[FiiO M11 Plus LTD/M11 Plus] THXAAA-78,Android 10, 2.5/3.5/4.4 Powerful Output/4.4 LO output, Dual AK4497/ES9068AS DAC chips, 4GB RAM,64G Flash
Jan 21, 2022 at 8:17 PM Post #1,561 of 2,984
If anyone is looking into and interested in the official upgraded leather case from FiiO, I have one listed in the Classifieds. Brand new and ready to ship out much faster than it would normally come (from China).

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/fiio-sk-m11plus-leather-case-for-m11-plus-ltd-new-sealed.17896/
‘get these cases’!

day one purchase; never looked back; recommend others to do the same.
my local (FiiO) audio distributor confirmed with previous FiiO M11 models, the cases dried up from the market place well before the hardware units ever did....

yes I’d agree playback control buttons ‘tactility’ could be improved, but otherwise, this case looks good, feels great, and WILL extend hardware life (ie battery) due to vastly improved heat transfer FROM the ’warm’ area of the player.

the tactile improvement and nicer looks is ‘icing on the cake’
13F6EDCF-0BE3-4DA8-BE6C-0AAD8B166DD4.jpeg

71832068-7000-490B-B0C0-3A40668DF145.jpeg

Fuji X-T1 with 90mm lens, shooting at f2 (camera was a swap with a gumtree user who wanted my Sony A7mk2; lens bought from pet photographer who volunteered time taking photos of abandoned animals (at pound) who needed rehoming)
Cat is third generation model from a street cat I befriended
Pose is due to weather being ‘warm’ in the Southern Hemisphere
Cat putting up with me using them for ‘product shots’: priceless!

(cats sell products better than spec sheets do)
 
Last edited:
Jan 22, 2022 at 9:26 PM Post #1,563 of 2,984
Hello im new to his thread. I never owned DAP before and i see this m11 ltd price is reasonable for me. I am used to streaming music is this DAP do that job well? Also how is the sound is it musical or technical? Thank you for anyone who is willing to share.
 
Jan 22, 2022 at 10:20 PM Post #1,564 of 2,984
Hello im new to his thread. I never owned DAP before and i see this m11 ltd price is reasonable for me. I am used to streaming music is this DAP do that job well? Also how is the sound is it musical or technical? Thank you for anyone who is willing to share.
I would argue it is BOTH musical and technically accomplished, as a playback source.

The price point (tier) below the M11+ (and previous ‘less accomplished’ parts) is enough to get playback right and ‘sound good’ (at a ‘massmarket‘ level, which is ‘consumer-fi‘ generally).
Those units can sound BETTER to many as an aspect of their ‘rawness’ can be more engaging. Bass bloat may come across as more taut on some systems etc; this is a large part of why humans fail ‘double blind testing’/‘not knowing if the compressed or the uncompressed track is better’ etc - if we do not have a point of reference to ‘(truly) good sound’ then how do we know which is the more accurate or ‘better’.

For me ‘musical‘ requires technical excellence.
As an example the dual femto second clocks and power isolation (and shieldings) featured in the M11+ is a game changer (perhaps only mattering due to the multiple generations of refinement to the PCB board layout and FiiO engineers having ‘many years’ to cut their teeth towards product excellence.

I cannot think of a better piece of kit that can influence a whole system. (for the better)
I could talk about something like an iFi Gryphon, but it is the DAC/amp side of the coin, and whilst it may be good at both those functions, the sound quality it offers would benefit from a better source device. (I say this full well knowing how much better an iFi Diablo DAC/amp became when using the FiiO M11+ as a transport, even above esoteric DAPs by Sony etc that used incredible materials and build design to avoid ‘noise’ etc (even creating a bump around the headphone socket as a ‘full sized jack plug’ didn’t create impedance issues etc).

Quite simply, the FiiO M11+ as a transport (ie feeding high end ancillary kit, such as ‘better DACs and AMPs’), scales so well to ‘very high price point‘ sound systems, that I consider it the ‘essential basis’ (on a budget) to a truly high end sound system. (it would seem the majority do not acknowledge how vital a great transport is to ‘feeding their DACs’, and would rather believe in fairy tales that digital is simply a binary state of zeros and ones and it is therefor perfect, by the simple nature of being digital, and therefor transports DO NOT MATTER)(nothing could be further from the truth!!).
The M11+ equalled (or trumps) my Questyle QP1R DAP (as a transport). The Questyle DAP is of a tier of kit ‘good enough’ to flog mass market midrange CD transports etc..
and just about any CD player will flog a multipurpose disc spinner, such as a DVD player, when given the task of redbook audio CD reading.... (the ratio is more akin to a CD player @ 1/3rd the cost of a bluray player will seriously flog it..)
Given most people no longer buy multithousand dollar blurray players, less people buy several thousand dollar CD players, and fewer people still buy mid range CD transports (no DAC inside), the M11+ is quite likely the best thing that will output digital sound that many a consumer will ever SEE.

