[FiiO BTR15/BTR5 2021/BTR5]Bluetooth DAC and Headphone Amplifier Discussion & Impressions Thread
- Thread starter FiiO
- Start date
hmscott
1000+ Head-Fier
If the BTR5 is set to USB DAC Priority (not the default out of the box) the BTR5 stays connected via BT to whatever device it has established a connection, but the BTR5 "silences" the BT device and only plays audio through the USB DAC connection - until you disconnect the USB cable and then the BTR5 switches to the audio coming from the BT device.
Out of the box the BTR5 is set to Bluetooth Priority, if you connect the BTR5 with USB cable to a device capable of establishing a USB DAC Audio connection the BTR5 will ignore that USB device if you already have a Bluetooth connection established. In that case the BTR5 will charge with power from the USB cable, if you have Charge=On set in the BTR5, which is also the default out of the box setting.
No, the BTR5 maintains the BT connection, but the BT connection is not usable until you disconnect the USB DAC audio connection.
Although I have not tried it, the BTR5 may switch to the BT connection if the USB DAC Audio signal disconnects from the source - even though the USB cable is still connected. That example is something I have not tried yet, but be aware that may be possible.
Another related gotcha. If you have your BTR5 set to auto-power-off after say 3 minutes (that's my setting), and the BTR5 has a BT connection to a device or a USB DAC Audio connection to a device then the BTR5 auto-power-off considers the BTR5 "active" and is never tripped
BTR5 auto-power-off is useful only if you "disconnect" your devices from the BTR5 as when you power off your PC connected via USB and the USB DAC Audio connection ends, and you turn off BT on your phone or other BT device, so that the BTR5 is then left powered on but without a device connected - then auto-power-off trips after the delay you set, and the BTR5 powers off.
Idle audio from connected devices is not considered a auto-power-off condition - if the BTR5 is still "actively" connected to a device it won't trip auto-power-off.
Yes, but you can't use the connected BT device while the BTR5 is in USB DAC Priority mode and connected to a USB Cable that provides a USB DAC Audio connection. For example I can continue using my BT connected device even if I have a USB Power Adapter connected to the BTR5 for charging only.
The rest of my answer is long, but I wanted to cover all of the gotcha's I've experienced so far, as the BTR5 BT/DAC modes can be confusing or frustrating when trying to figure this out on your own the first time through. I will put the long text between spoiler brackets so as to not block everyone's mobile reading of the thread - you need to click Spoiler in Blue to see what I wrote...
As answered by others the choosing of BT or DAC priority can only be set for the BTR5 in the apps, and the default priority is BT first - if there is a paired BT device the BTR5 will auto-reconnect to the BT device, if not the BTR5 stays in "Reconnect" until you connect a USB DAC device, then the BTR5 will connect to it.
I found the default of BT Priority useless for me as I wanted to be able to automatically switch between USB DAC audio and BT audio, and once connected to a BT device the BTR5 will ignore the USB DAC audio stream and only use the USB connection for charging (if you have the BTR5 Charge = On). BT Priority mode was less useful to me if I had to go to all of my BT devices and disable BT before starting to use USB DAC audio.
If a BT device comes into "view" the BTR5 will auto-reconnect to that BT device even if you are in DAC Mode, which made the BT priority mode behavior less useful for my own personal use. But, if you want to switch over to your phone's BT for a call you could enable BT on your phone when you want to make or take a call - which would then cause the BTR5 to automatically connect to the phone while listening on the USB DAC - leaving BT off on all your devices otherwise to allow the BTR5 to connect via USB DAC.
If the BTR5 is set to DAC Priority, when you are walking around listening to your Phone BT or PC BT - and you sit down and connect your BTR5 to a USB DAC cable on your PC or USB DAC on your phone, the BTR5 will switch to processing audio on USB and "silence" but not disconnect from your BT device - this can be confusing - as you won't actually be able to use the BT device while connected using USB DAC audio - but if you pull out the USB Cable from the BTR5 it will switch to the already connected BT device or "Reconnect" to another available BT device if the BTR5 was not already connected to a BT device.
Yes, it can get confusing. You can get into a state in either Priority Mode where you don't immediately get your desired effect. There are work arounds - or working steps - you can take to get the desired effect easily.
