[FiiO BTR15/BTR5 2021/BTR5]Bluetooth DAC and Headphone Amplifier Discussion & Impressions Thread
Feb 4, 2020 at 10:13 PM Post #766 of 3,687
Don't agree at all with your comments on balanced. Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts with mid to high end IEM's/headphones and in many cases have balanced cables. I had 2.5mm and 4.4mm for my SE846's already.
My thoughts exactly. Why the reviewer thinks balanced is a "minus" baffles me.

I think I explained it pretty well in the video. I'm not sure that "Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts". If anything, I reckon that the opposite is more likely to be true at this price point. What I found when doing reviews is that a lot of people were watching them ended up confused, because they weren't audio enthusiasts and didn't understand even simple things about a product -- knowledge we take for granted with our experience. It's easy to forget that we're part of a very tiny corner of the internet.

It's just your perception, you need two DACs in balanced because the ES9218P is a stereo DAC (meaning it has only two output channels), for balanced stereo you need four channels (two for right and two for left). That's why you need an additional DAC. Take a look at this short post by Benchmark:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better

I don't want to derail the thread, but I think that you heard that the balanced output sounds "better" because it's louder and our brains tell us that music sounds better if it's louder. If you can, try to listen balanced vs single ended volume matched. Anyway, I won't try to convince, just sharing my opinion.

The balanced output has more power, so at least with full-sized headphones, the stronger amplification might make a noticeable difference. However the possibility of simply it being louder, resulting in a better perception of the music is very likely true as well.

For those that haven't watched it, I said in my video was that I wish that FiiO had made instead a single-ended output that was as powerful as the balanced output is. It is quite possible to make a high-quality SE output. I believe the misunderstanding amongst enthusiasts is that balanced is better in general rather than better in an individual product. For example, is the balanced output of the BTR5 going to best the SE output of the M11 Pro, just because it is a balanced connection? Obviously not. That way, a consumer who just wants to buy the BTR5 to use with whatever regular headphones or IEMs they have, doesn't get the shock upon buying the product that they have to spend more money to get the most out of it.
 
Feb 4, 2020 at 11:31 PM Post #767 of 3,687
I’ve had my BTR5 for about a month and a half and occasionally it just shuts off. Never while playing music but if I pause it and then go to unpause, nothing happens and the power is off and there is no response when trying to turn it on. This lasts for a couple minutes the when I try to turn it back on it works but I get an unusual “turning on sound” rather than the usual sound.
Its only happened a couple times but it’s kind of disheartening and worrisome.
 
Feb 5, 2020 at 1:20 AM Post #768 of 3,687
Setups:

Huawei P30 Pro -> UAPP (Bit-perfect) -> Fiio BTR5 (LDAC) -> Shuoer Tape
PC -> Roon (WASAPI) -> Fiio BTR5 (USB-Cable) -> every IEM/Headphone i have

My first impressions:

Good:

- Sound Signature & Quality
- Build Quality
- native DSD decoding (ES100 & PowerDAC V2 could not)
- dead silent, no static when used with PC (ES100 & PowerDAC V2 could not)

Bad:
- App (Fiio Control) compared to the Radsone one, also missing features which are in the menu of the BTR5 itself (Gain, USB-Mode, etc.)
- Controls (one time pressing for each Volume Step, long press to change Track)
- Range (i would describe it as half of the ES100)
- no functional EQ on LDAC

I still have to figure out the right lowpass Filter for me.

Question:
Which lowpass Filter did you guys use?
If u use the BTR5 with a PC, did you install the Fiio USB-Driver?
 