It is the sort of product you take around to your fathers house and school him how a budget pocketable box can run rings around megabuck ‘antiquated’ less than flagship pieces of kit.
It would hold itself well against some flagship transports from yesteryear, this statement being dependant on ‘the rest of the rig’ (those north of $100k setups could pull apart the M11+ vs their ‘reference transports’; not really relevant to the question asked...

@Pelilin - yes- even when parsing Apple music (that seems to want to run atrociously on android, and ‘not really make HiRes accesible’ (like it was a response to market they needed to stymy losing customers of apple music en masse to other hi res services...); the output, just considering the M11+ as a transport (which is likely the ultimate function it will perform, a few years from now as we upgrade to 48bit and 1536khz etc (???)(please NO!!)) files and have ‘future DAC’ sound- the M11+ will not become redundant. (unless streaming is the sole use, and some brave company doesn’t want to be usable by the masses still using android 10 devices)(apple?)..
The clock chips are a large part of this.. a good transport will make a DAC sound better (if it has any range to scale upwards in quality), and the DAC aspect of the M11+ isn’t poor, by any means (for a portable player) Home DAC chips can rip through wall AC power, but mobile devices do not have this luxury (I have a Sony PHA3 that gets ‘very hot’ and lasts for 5 hours or less, and does use a ‘home DAC chip’). In the present market, many home DACs are using ‘mobile parts’ and so, having the M11+ as a transport (good for decades), a DAC (great for portable use for many years), and as an amp (the THX amps are great for portable use, but ultimately hold M11+ back from holding up well against home kit AND being realised as the exceptional transport and great portable DAC that the unit is...

I’d buy one in a heartbeat, and never let go of it. (the market is moving towards cheaper and cheaper build quality and parts) bang for buck is exceptional value.. there is no ‘buyers remorse’.
For a large chunk more money you could get another DAP with a power output that is more organic to large drivered ‘over ear’ headphones.. but unless ‘side by side’ I generally wouldn’t notice. (eg swapping to a burson conductor V2, (an exceptional headphone amp) shows that the THX amps inside the M11+ are holding back its perceived quality.. the Sony PHA3 amp (which I feel outclasses the iFi Diablo, as an amp(not a DAC)) also raises the quality experienced from the M11+ unit (into large drivered headphones).

The fact that I am willing to run my over ear Ultrasones, in somewhat ‘critical listening‘ scenarios straight from the M11+, and be ‘happy enough’ is a tell tale sign of it being ‘good enough’.

Also- when feeding the quality two channel rig at home, I have happily put the M11+, using the 4.4mm (line) output, in place instead of the Diablo (typically when needing to charge the M11+ using the one USB jack it has), and I can enjoy that sound for days, even though their is a stack of ‘home kit’ DACs that I could simply hit a button and ‘switch to.

The DAC section may eventually feel outdated (if only by future spec sheets built to esoteric/arcane numbers), and the amps can easily be bested (*typically by devices that cost more than the M11+).. so ultimately this is A REFERENCE GRADE TRANSPORT.
In the meantime it is a also a brilliant DAC (until that future DAC tells us we need to upgrade, if only for some future format compatibility), which I would argue some nice ladder DACs, again ‘higher priced that the M11+ total $ outlay‘ can easily beat, but this is dependant to the level of ear training, recording genre(/track complexity), and ultimately ‘whether you have much higher tiered audio kit in a home setup to reveal the differences..

I know many would think that their phone or PC is a great transport.
As someone who notices the quality of a dolby digital (not Dolby true HD) signal feed being vastly different from varying devices, the quality of transporting zeros and ones accurately is ‘wroth getting right’. (not just for academic reasons)- in fact I have gone to task with internet reviewers who pick on nice quality DACs (saying they sound identical to ‘entry level DACs’), due to them not really having the reference kit to reveal the differences.
This makes me an A*#hole to the ‘masses’ (who want to believe their phone is equal to $10k CD transports when passing zeros and ones accurately), but I am just sharing an opinion.
I have invested many many years of my life to learn some of these subtleties...

If I was sixteen and ‘starting over’ (with my own cash) to build a hifi rig; the M11+ would be a dream come true that would just keep giving, beyond belief, for many years.
It would be one of those purchases that I look back on six years down the road, going “why does this new part get trounced by the older tech”, and I would certainly enjoy educating others (or at least letting them test for ‘themselves’) what about their music changes, from their own home DAC, simply for changing the source that feeds them..

Just be ready to have people say stuff like ‘but digital is supposed to be ‘zeros and ones’, so how come this is happening?’

Instead of this all being subjective opinion; my subwoofer needed to be down tuned (lowered volume), simply due to the more accurate feed that the M11+ (as a transport) feeds: the improvement in accuracy of ‘more zeros and ones’ being correct made the bass frequencies so much more prominent. (This was shown on my Sound Pressure Level meter, a scientific tool, beyond observation bias)

TL: DR it is a great buy, buy with confidence!
 
