[laleeee]

??? Not sure what you are asking. I have both DAPs and dongles and I don't think that one form factor is superior over the other with respect to sound quality.

A 100$ dongle has the same soundstage, separation and detail retrieval like a 700$ dap ?

 

[jsmiller58]

technically well designed DACs and amplifiers should be ‘audibly transparent’

I agree if the designs goal is audio transparency, but it might not be. The concept of house sound might play a big role in the design decisions.

 

[jsmiller58]

Can you define”very different” and “not close at all”.

Genuine question I would like to understand what others hear/perceive.

In my mind “not close at all” simply makes no sense, to me that is describing a bigger difference than swapping out IEM or headphones not just the DAC/amp and I very much can tell even similar IEM apart.

To me, in comparing the KA17 to the Kensei (or RU7 which sounds to me somewhat similar), the Kensei mids are warmer and the bass is emphasized, while the KA17 is less colored without the warmth of the mids and extra bass emphasis, making it to me more transparent sounding. I do prefer the fuller sound that I hear from the Kensei and RU7.

Of course all of this could be in my head! But I sort of doubt that explanation as I don't think I had any preconceived ideas going into the comparison. But, I do leave it out there that this could be placebo effect...

 

[rlw6534]

A 100$ dongle has the same soundstage, separation and detail retrieval like a 700$ dap ?

That's not what I said at all. If price is how you measure quality, that's fine. But it makes for an expensive hobby (which I am absolutely guilty of myself). I'm sure my Mojo 2 / Poly sounds better than my FiiO FC3... ugh... I think.... no maybe M11 Plus ESS.... damn... L&P W4 maybe... SP1000M?

The point being that they sound more alike than different and the choice of IEM is an order of magnitude more significant. Maybe if I used the same IEM for all of my listening, I would notice, but I don't...

 

[laleeee]

by the way in a weak moment of mine I ordered the m23 from hifigo yesterday, so I hope to experience in a week or two whether there is a difference between my dongles and a midrange dap

 

[jsmiller58]

by the way in a weak moment of mine I ordered the m23 from hifigo yesterday, so I hope to experience in a week or two whether there is a difference between my dongles and a midrange dap

Considering all of the design implementation choices in various dongles and DAPs I would expect that there is a difference. Of course as humans we bring our own expectations into play as well, which will affect the results. Ultimately I hope you enjoy the M23!

P.S. A DAC chip does precisely one thing… convert ones and zeroes into analog sound. It’s not my area of knowledge, but my guess is the vast majority of these chips do as well as others in this basic function. But where the differences are likely is in the implementation of the circuits that use those DACs, and in the different filters implemented. Beyond the DAC circuitry there is the amp which can color the sound further. Given all the variables and design decisions the surprise would be if everything did sound the same. I remember a few years ago where folks here on Head-Fi were discussing that the Lotoo S1 had a warmer sound as a consequence of a design decision by Lotoo where they intentionally rolled off the higher frequencies. Design decisions will matter.

 

[rlw6534]

by the way in a weak moment of mine I ordered the m23 from hifigo yesterday, so I hope to experience in a week or two whether there is a difference between my dongles and a midrange dap

One good thing about recent FiiO DAPS is that they seem to work with less issues than other brands, especially with streaming services. I'm trying to resist the M23 myself on the basis that it is too similar to my M11 Plus...

 

[Lifter59]

by the way in a weak moment of mine I ordered the m23 from hifigo yesterday, so I hope to experience in a week or two whether there is a difference between my dongles and a midrange dap

In this hobby, we all share at least one thing in common - weak moments. I personally have a "shelf of shame" in my office littered with the less than wonderful results of those weak moments - thankfully less cluttered due to Amazon's return policy

 

[laleeee]

In this hobby, we all share at least one thing in common - weak moments. I personally have a "shelf of shame" in my office littered with the less than wonderful results of those weak moments - thankfully less cluttered due to Amazon's return policy

LoL

 

[Ichos]

Hey guys. Have you tried to update the M23? I am receiving error message both in OTA and local upgrade.

 

[laleeee]

Hey guys. Have you tried to update the M23? I am receiving error message both in OTA and local upgrade.

Short impression please

 

[Ichos]

Short impression please

What impressions?

 

[BS5711]

To me, in comparing the KA17 to the Kensei (or RU7 which sounds to me somewhat similar), the Kensei mids are warmer and the bass is emphasized, while the KA17 is less colored without the warmth of the mids and extra bass emphasis, making it to me more transparent sounding. I do prefer the fuller sound that I hear from the Kensei and RU7.

Of course all of this could be in my head! But I sort of doubt that explanation as I don't think I had any preconceived ideas going into the comparison. But, I do leave it out there that this could be placebo effect...

Thank you for the response, appreciated.

Now the below isn’t an argument with what you said in any way, it is just where I am in my thinking which I want to share:

You describe the sound of two devices as “very different” and “not close at all”. My interpretation of that description is literally what the words mean, that is there is a very obvious difference that is beyond doubt. However, you then infer that the difference is at a level such that it could actually just be imagined.

To me those aren’t descriptions of the same thing at all and I am still left wondering what others hear apparently with ease that I am missing. If the sounds are very different in my mind you would very easily be able to compare across several occasions with different music and different IEM or headphones and completely dispel any notion of expectation bias but you said that wasn’t so. Now I get that you might have dropped the in your head comment in there just for complete clarity and not because you genuinely think it is a possibility but it does infer that the level of difference is less than completely and utterly obvious beyond any shadow of a doubt.

The problem for me is that I know that we can’t remove ourselves from the possibility of faulty perception despite that we don’t think we expect to hear anything. The simple fact that you believe devices are likely to sound different and are listening to them to compare and see if they sound different and have background knowledge of others having described the sound in reviews for example and have the knowledge that the device uses a different design approach could create a situation where your perception of sound is not actually in line with the measurable sound created.

So I am still left wondering but I do appreciate the conversation and am happy to leave it there since this is a thread for a specific device.

Thanks

 

[laleeee]

What impressions?

Sound

 

[Ichos]

Sound

I have only a couple of brief listening sessions.
Well, guess what, someone took the FiiO K9 AKM and shrunk it to fit in a DAP body