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Feb 5, 2020 at 2:54 AM Post #769 of 3,687
Setups:

Huawei P30 Pro -> UAPP (Bit-perfect) -> Fiio BTR5 (LDAC) -> Shuoer Tape
PC -> Roon (WASAPI) -> Fiio BTR5 (USB-Cable) -> every IEM/Headphone i have

My first impressions:

Good:

- Sound Signature & Quality
- Build Quality
- native DSD decoding (ES100 & PowerDAC V2 could not)
- dead silent, no static when used with PC (ES100 & PowerDAC V2 could not)

Bad:
- App (Fiio Control) compared to the Radsone one, also missing features which are in the menu of the BTR5 itself (Gain, USB-Mode, etc.)
- Controls (one time pressing for each Volume Step, long press to change Track)
- Range (i would describe it as half of the ES100)

I still have to figure out the right lowpass Filter for me.

Question:
Which lowpass Filter did you guys use?
If u use the BTR5 with a PC, did you install the Fiio USB-Driver?


Definitely agree with the great sound quality and the build.. Also..yes!, the controls! I still screw up trying to turn up the volume and hold it down forgetting that that changes the track and my stupid mind can never remember if the up advances the track or rewinds... I much prefer the double click to change tracks..
I have no issues with the range vs the ES100. (with iphone 8).. I sure wish the iPhone could do LDAC though...
Can't remember which filter I use.. I'll have to check tomorrow but I think I just went back to the default setting after playing with them. Same with the EQ.. Played with it a bit but then just turned it off.
 
Feb 5, 2020 at 3:06 AM Post #770 of 3,687
Yeah LDAC drops out faster since i pinned it to 990 kbps, if i would let it choose its own bitrate, it would have higher range.
But i compared it to the ES100 which i also pinnend to 990 kbps, which then has double the range of the BTR5.

EQ doesn't even work with LDAC on the BTR5, on the ES100 it work's, but i played with it and decided to not use it.
Even if i could get the mids more out on the Tape with an EQ, i let it be like it is.
 
Feb 5, 2020 at 3:24 AM Post #771 of 3,687
Well I use SE846 with MMCX connectors and Fiio's own Short balanced is perfect length & quality. I had a longer 2.5mm balanced cable but wanted the neatness of the shorter one.
https://penonaudio.com/fiio-lc-2.5bs-3.5bs.html?search=FiiO LC-2.5BS

They show length at Length: 45cm
Mine is 60cm which is ideal for either clipping to my shirt collar or stashed in my shirt pocket. 45cm would be too short for wearing the IEMs cable behind & over my ears.
Great with my FH7 and SE846.

Balance cable. Made by ted allen <tedallen0220@gmail.com>
 

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Feb 5, 2020 at 3:42 AM Post #772 of 3,687
It's just your perception, you need two DACs in balanced because the ES9218P is a stereo DAC (meaning it has only two output channels), for balanced stereo you need four channels (two for right and two for left). That's why you need an additional DAC. Take a look at this short post by Benchmark:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better

I don't want to derail the thread, but I think that you heard that the balanced output sounds "better" because it's louder and our brains tell us that music sounds better if it's louder. If you can, try to listen balanced vs single ended volume matched. Anyway, I won't try to convince, just sharing my opinion.

I'm not so sure its just about Volume. I've been listening to audio long enough to know about volume differences. Reduced crosstalk must also play a part then there are the electronics to syc. between outputs from each DAC/amp ? Also, the ZX300/ZX507 are improved on the balamced IMO.

Obviously cables are different and with low impedance IEM's such a my 8 Ohm SE846's I can tell the difference between cables (likely due to the differences in their impedance on an already low one, especially premium silver vs a standard copper cable).
 
Feb 5, 2020 at 3:51 AM Post #773 of 3,687
I think I explained it pretty well in the video. I'm not sure that "Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts". If anything, I reckon that the opposite is more likely to be true at this price point. What I found when doing reviews is that a lot of people were watching them ended up confused, because they weren't audio enthusiasts and didn't understand even simple things about a product -- knowledge we take for granted with our experience. It's easy to forget that we're part of a very tiny corner of the internet.



The balanced output has more power, so at least with full-sized headphones, the stronger amplification might make a noticeable difference. However the possibility of simply it being louder, resulting in a better perception of the music is very likely true as well.