Jan 23, 2022 at 1:34 AM Post #1,565 of 2,984
I would argue it is BOTH musical and technically accomplished, as a playback source.

The price point (tier) below the M11+ (and previous ‘less accomplished’ parts) is enough to get playback right and ‘sound good’ (at a ‘massmarket‘ level, which is ‘consumer-fi‘ generally).
Those units can sound BETTER to many as an aspect of their ‘rawness’ can be more engaging. Bass bloat may come across as more taut on some systems etc; this is a large part of why humans fail ‘double blind testing’/‘not knowing if the compressed or the uncompressed track is better’ etc - if we do not have a point of reference to ‘(truly) good sound’ then how do we know which is the more accurate or ‘better’.

For me ‘musical‘ requires technical excellence.
As an example the dual femto second clocks and power isolation (and shieldings) featured in the M11+ is a game changer (perhaps only mattering due to the multiple generations of refinement to the PCB board layout and FiiO engineers having ‘many years’ to cut their teeth towards product excellence.

I cannot think of a better piece of kit that can influence a whole system. (for the better)
I could talk about something like an iFi Gryphon, but it is the DAC/amp side of the coin, and whilst it may be good at both those functions, the sound quality it offers would benefit from a better source device. (I say this full well knowing how much better an iFi Diablo DAC/amp became when using the FiiO M11+ as a transport, even above esoteric DAPs by Sony etc that used incredible materials and build design to avoid ‘noise’ etc (even creating a bump around the headphone socket as a ‘full sized jack plug’ didn’t create impedance issues etc).

Quite simply, the FiiO M11+ as a transport (ie feeding high end ancillary kit, such as ‘better DACs and AMPs’), scales so well to ‘very high price point‘ sound systems, that I consider it the ‘essential basis’ (on a budget) to a truly high end sound system. (it would seem the majority do not acknowledge how vital a great transport is to ‘feeding their DACs’, and would rather believe in fairy tales that digital is simply a binary state of zeros and ones and it is therefor perfect, by the simple nature of being digital, and therefor transports DO NOT MATTER)(nothing could be further from the truth!!).
The M11+ equalled (or trumps) my Questyle QP1R DAP (as a transport). The Questyle DAP is of a tier of kit ‘good enough’ to flog mass market midrange CD transports etc..
and just about any CD player will flog a multipurpose disc spinner, such as a DVD player, when given the task of redbook audio CD reading.... (the ratio is more akin to a CD player @ 1/3rd the cost of a bluray player will seriously flog it..)
Given most people no longer buy multithousand dollar blurray players, less people buy several thousand dollar CD players, and fewer people still buy mid range CD transports (no DAC inside), the M11+ is quite likely the best thing that will output digital sound that many a consumer will ever SEE.

It is the sort of product you take around to your fathers house and school him how a budget pocketable box can run rings around megabuck ‘antiquated’ less than flagship pieces of kit.
It would hold itself well against some flagship transports from yesteryear, this statement being dependant on ‘the rest of the rig’ (those north of $100k setups could pull apart the M11+ vs their ‘reference transports’; not really relevant to the question asked...

@Pelilin - yes- even when parsing Apple music (that seems to want to run atrociously on android, and ‘not really make HiRes accesible’ (like it was a response to market they needed to stymy losing customers of apple music en masse to other hi res services...); the output, just considering the M11+ as a transport (which is likely the ultimate function it will perform, a few years from now as we upgrade to 48bit and 1536khz etc (???)(please NO!!)) files and have ‘future DAC’ sound- the M11+ will not become redundant. (unless streaming is the sole use, and some brave company doesn’t want to be usable by the masses still using android 10 devices)(apple?)..
The clock chips are a large part of this.. a good transport will make a DAC sound better (if it has any range to scale upwards in quality), and the DAC aspect of the M11+ isn’t poor, by any means (for a portable player) Home DAC chips can rip through wall AC power, but mobile devices do not have this luxury (I have a Sony PHA3 that gets ‘very hot’ and lasts for 5 hours or less, and does use a ‘home DAC chip’). In the present market, many home DACs are using ‘mobile parts’ and so, having the M11+ as a transport (good for decades), a DAC (great for portable use for many years), and as an amp (the THX amps are great for portable use, but ultimately hold M11+ back from holding up well against home kit AND being realised as the exceptional transport and great portable DAC that the unit is...

I’d buy one in a heartbeat, and never let go of it. (the market is moving towards cheaper and cheaper build quality and parts) bang for buck is exceptional value.. there is no ‘buyers remorse’.
For a large chunk more money you could get another DAP with a power output that is more organic to large drivered ‘over ear’ headphones.. but unless ‘side by side’ I generally wouldn’t notice. (eg swapping to a burson conductor V2, (an exceptional headphone amp) shows that the THX amps inside the M11+ are holding back its perceived quality.. the Sony PHA3 amp (which I feel outclasses the iFi Diablo, as an amp(not a DAC)) also raises the quality experienced from the M11+ unit (into large drivered headphones).