Here are some examples under DAC Priority, the mode I've decided to use, and I do describe BT Priority and why I don't use it as well:
1) When using my PC I leave my PC BT on, that way I can connect to PC USB in DAC mode simply by connecting the PC USB cable - the BTR5 automatically switches to DAC from BT and I can enjoy either DAC or BT just by connecting or disconnecting the USB cable physically - I don't need to do anything else in software, with one exception...
2) I have to make sure that BT is off on any other device than the PC while I am enjoying listening on my PC. Otherwise the BTR5 may use BT mode with another device instead of the PC when I disconnect the USB cable connected to the PC. Which can be confusing, although helpful if you want to switch to your phone when not on PC USB.
3) You may have already figured out this next example, purposely disable BT on your PC so when you disconnect from PC USB DAC your BTR5 will be ready to go mobile connected to your Phone via BT- you will need to disable BT on your PC and only have your Phone BT enabled so that the BTR5 only see's one device available on BT - the reconnect is "random" if you have more than one BT device active.
4) It an get confusing, yes, and it would be "better" if the BTR5 could be connected to more than one BT device at a time along with DAC USB mode priority, such that you could get "calls" while on USB DAC mode without having to disconnect the USB cable from the PC, or if you were to be able to prioritize the BT devices you could default to PC BT while at home (after disconnecting the USB cable) and the BTR5 would switch from PC BT to Phone BT if the phone can interrupt with an incoming call - like I've used on Plantronics devices for years, but the BTR5 doesn't have this dual connected BT order priority feature.
5) What happens if the BTR5 is on USB DAC priority and you are using the Phone USB connection? Same thing. Disconnect the Phone USB cable from the BTR5 and the BTR5 will switch to it's BT connection - likely most usefully to your Phone's BT so you can disconnect the cable from the phone and be mobile with your phone on BT.
6) Why didn't I pick BT Priority? It would require me to turn off BT on my devices (all of them) in order for the USB DAC audio connection to work. And, I found I needed to disconnect the USB cable and reconnect the USB cable again if I forgot to turn off BT on *any* of my BT devices before connecting the USB DAC audio cable, as BT Priority means just that - the BTR5 will ignore the USB data connection if the BTR5 can connect to any BT device it has paired with - the BTR5 might even try to pair with an unknown BT device even if you are already connected on USB DAC if one comes in range... I don't know for sure about this last situation as I haven't tried it, but it just came to mind as a possibility.
The one critical advantage of BT Priority is if you charge your BTR5 via USB cable connected to a device that will support USB DAC and you wish the BTR5 to continue using BT while charging off of that USB DAC mode capable device. As if the BTR5 automatically switched to USB DAC mode while charging only is desired you might miss BT phone calls. This might be where BT Priority is useful, but it's not useful enough for me.
On USB DAC Priority if you want to use your BT Phone for calls on BT you need to physically disconnect the USB cable from your PC or Phone (yup) in order to take or make a call on BT. The good thing is if you do disconnect the USB DAC cable from your PC or Phone to take a call on BT the BTR5 will automatically switch to BT once the USB DAC cable is disconnected.
One more related gotcha - you need to remember if you have Charge=On or Charge=Off when charging the BTR5...
Charge = ON is required to Charge the BTR5 via a USB-C cable connected from a power adapter, I use a 25w Samsung adapter. If you have Charge = Off no USB connection will power or recharge the BTR5. I know that sounds obvious, but what if you are listening to a BT device via your BTR5 and you connect your BTR5 to a power adapter thinking "hey I might as well charge my BTR5 so I can use it longer later"... nope the BTR5 will just ignore that USB power. So if you want to charge your BTR5 with Charge=Off, you must Turn Off your BTR5 before any USB power will work. It's easy to forget what mode your BTR5 is in, so you have to consciously remember to Power Off your BTR5 in order to charge it when Charge=Off.
I know that was long, but I wanted to cover all the gotcha's I've experienced, as it can be confusing or frustrating trying to figure this out on your own the first time through.
If you can't understand something as I've said it please ask right away. Thank you.
I found the default of BT Priority useless for me as I wanted to be able to automatically switch between USB DAC audio and BT audio, and once connected to a BT device the BTR5 will ignore the USB DAC audio stream and only use the USB connection for charging (if you have the BTR5 Charge = On). BT Priority mode was less useful to me if I had to go to all of my BT devices and disable BT before starting to use USB DAC audio.
