FIIO K19, the flagship desktop DAC and headphone amplifier

[JoelWilcox]

I'm enjoying adjusting the PEQ using FIIO DSP v1.1.0 from my Windows PC, but am scratching my head over the dynamic range compression (DRC) and dynamic range enhancement (DRE) settings. That is, I can't hear any change when making adjustments. I notice only a slight change with Limiter THR, which affects volume a bit. I have a good RS232 connection and everything shows in Windows Device Manager. The only connection besides RS232 for control is USB for music; only output is headphones on 4.4mm jack. Is it possible dynamic adjustments are meant for some other demographic, such as engineering/production where it will function, but not while listening to music? My player is JRiver Media Center, audio device K19 WASAPI. K19 firmware is current (v146). [Image: FIIO's"Dual Engine Limiter"]

 

[FiiO]

I'm enjoying adjusting the PEQ from my Windows PC, but am scratching my head over the dynamic range compression (DRC), dynamic range enhancement (DRE), and compression settings. That is, I can't hear any change when making adjustments. I notice only a slight change with Limiter THR, which affects volume a bit. I have a good RS232 connection and everything shows in Windows Device Manager. The only connection besides RS232 is USB for music; only output is headphones on 4.4mm jack. Is it possible dynamic adjustments are meant for some other demographic, such as engineering/production, but not while listening to music? (I guess this sounds kind of silly.) My player is JRiver Media Center, audio device K19 WASAPI. K19 firmware is current (146).

Dear friend,

Hi, here is the reply I received from the engineer:

Dynamic adjustments need specific conditions to trigger, such as shown in the picture. By default the source must be at or below -60dB to trigger, and the DRC depth in the second arrow position needs to be set, the default value of 0 will have no effect. If you need to enhance, set the value here to a positive number (as shown in the picture), if you need to attenuate, you can set it to a negative number.
General songs will rarely have -60dB, so debugging can not hear the effect!

Best regards

 

[JoelWilcox]

I'm enjoying adjusting the PEQ using FIIO DSP v1.1.0 from my Windows PC, but am scratching my head over the dynamic range compression (DRC) and dynamic range enhancement (DRE) settings. That is, I can't hear any change when making adjustments. I notice only a slight change with Limiter THR, which affects volume a bit. I have a good RS232 connection and everything shows in Windows Device Manager. The only connection besides RS232 for control is USB for music; only output is headphones on 4.4mm jack. Is it possible dynamic adjustments are meant for some other demographic, such as engineering/production where it will function, but not while listening to music? My player is JRiver Media Center, audio device K19 WASAPI. K19 firmware is current (v146). [Image: FIIO's"Dual Engine Limiter"]

Dear friend,

Hi, here is the reply I received from the engineer:

Dynamic adjustments need specific conditions to trigger, such as shown in the picture. By default the source must be at or below -60dB to trigger, and the DRC depth in the second arrow position needs to be set, the default value of 0 will have no effect. If you need to enhance, set the value here to a positive number (as shown in the picture), if you need to attenuate, you can set it to a negative number.
General songs will rarely have -60dB, so debugging can not hear the effect!

Best regards

Thank you. However, I still hear no difference. Apparently, my music never "triggers" (By default the source must be at or below -60dB to trigger). No effect if I change DREDRC THR (the "Trigger") within its range of -80 to -40 dB while maintaining a maximum positive value of 15 dB in DREDRC Depth. My music source are mainly FLAC and APE files, 44.1 to 192 kHz. In plain language (not engineer-speak), what part of the music (or file) is the "trigger"? Certainly not volume in a conventional sense. I listen to +dB volume with my headphones, so please explain what -80 to -40 dB represents? Something intrinsic to the file, perhaps? Some files may never "trigger"?

 

[wkvk]

I know they are completely different things, but has anybody compared the K19 with the R9 in terms of sounds?

 

[Drakester]

I know they are completely different things, but has anybody compared the K19 with the R9 in terms of sounds?

I would assume the K19 has better sound given it's a newer platform (ES9038PRO vs ES9039SPRO), amp, but the real difference might vary.
I feel like the K19 is an improvement over the K9 PRO ESS that I had before which is also ES9038PRO.

 

[wkvk]

I would assume the K19 has better sound given it's a newer platform (ES9038PRO vs ES9039SPRO), amp, but the real difference might vary.
I feel like the K19 is an improvement over the K9 PRO ESS that I had before which is also ES9038PRO.

Yes, that's my hypothesis.

 

[wkvk]

I've just watched that review, and the guy says that the K19 sounds worse and directly connected to a PC than when connected to a streamer. What could be causing that?

 

[MindBreak]

I've just watched that review, and the guy says that the K19 sounds worse and directly connected to a PC than when connected to a streamer. What could be causing that?

I have not tried that unit, but in my experience it is normally windows that is at fault in that situation.