The fact that I am willing to run my over ear Ultrasones, in somewhat ‘critical listening‘ scenarios straight from the M11+, and be ‘happy enough’ is a tell tale sign of it being ‘good enough’.

Also- when feeding the quality two channel rig at home, I have happily put the M11+, using the 4.4mm (line) output, in place instead of the Diablo (typically when needing to charge the M11+ using the one USB jack it has), and I can enjoy that sound for days, even though their is a stack of ‘home kit’ DACs that I could simply hit a button and ‘switch to.

The DAC section may eventually feel outdated (if only by future spec sheets built to esoteric/arcane numbers), and the amps can easily be bested (*typically by devices that cost more than the M11+).. so ultimately this is A REFERENCE GRADE TRANSPORT.
In the meantime it is a also a brilliant DAC (until that future DAC tells us we need to upgrade, if only for some future format compatibility), which I would argue some nice ladder DACs, again ‘higher priced that the M11+ total $ outlay‘ can easily beat, but this is dependant to the level of ear training, recording genre(/track complexity), and ultimately ‘whether you have much higher tiered audio kit in a home setup to reveal the differences..

I know many would think that their phone or PC is a great transport.
As someone who notices the quality of a dolby digital (not Dolby true HD) signal feed being vastly different from varying devices, the quality of transporting zeros and ones accurately is ‘wroth getting right’. (not just for academic reasons)- in fact I have gone to task with internet reviewers who pick on nice quality DACs (saying they sound identical to ‘entry level DACs’), due to them not really having the reference kit to reveal the differences.
This makes me an A*#hole to the ‘masses’ (who want to believe their phone is equal to $10k CD transports when passing zeros and ones accurately), but I am just sharing an opinion.
I have invested many many years of my life to learn some of these subtleties...

If I was sixteen and ‘starting over’ (with my own cash) to build a hifi rig; the M11+ would be a dream come true that would just keep giving, beyond belief, for many years.
It would be one of those purchases that I look back on six years down the road, going “why does this new part get trounced by the older tech”, and I would certainly enjoy educating others (or at least letting them test for ‘themselves’) what about their music changes, from their own home DAC, simply for changing the source that feeds them..

Just be ready to have people say stuff like ‘but digital is supposed to be ‘zeros and ones’, so how come this is happening?’

Instead of this all being subjective opinion; my subwoofer needed to be down tuned (lowered volume), simply due to the more accurate feed that the M11+ (as a transport) feeds: the improvement in accuracy of ‘more zeros and ones’ being correct made the bass frequencies so much more prominent. (This was shown on my Sound Pressure Level meter, a scientific tool, beyond observation bias)

TL: DR it is a great buy, buy with confidence!
Thank you kind sir. I will read carefully im new to this hobby many term here i have hard time understanding. Does anyone have the LTD one? Im interested with the one with AKM chip compared to the ESS one. which is better here hahaha. LTD is more expensive in my city so i wonder should i go with AKM or ESS which is cheaper.
 
Last edited:
Jan 23, 2022 at 3:06 AM Post #1,566 of 2,984
To me both M11+ are ‘much the same’. (the critical components are 99.9% same build/design, from software to mainboard and everything in between)

Some would argue the sound quality differences between the DAC chips used... regarding this, if you were better versed with all things ‘head-fi’ (we all have blind spots, so NONE of us know everything), then I would champion some reviews of a RME DAC where there has been an ‘A’, ‘B’, and ‘C’ variant, all using different DAC chip, and they changed up an AKM DAC chip (like found in the LTD version of the M11+), to a Sabre DAC chip (like found in the replacement M11+ model). The consensus typically being that ALL VERSIONS of that DAC are GREAT, and achieve the same performance. (in the software that they run, there might be a different filter, or two, between the products..)(basically EXACTLY THE SAME product, hence nothing to differentiate the parts beyond a letter on the serial number!)

Due to a shortage of chips, both companies, (and many others, no doubt), have had to make changes to their products.
FiiO had to put some effort in to make this happen, but we can see that the most significant other change that has been identified was that the OpAmps used, were reselected, no doubt to better match the Sabre chip (likely maintaining the ‘sound profile’)

Many users love the specification sheet superiority of the Sabre DACs (a few numbers, already measuring generally well past the extinction point of human hearing or reciprocal qualities in other parts of a hifi chain, are a percent (or couple of percent) ‘better’, but this is generally academic.
Some are of a school that DAC chips impart a sound quality (there is some merit to this, but the truth is the DAC CIRCUIT (including the associated electronics/board layout/and software that controls them) tailors sound generally, and in this regard, both M11+ units are FiiO optimised and ‘well evolved’... (and perform the same)

I would suggest that the Carbon Fibre material replacement on the volume slider is a product evolution that is warranted. If the price were the same between the two, this could be an ‘easy decider’ for many.
Food for thunk, but a few years ago many pundits really wanted every DAC chip (in their devices) to be a Sabre DAC chip due to them having ‘slightly better’ Spec sheet measurements; so I ask how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot and the Sabre DAC chip was the ‘limited one’; would you want it more then?
(grass is always greener on the other side of the fence/ we want what we cannot have).

