only way to do this is to kill the battery, because the "off" switch is turning one of the earphones. They got much much louder and sound better wired in passively, but before the battery died were no louder than wireless via BT. If I can't live with the volume ceiling on this set in particular, I will sell them or abandon bluetooth capability, let the battery die and use them as a wired set only.

My 1More wired IEM's are loud. I assume they are very easy to drive. I have to have the volume in the 60's or 70's on high gain, with max on trouble files would be low 80's. A bit higher on low gain, but not much for these. Would blow my ears out if I had it near the levels I need on bluetooth headsets.

My Senn HD650's definitely need more to drive, but that's expected. I'm hovering around 90-105 without the amp in the chain. With the amp, I can use that to drive them beyond what I need. I was also able to easily drive them via 2.5mm, but I typically leave my 3.5mm cable in my 650's because that's the only connection on my amp.

The DB level on files is huge here. On plenty of stuff in the 95-101 db range, I can be at 110-120 on the M9 and be happy. The mid to lower stuff is the problem. Files in the 91-94 db range are okay and only seem to lack a little bit of oomph on the bluetooth headsets. The stuff in the 83-90 range though, it's intolerable to me and I just wouldn't listen to it on bluetooth set because of it.

I have solved this a little bit between the two apps I use on the M9 and having replaygain tags saved to all my MP3's. I do like bouncing between two apps to keep things fresh and they each have their small quirks.

I have the Onkyo premium apk app that has Replaygain functionality and preamp settings, so I can crank the preamp as a compromise. By only adding RG tags and not actually permanently altering the files db levels (which I wanted no part of, obviously), it then gives me the option of turning off the preamp in Onkyo or launching the MediaMonkey app that doesn't read Replaygain tags at all. Then, when I want to listen to the files on my wired sets, I can still choose to listen to them in their "purer" form without RG being added.

With BT being a "lowered" experience from wired sets ime anyways, at least between the ones I own, I'm not too concerned about some mostly inaudible clipping on files from RG preamp being raised. These headsets are for out and about and convenience mostly.

I have a lot of FLAC files as well, but anything I have in FLAC, I have in 320 Mp3 as well, so with bluetooth experience being what it is, I'm again not too concerned and will leave the FLAC listening for the wired sets.


In the end though, I wish I had a better understanding of the issue with bluetooth volume here. In the last few days, I have read a ton of people complaining about low volume on their bluetooth headsets with no answers beyond the commonly circulated ones. that didn't help me. It doesn't seem to be my ears as my wife concurs. I could just have 3 generally low volume sets in the end and will surely test another when I have a chance. If we can control volume on the M9 separately from my headset though, why couldn't they just add a couple levels on the volume meter? I realize that's a very primitive way of putting it.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Again, the M9 has nothing to do with playback volume with Bluetooth, it simply sends a signal to the receiving chip where all the decoding and amplification is done. I am not sure why people think the M9 is doing anything to the signal to change playback volume. You can't compare the wired playback to Bluetooth, that seems problematic as in reality you might as well be comparing two different headphones. The M9 acts as a signal transmitter, that is it. The playback device is responsible for the amplification.