 

[Patswalker]

I've just watched that review, and the guy says that the K19 sounds worse and directly connected to a PC than when connected to a streamer. What could be causing that?

In the video how was it connected to the pc? Pc’s can be pretty notorious for having noisy connections. Good usb galvanic isolators or usb cleaners or DDC devices can help clean up the usb signal a lot. I use one from Wyred for Sound called the ISO Recovery. There are many others that help. The goal is to clean up the digital connection from the pc because the noise from all the processing and other things that the pc does aside from only send digital signals to your DAC can show up in the digital signal. A streamer’s only duty most of the time is to receive signals from your smartphone or tablet via Bluetooth or WiFi and send it digitally to your DAC. The streamer as a device does only that one duty so there is much less noise as there is with a PC. And don’t forget, don’t get to hyped up by the video opinions, just because someone says something sounds better one way does not mean for you it will sound bad connected to your pc.

Also the real only way you could have that exact same experience as the reviewer is if you have the same ears the same headphones the same music source and the same pc as the reviewer. If you don’t then I recommend not worrying a whole lot and taking their review as only opinion. Most of the time when I listen with all my dacs I have them connected directly to my macmini m4 via usb, connected to the macmini m4 via usb with a usb scrubber device, ot direct connected usb to my iPad mini and I has fantastic experiences. There might be a difference to me with the usb scrubber device but not nearly enough to spend much time and money on one and for sure not enough for me to buy a whole extra device like a streamer. That’s just my experience just like that reviewer is having and sharing their experience. So yes all these things may help but just because it may be reported that it sounds better one way that does not mean it sounds bad the other way.

 

[wkvk]

In the video how was it connected to the pc?

Through USB-C.

 

[wkvk]

In the video how was it connected to the pc? Pc’s can be pretty notorious for having noisy connections. Good usb galvanic isolators or usb cleaners or DDC devices can help clean up the usb signal a lot. I use one from Wyred for Sound called the ISO Recovery. There are many others that help. The goal is to clean up the digital connection from the pc because the noise from all the processing and other things that the pc does aside from only send digital signals to your DAC can show up in the digital signal. A streamer’s only duty most of the time is to receive signals from your smartphone or tablet via Bluetooth or WiFi and send it digitally to your DAC. The streamer as a device does only that one duty so there is much less noise as there is with a PC. And don’t forget, don’t get to hyped up by the video opinions, just because someone says something sounds better one way does not mean for you it will sound bad connected to your pc.

Also the real only way you could have that exact same experience as the reviewer is if you have the same ears the same headphones the same music source and the same pc as the reviewer. If you don’t then I recommend not worrying a whole lot and taking their review as only opinion. Most of the time when I listen with all my dacs I have them connected directly to my macmini m4 via usb, connected to the macmini m4 via usb with a usb scrubber device, ot direct connected usb to my iPad mini and I has fantastic experiences. There might be a difference to me with the usb scrubber device but not nearly enough to spend much time and money on one and for sure not enough for me to buy a whole extra device like a streamer. That’s just my experience just like that reviewer is having and sharing their experience. So yes all these things may help but just because it may be reported that it sounds better one way that does not mean it sounds bad the other way.

My PC's motherboard has an optical out. Would it be a safer alternative to avoid those problems?

 

[Patswalker]

My PC's motherboard has an optical out. Would it be a safer alternative to avoid those problems?

From what I have heard and read optical signals are the cleanest signals. Jitter is a problem from pc's and I have read that optical signals can be free from jitter. I have done zero research on this aside from reading reviews that mention this and hearing Rob Watts, the chief engineer of Chord Electronics, mention that he uses optical above all other connections when he listens because of this. I on the other side of the coin have also read that optical can be limited in bitrate transfer so if you are playing super ultra high quality super high files from your computer cleaning up the usb signal might be a better option. That said, if you are using some of the streaming services you should be fine with optical. You might hear a difference but I imagine it would be much less of a difference. Look up the specs on the optical input for the K19 then look up the bit rate specs that are listed on the source from where you are playing music, meaning a streaming service or the actual dgital files you might have stores, and if they match the listed specs on the K19 you're good for optical, nothing will be lost. If the quality on the files either being streamed or that you have stored do not match, if the files are much higher quality than the optical input specs on the K19, I say F%#K IT and try optical anyway. The most important thing to do is pay much less attention to the numbers and opintions of the reviewers and pay much much more attention to your personal experince and if you like what you hear. It's way way way easy to get swept up on the hype train thinking we need to get the bery best of anything and that because someone has some well produced videos they have the calptal T truth of how things work and how things should be done and we lose track of the fact that you are the only person you should be focusing on and that your personal special unique experince is the one you should be listening to.