Quite simply -you probably want full warranty (requires ‘buying new’).
If you had a second hand bargain to be able to get the original release ‘Ltd’ version, then the savings could be spent on headphones (or media); that would be a ‘no brainer’ to me, as a couple of hundred ‘more’ budget towards your headphone purchase will likely net you sound changes that are obvious, vs ‘semantics’ of arguing between potential sound difference between the players.

I would encourage to buy the part that makes you happiest- whether that is buying from your local hifi shop and being able to give your coin to a business that you have visited a few times and built a relationship with- that generates ‘happy brain chemicals’; much better than being fearful of missing out on a ‘one off purchase’, or worse, being fleeced by an online scammer who sees an opportunity due to the nature of a ’limited edition item’ being sought after. (It was only ‘limited edition due to knowing that the number of units would be finite’)(not sure how many flagship or ‘upper tier’ DAPs typical hifi companies sell ’per annum’... 8000 odd (including the Stainless Steel variants) seems like a small number for a global market, but DAPs are niche as many people want their ‘all in one’ phones to be THE BEST (the best camera/the best music player/the best modem/the best webbrowser/the best screen/and have lots of bluetooth; cause everything is better with bluetooth.... (sometimes I’d love a phone to be a capable ‘phone’ but then I’m the mad old dweeb that remembers when these things actually existed... ))

Weirdly, many get into headfi because the constant messages and interuptions on their phones means they cannot enjoy a simple ‘one hour meditation’ (music) track on their ‘audio player of choice‘ (phone), and get a DAP thinking they are simply a functional tool. Like any functional tool, being dedicated and focused on the task at hand generally does show them to be better at the task they do.
Case in point; for my childs birthday a couple of years ago, I bought them ’the cheapest DAP‘ my local audio shop sells. (an activo CT10; $249 australian dollars)
When getting it ready for ‘being a present’- charging it, loading it with music etc, I did the ‘silly thing’ of actually using it...
All the music for the year proceeding the purchase, ripped on Apple and Microsoft platforms (using a range of software) had massive jitter in much of the files. Hearing those files on that DAP, the jitter was so obvious... I then went and ‘double checked‘ on a few other products, and ‘yep’!, the recent rips were all ‘fairly broken’.
The board inside that music player, being built by a company dedicated to making nice audio products, easily showed the limitations of what I was working with.
Phones certainly didn’t do this, the files all sounded ‘great’ (if very unexciting, or lacking true fidelity that one gets with a ‘good DAP’) (;this is pretty telling as to their ability to be even ‘a low quality’ transport (-they are ‘a very low quality digital transport/audio player’, and I am talking FLAGSHIP PHONES from most of the ‘big players’))

If an entry level DAP could get audio ‘that far along’ then a ‘proper DAP’ (something not built to simply ‘be cheap’); is probably going to ‘do better’.
I would say the majority of the ‘modern internet’ (whose average age drastically dropped when everyone got an iPhone 3Gs, or newer.. (or equivalent winphone/android phone) has an opinion that they love to sell as if it matters. Toxicly even. Sadly many of these people who have NEVER EXPERIENCED ANYTHING MUCH FOR THEMSELVES, will parrot whatever dialogue suits their present paradigm. They will do this ad nauseum believing that they are the voice of reason and are here to save everyone money, and that their $200 super phone flogs all the flagship stuff and we are idiots if we consider anything better. (and also DAPs are a waste of money cause ‘phones are better’) :)

So, instead of loading you (or anyone else) with crazy beliefts, lets just look at a DAP purchase as an aesthetic choice.. One that will give your phone a longer daily operational life, and one that will aid your music to being undisturbed, therefor ‘more enjoyable’. If some improved sound quality ‘comes along for the ride’, then ‘yay’.