For those that haven't watched it, I said in my video was that I wish that FiiO had made instead a single-ended output that was as powerful as the balanced output is. It is quite possible to make a high-quality SE output. I believe the misunderstanding amongst enthusiasts is that balanced is better in general rather than better in an individual product. For example, is the balanced output of the BTR5 going to best the SE output of the M11 Pro, just because it is a balanced connection? Obviously not. That way, a consumer who just wants to buy the BTR5 to use with whatever regular headphones or IEMs they have, doesn't get the shock upon buying the product that they have to spend more money to get the most out of it.

A BTR5 is a premium price for a BT dongle and price has never been an essential link with sound quality IMO. I've had £300 DAP's that sound just as good as £700 DAP's.

If people aren't audio enthusiasts they would buy a BTR3 or other cheap one, not the likes of BTR5/ES100.
 
Feb 5, 2020 at 4:09 AM Post #774 of 3,687
Mine is 60cm which is ideal for either clipping to my shirt collar or stashed in my shirt pocket. 45cm would be too short for wearing the IEMs cable behind & over my ears.
Great with my FH7 and SE846.

Balance cable. Made by ted allen <tedallen0220@gmail.com>

Not too short, SE846 are worn behind & over the ears.

As you can see, still plenty of slack without being too much. 60cm would be at belly length :slight_smile:

20200205_085717.jpg
 
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Feb 5, 2020 at 4:15 AM Post #775 of 3,687
I’ve had my BTR5 for about a month and a half and occasionally it just shuts off. Never while playing music but if I pause it and then go to unpause, nothing happens and the power is off and there is no response when trying to turn it on. This lasts for a couple minutes the when I try to turn it back on it works but I get an unusual “turning on sound” rather than the usual sound.
Its only happened a couple times but it’s kind of disheartening and worrisome.

I'm assuming you know there's an adjustable time out where it switches itself off if nothing is played for a while ?
 
Feb 5, 2020 at 4:23 AM Post #776 of 3,687
Setups:


Bad:

- App (Fiio Control) compared to the Radsone one, also missing features which are in the menu of the BTR5 itself (Gain, USB-Mode, etc.)
- Controls (one time pressing for each Volume Step, long press to change Track)
- Range (i would describe it as half of the ES100)
- no functional EQ on LDAC

Your Bad points

- never used most of options on ES100 but if its your thing then the ES has more adjustable options
- Controls - This is a bonus for me. Just the one button to "blind" locate and rarely alter volume by more that 2 stops either way once my volume level set, but I do only use one set of IEM's with it.
- For me the BTR5 has the best range of any BT device I've had. Maybe a QC issue between BTR5's or source dependant (use mine with S10+ mostly)
- Never use EQ with any device I have but appreciate some may like to and they haven't ruled out getting it working with LDAC yet


Ref: If u use the BTR5 with a PC, did you install the Fiio USB-Driver? That's a YES
 
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Feb 5, 2020 at 4:38 AM Post #777 of 3,687
Ref: If u use the BTR5 with a PC, did you install the Fiio USB-Driver? That's a YES

Before installing the USB-Driver i could chose 16, 24 and 32 bit with sample rates up to 384Khz, after installing the USB-Driver the option for 24 bit is gone.
That's why i asked!
 
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Feb 5, 2020 at 6:24 AM Post #778 of 3,687
Before installing the USB-Driver i could chose 16, 24 and 32 bit with sample rates up to 384Khz, after installing the USB-Driver the option for 24 bit is gone.
That's why i asked!

Was covered further back I think. Once driver is installed the likes of Tidal/Spotify/AmazonHD play at tracks standard rate (And BTR5 screen shows it too).
 
Feb 5, 2020 at 6:38 AM Post #779 of 3,687
Since i mostly use WASAPI (with Roon, TIDAL, etc.), it doesn't matter for Music playback, but the System Sound (also Games) are now resampelt to the respective value.
 

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