If you decide to try optical. I would recommend getting a good midgrade optical cable. There are many that are up in the hundreds of dollars and for the overwelming majority of people that can't afford systems that cost a kabillion dollars a good midgrade optical cable will be perfectly fine. I use this...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078XPKJRR

I don't know that I hear much of a difference than I do from cheap optical cables or expensive optical cables but it is a super robust cable that seems to be very portected and is described as protecting the integrety of the optical signal so for $30 for 6.6' and just under that for 3.3' I don't mind spending that on a good quality cable.

 

[wkvk]

From what I have heard and read optical signals are the cleanest signals. Jitter is a problem from pc's and I have read that optical signals can be free from jitter. I have done zero research on this aside from reading reviews that mention this and hearing Rob Watts, the chief engineer of Chord Electronics, mention that he uses optical above all other connections when he listens because of this. I on the other side of the coin have also read that optical can be limited in bitrate transfer so if you are playing super ultra high quality super high files from your computer cleaning up the usb signal might be a better option. That said, if you are using some of the streaming services you should be fine with optical. You might hear a difference but I imagine it would be much less of a difference. Look up the specs on the optical input for the K19 then look up the bit rate specs that are listed on the source from where you are playing music, meaning a streaming service or the actual dgital files you might have stores, and if they match the listed specs on the K19 you're good for optical, nothing will be lost. If the quality on the files either being streamed or that you have stored do not match, if the files are much higher quality than the optical input specs on the K19, I say F%#K IT and try optical anyway. The most important thing to do is pay much less attention to the numbers and opintions of the reviewers and pay much much more attention to your personal experince and if you like what you hear. It's way way way easy to get swept up on the hype train thinking we need to get the bery best of anything and that because someone has some well produced videos they have the calptal T truth of how things work and how things should be done and we lose track of the fact that you are the only person you should be focusing on and that your personal special unique experince is the one you should be listening to.


If you decide to try optical. I would recommend getting a good midgrade optical cable. There are many that are up in the hundreds of dollars and for the overwelming majority of people that can't afford systems that cost a kabillion dollars a good midgrade optical cable will be perfectly fine. I use this...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078XPKJRR

I don't know that I hear much of a difference than I do from cheap optical cables or expensive optical cables but it is a super robust cable that seems to be very portected and is described as protecting the integrety of the optical signal so for $30 for 6.6' and just under that for 3.3' I don't mind spending that on a good quality cable.

Thanks a lot for the explanation and the recommendation!

 

[Kevin Chen]

Thank you. However, I still hear no difference. Apparently, my music never "triggers" (By default the source must be at or below -60dB to trigger). No effect if I change DREDRC THR (the "Trigger") within its range of -80 to -40 dB while maintaining a maximum positive value of 15 dB in DREDRC Depth. My music source are mainly FLAC and APE files, 44.1 to 192 kHz. In plain language (not engineer-speak), what part of the music (or file) is the "trigger"? Certainly not volume in a conventional sense. I listen to +dB volume with my headphones, so please explain what -80 to -40 dB represents? Something intrinsic to the file, perhaps? Some files may never "trigger"?

Dynamic Adjustment：

The main function of this part is to improve or reduce the dynamic performance of the track.
DRCDRE THR: Dynamically adjust the start level. When the detected signal size reaches the set threshold (usually less than the set value), the function will take effect.
DRCDRE Attack: When the signal duration meets the start level setting threshold, the function takes effect.
DRCDRE Release: The signal does not meet the start level setting threshold, and when the duration reaches this set value, the function fails.
DRCDRE Ratio: Dynamically adjust the parameter proportion. The larger the value, the greater the adjustment range.
DRCDRE Depth: Dynamically adjust the size setting. When this parameter is a negative value, it will reduce the dynamic performance of the track (a simple understanding is to reduce the output amplitude); when this parameter is a positive value, it will improve the dynamic performance of the track (a simple understanding) That is to increase the output amplitude).

 

[JoelWilcox]

Dynamic Adjustment：

The main function of this part is to improve or reduce the dynamic performance of the track.
DRCDRE THR: Dynamically adjust the start level. When the detected signal size reaches the set threshold (usually less than the set value), the function will take effect.
DRCDRE Attack: When the signal duration meets the start level setting threshold, the function takes effect.
DRCDRE Release: The signal does not meet the start level setting threshold, and when the duration reaches this set value, the function fails.
DRCDRE Ratio: Dynamically adjust the parameter proportion. The larger the value, the greater the adjustment range.
DRCDRE Depth: Dynamically adjust the size setting. When this parameter is a negative value, it will reduce the dynamic performance of the track (a simple understanding is to reduce the output amplitude); when this parameter is a positive value, it will improve the dynamic performance of the track (a simple understanding) That is to increase the output amplitude).

Thanks for restating the functions, Kevin, but I know what is supposed to happen. But please explain how it's possible that I hear no change when moving any of these sliders. It seems none of my music is hitting the "start level threshold" for the function to take effect. Is this possible? Is there something I can do about it? Perhaps there is an issue that will be fixed in v1.0.1?