I didn’t need a new DAP, when I placed my order for the M11+ (I had a perfectly decent one already, from a higher price bracket, even...).
I was toying with a Samsung Note 20 phone (as a transport) due to android software ’HF Player’ doing ‘on the fly’ DSD conversion. (which needed a modern beefy CPU to do this task well)
The problem with the Samsung Note 20 was that it needed EVERYTHING disabled in it to get it to ‘almost’ be a decent transport; there is a lot of electrical noise and varying power demands when the twenty to thirty odd ‘lifestyle sensors’ are engaged and ‘helping us’. (Much of what I had to disable to improve sound quality wouldn’t have been practical if I needed for it to also be a phone). Even with everything disabled, and my ability to make it a dedicated HF Player device, feeding out via USB, typically one of the worst methods to transport digital audio (can be DAC dependant and price points need to be qualified here a little...), it wasn’t as good as a cheap DAP.
=>
I believed that the FiiO DAP, which did ‘on the fly DSD conversion’, now improved over previous version FiiO units, with ‘lesser CPUs’; due to FiiO putting in the most powerful CPU to be found in a modern DAP into the M11+ series, AND even offered COAXIAL (COAX) digital output, which MANY DACs prefer rather than USB.. (USB will bypass front end clock sources (one of the most important things to get right in a tranport=>DAC are the clock chips’); the M11+ was a ‘dream come true‘ to a tester like me.

I wasn’t sure ‘what to expect’, but it is fair to say I dumped that Note 20 phone, which had only been bought to try an android phone as a ‘transport’; as it was so inferior to the level of audio quality that the M11+ gives.

The M11+ can output digital via USB and via COAX (so is very flexible in this regard), and depending on the quality of your associated equipment, you might get a ‘big improvement’ in sound quality to be found, simply by forcing a budget DAC to use the exceptional clocks as found in the M11+ player (using COAX digital output method)..

TL: DR
both M11+ DAPs are ‘so good’; either is a ’win’ (follow your heart)
DAPs trounce non dedicated devices, and ‘better DAPs’ can do so ‘even more’.
Save money by not buying half steps and ‘misdirections’; the M11+ is beyond top tier to many, and ‘entry level’ to those who spend super big piles of cash- the fact that it overlaps (the middle bit in the Venn Diagram) shows that it will have exceptional resale value as it is likely on many peoples radars.
Unlike a phone that is 3-5 years active life, at most,- I still have my Sony players (walkman/minidisc etc) from twenty plus years ago, and my ‘reference DAP’ is ancient, and still totally usable. Dedicated players do not stop being super useful tools. They are a ‘buy once’ and enjoy for a long time affair.... That offer sound quality that even flagship phones cannot touch/and are ‘ somewhat outclassed ‘ by the incredible M11+ (Ltd or otherwise) :wink:
 
Last edited:
Jan 23, 2022 at 8:45 AM Post #1,568 of 2,984
How does the line out work with this player? Considering it for use both with headphones and as a line in source for various amps both 3.5mm and 4.4mm.
It is awesome!

very flexible, very capable, and those THX chips actually seem capable of doing decent line level signal (from a portable player). (not as hard a load to drive as complex ‘cans)

the android control panel (slide down from top of screen) gives quick, easy, mode switching. eg the 3.5mm output can be, variable, fixed and ‘spdif’.
I use the 4.4mm fairly often (to a decent preamp), and the sound quality is vastly better than previous ‘docked’ (wall power) DAPs and I use it happily rather than an iFi Diablo without any sense of ‘lacking’.

(great front to back and w i d e soundstage, giving natural tonality, and layered placement.
the harp strings during a florence concert, typically difficult to cleanly reveal and give correct ‘airspace’ to, in a very dynamic environment, come through ‘unscathed’, and inch nicely across the soundscape.
Tori Amos doing Yes, Anastasia.. the dampening material in the foot pedal cavity of the piano has clear material value and locatable airspace, and the dynamic range (when instruments kick in) lets the piece carry emotional impact as it should.
a few ‘poor‘ recordings reveal their shortcomings, but everything is worth listening to-
I never thought I’d use the ‘line out’ as much as I do, and I never care that I am not using other more capable ‘desktop DACs’ (that would take ‘seconds’ to switch to). -that is a ‘pretty high accolade’
 
Jan 23, 2022 at 1:06 PM Post #1,569 of 2,984
The last firmware has improved a few things.
What do you think still needs to be improved? (probably these comments will be relevant for the new version with ESS chips too).

1.Global EQ (it will be useful for some Tidal's albums)
2.After rotating the DAP and screen (connectors up) , the volume direction on touch-pad does not rotate and it works the other way around ¿
3. Visible sampling on screen lock
4. Dolby Atmos - technically possible to add?
5 ..........
If I omitted something from the previous comments, please add below .........

@FiiO

These are good ideas. In addition, I would like:

1. The FiiO music app to permit choosing by composer
2. An additional battery option to turn off fast charging....that is, a toggle to have the battery charge in regular mode only. Samsung android phones have this.


Many thanks!
 
Jan 23, 2022 at 8:22 PM Post #1,572 of 2,984
Just a ‘little appreciation’ for what the M11+ actually represents in terms of existing in the audio market;

FiiO give a LOT of ‘bang for buck’. It is no doubt how they thrive in a competitive market.
When we look at the ‘bill of materials’(BOM) for a turntable; for a small company to turn a profit, there isn’t much spent on the parts.
When we look at modern computing devices; be it a ‘laptop’, a ‘Playstation 5‘ console, or a Digital Audio Player (DAP)- the parts cost is substantial; the BOM is ‘quite high’. When we factor, further, that the BOM is made up of chips that have all been sold into competitive market spaces:whether we are talking a USB controller chip, a central processing unit (CPU), or the DAC chips/THX modules etc, they are all ‘exceptionally cheap’ for what they are evolved from-
Laptop manufacturers admit that the BOM is exceptionally high and the ‘profit’ can only be made in a market where they can move a lot of units.
DAPs do not have this going for them- they are not ‘in demand’ items the same way that the ‘latest phone’ may sell millions of units globally.

So the notion we are getting the evolution of technology (in each of the parts), each with their own Research and Development cycles, and manufacturing issues to circumvent (and more recently ‘crazy supply chain’ challenges) etc; what we get for our coin outlay, when buying one of these tech items is fantastic value.

More importantly - that these are not built to be ‘seasonal’ parts, annually replaced, means that the limited pool of consumers they are sold to, if sold a ‘good product’; do not need to buy ‘updates or replacements’.
Many manufacturers pass on firmware updates only to ‘future models’ to encourage new unit sales. This is unethical for the end consumer when the improvement could be passed on to present users of existing parts (sometimes ‘for close to nil cost’).
An easy example of this, that comes to mind- was for a camera I had a couple of years ago; the Sony A7 mk2.
The A7 mk2 has inbuilt ‘sensor shift‘ stabilisation. Some scientists came up with a way to ‘shift the sensor‘ and take multiple photos, and create a ‘very hi res’ shot. (this wouldn’t work for moving subjects, but had academic purposes, and might be useful to hobbyists and professional shooters (eg product photography etc).
The next Sony A7 camera included a firmware that gave this feature, and it was a legitimate reason to ‘upgrade’. It could have been made available to the older body, but that wouldn’t generate interest in the new product, or net sales from the existing market that clearly had lenses already for the new body.
From a corporate perspective, they did the right thing to gain ‘short term‘ sales success.
As a user I simply found another camera ecosystem, and traded my Sony kit away to a more ‘pro consumer’ company.

FiiO have been reconfiguring their parts for optimal sound for a very long time. (They even mention the generation of their mainboards etc in the marketing material cause these ‘subtle’ evolutions in design do effect ultimate sound quality; and is why many white sheet docs for DAC chips etc state the board layout, such as chip orientation & proximity to ancillary parts, that are necessary for ‘best quality’).

With each improvement FiiO make, their resultant sound quality has improved. The ‘trial and error’ of ‘changing things up’ has been aided by user feedback over an extended time period, and the resultant products, when we factor the parts cost and implementation, the testing and the evolution, means we get music players for ‘bargain basement prices’.

FiiO have probably realised that they should be climbing in this market, and have built products, such as the more ’desktop orientated’ M15 and M17 units as ‘higher priced point’ parts that will compete, very capably/‘well’, in the higher tiers of the audio market.

When I look at the M11+ as a whole; the product amazes me.
I might sound negative regarding the amplifier modules in some posts, but I am just acknowledging the parts ‘weakest aspect’.
If the amp modules were ‘slightly‘ more capable , the audio market for ‘high end DAPs’ would crash overnight. (all manufacturers would have to reprice and ultimately future DAPs would need be built cheaper in the competitive war that ensues.)

There is a lot going on in a DAP, and it starts, arguably, with the transport.
The ‘transport’ is essentially the part that gets the zeros and ones into the DAC.
To go back to the photographical parallel above; camera users know how important the lens is=> “garbage in equals garbage out”. The lens is, arguably, is more important than the sensor even...

A DAP needs to do a decent job of being a transport, or else falls prey to competing with phones for ‘sound quality’. -=ahem=-
The M11+ is a reference grade transport. (and the cheapest one I HAVE EVER SEEN)

The DAC section certainly benefits from evolution of the total design (aspects such as the shielding and isolated power delivery contribute, as they also do to other ‘subsystems’ in the player)
and to keep this post brief, I will not go to depth explaining just how insanely right and ‘evolved’ this DAP actually is..

True, the amp modules can be bested by outboard amps, but the three amps I have that show this are all worth considerably more than the M11+ DAP (not really apples to apples comparison), and are either desktop class parts (benefit of ‘unlimited power’ in circuit design and implementation); which most ‘big evolution in amp circuits I can think of, is mostly to use ‘more power’ for ‘smoother sound’. (Quad 33 didn’t have ‘current dumping’, which was the ‘evolution’ to sound quality in later generation products, as an example)

Portables have to make some sacrifices, like ultimate power draw, or they wind up being poorly reviewed like the Sony PHA3 (that used the ESS9018Pro chip, a high power drawing part, with high heat output naturally). A half day + to charge a device for ‘FIVE HOURS RUNTIME’ was often picked on, in product reviews, as the battery life was ‘below expectations’.
Class A (top of the tree solid state(SS) amplification) and Valve (what solid state was trying to compete with when Quad entered the market with the Quadd 33 and stated that “any amp built before this (valve), or after this (SS), that sound different to this ‘are built wrong’!” (not verbatim)) both require ‘lots of power’.
Class D amplification existed for ‘car subwoofers’; an audio environment that wasn’t critical, had limited power, and subwoofers themselves not really covering the higher frequncies- class D suited them..
Sony evolved ‘class D’ amplification, around the year 2000, when tasked with building a flagship surround receiver using ‘class D’ amplfication (the head engineer saying ‘you are joking right?’); S-master circuit was born, and Class D was an audiophile phenomena.
Nowadays it is standard affair, and users think Class A and Valve purchasers are hosing money that could be better spent on actual headphones... :wink:

In the aforementioned garbage in(transport)=garbage out(DAC), things get more confusing when we start to rate the quality of the ‘walk to the bin’ (AMP) as well...

The M11+ nails, mostly perfection, for the trifecta towards great sound.
The amplifier aspect CAN BENEFIT from better amplification, but to do so ‘onboard’ would require much more battery and product size. (M17 anyone?)

FiiO products are moving upmarket cause they can easily compete in these sectors. The big difference is they give more ‘bang for buck’ and have decided to make the units ‘bigger’ to be more capable in the only area their smaller units may lack... (jack input/outputs and amp power)
FiiO isn’t doing product tuning for a small ‘local area’ market anymore.. they are building highly competitive devices to the best the world can offer.
Due to their established position in the market, they are in a very capable place to ‘call the shots’ and beautifully (to ‘we’ the endusers/consumers) they are not jacking prices up to follow suit (eg like the Questyle QP1R=.QP2R price jump; first product was ‘too cheap’, so subsequent products massively increased in price).

The M11 to the M11 Pro to the M11+ has had price hiking, but it looks like the extra money has gone into licensed chips (THX amps) and better quality parts (those AKM4497s are a ‘high end’ DAC chip, with the 4499 being the ‘high power’ version of the chip/Sabre chips latest evolution ‘sips’ power(look at the runtimes)..)

The M11+ is, I believe, one of the best purchases a ‘lover of music’ could buy if they are interested in great equipment to let their music shine.

Last year I replaced a giant ‘bedside’ stack that required ‘multiple jumps’ and was an eyesore. (and I didn’t want power cables in the bedroom)
The replacement to the giant stack, was using the same transport (the venerable QP1R) into an iFi Diablo. VS the ‘previous setup’ it was a true parallel, and reduced the size down to about 1/8th the space and probably would have cost a third as much (total rig cost). (I did lose some versatility that the Chord Hugo offered, but I didn’t need those features beside my bed at night, so of no value in this comparison).
Reducing the QP1r=>Diablo rig to ‘half the size again’ and down to 1/3rd the cost; I am giving up ‘a little‘ in the amplification aspect...

So at 1/6th the cost of a ‘high end’ rig from a few years ago, and at 1/16th the space requirement, I have a practically @ parity setup.
the few thousand $ I have saved vs the ’killer desktop rig’ can easily buy me a ‘nice desktop’ amp if I really want to drive ‘large over ears headphones’ (at home?) at a quality level that is equivalent to ’high end’ setups, and the M11+ remains infield usable in a way that the previous setups just are not.

Even vs the QP1r=>Diablo config (@3x the cost of the M11+), the size reduction is more useful than the ‘slightly better’ DAC/amp that the Diablo offers.
I do feel that an M11+ should be bolstered upwards with some ancillary kit; the transport is A+ grade and will upgrade many DACs to better output, especially if they do not have a ‘dedicated’ CD transport already feeding them.. but adding things to an M11+ is optional; and is what people who want to ‘grow their hobby’ down the track can do.

In that regard the M11+ is one of the best purchases a pundit can buy- it is a fantastic base to a future A+ system, it is portable and therefor useable in just about every situation (maybe not poolside); and what the M11+ gives ‘straight from box’ (/‘as a whole’) is enough for most to feel their journey is over. =>go focus on ‘other things’, such as ‘enjoying the music’ or ‘playing with cables’ :wink:

Watching FiiO scale up in the present market is so rewarding to my spirit, as they have earned a place at the top (from humble ‘budget’ beginnings), through exceptional customer service and ’pro consumer’ dedication.

Shine on~
 
Last edited:
Jan 24, 2022 at 2:10 PM Post #1,574 of 2,984
Market observations show that DAPs are very popular and are like Swiss Army knives.
Direction of the "muscular" DAP's, but portable that the FIIO introduced with the FIIO M17 is correct,
others are following them for example Astell & Kern acro ca1000.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top