If a BT device comes into "view" the BTR5 will auto-reconnect to that BT device even if you are in DAC Mode, which made the BT priority mode behavior less useful for my own personal use. But, if you want to switch over to your phone's BT for a call you could enable BT on your phone when you want to make or take a call - which would then cause the BTR5 to automatically connect to the phone while listening on the USB DAC - leaving BT off on all your devices otherwise to allow the BTR5 to connect via USB DAC.
If the BTR5 is set to DAC Priority, when you are walking around listening to your Phone BT or PC BT - and you sit down and connect your BTR5 to a USB DAC cable on your PC or USB DAC on your phone, the BTR5 will switch to processing audio on USB and "silence" but not disconnect from your BT device - this can be confusing - as you won't actually be able to use the BT device while connected using USB DAC audio - but if you pull out the USB Cable from the BTR5 it will switch to the already connected BT device or "Reconnect" to another available BT device if the BTR5 was not already connected to a BT device.
Yes, it can get confusing. You can get into a state in either Priority Mode where you don't immediately get your desired effect. There are work arounds - or working steps - you can take to get the desired effect easily.
Here are some examples under DAC Priority, the mode I've decided to use, and I do describe BT Priority and why I don't use it as well:
1) When using my PC I leave my PC BT on, that way I can connect to PC USB in DAC mode simply by connecting the PC USB cable - the BTR5 automatically switches to DAC from BT and I can enjoy either DAC or BT just by connecting or disconnecting the USB cable physically - I don't need to do anything else in software, with one exception...
2) I have to make sure that BT is off on any other device than the PC while I am enjoying listening on my PC. Otherwise the BTR5 may use BT mode with another device instead of the PC when I disconnect the USB cable connected to the PC. Which can be confusing, although helpful if you want to switch to your phone when not on PC USB.
3) You may have already figured out this next example, purposely disable BT on your PC so when you disconnect from PC USB DAC your BTR5 will be ready to go mobile connected to your Phone via BT- you will need to disable BT on your PC and only have your Phone BT enabled so that the BTR5 only see's one device available on BT - the reconnect is "random" if you have more than one BT device active.
4) It an get confusing, yes, and it would be "better" if the BTR5 could be connected to more than one BT device at a time along with DAC USB mode priority, such that you could get "calls" while on USB DAC mode without having to disconnect the USB cable from the PC, or if you were to be able to prioritize the BT devices you could default to PC BT while at home (after disconnecting the USB cable) and the BTR5 would switch from PC BT to Phone BT if the phone can interrupt with an incoming call - like I've used on Plantronics devices for years, but the BTR5 doesn't have this dual connected BT order priority feature.
5) What happens if the BTR5 is on USB DAC priority and you are using the Phone USB connection? Same thing. Disconnect the Phone USB cable from the BTR5 and the BTR5 will switch to it's BT connection - likely most usefully to your Phone's BT so you can disconnect the cable from the phone and be mobile with your phone on BT.
6) Why didn't I pick BT Priority? It would require me to turn off BT on my devices (all of them) in order for the USB DAC audio connection to work. And, I found I needed to disconnect the USB cable and reconnect the USB cable again if I forgot to turn off BT on *any* of my BT devices before connecting the USB DAC audio cable, as BT Priority means just that - the BTR5 will ignore the USB data connection if the BTR5 can connect to any BT device it has paired with - the BTR5 might even try to pair with an unknown BT device even if you are already connected on USB DAC if one comes in range... I don't know for sure about this last situation as I haven't tried it, but it just came to mind as a possibility.
The one critical advantage of BT Priority is if you charge your BTR5 via USB cable connected to a device that will support USB DAC and you wish the BTR5 to continue using BT while charging off of that USB DAC mode capable device. As if the BTR5 automatically switched to USB DAC mode while charging only is desired you might miss BT phone calls. This might be where BT Priority is useful, but it's not useful enough for me.
On USB DAC Priority if you want to use your BT Phone for calls on BT you need to physically disconnect the USB cable from your PC or Phone (yup) in order to take or make a call on BT. The good thing is if you do disconnect the USB DAC cable from your PC or Phone to take a call on BT the BTR5 will automatically switch to BT once the USB DAC cable is disconnected.
One more related gotcha - you need to remember if you have Charge=On or Charge=Off when charging the BTR5...
Charge = ON is required to Charge the BTR5 via a USB-C cable connected from a power adapter, I use a 25w Samsung adapter. If you have Charge = Off no USB connection will power or recharge the BTR5. I know that sounds obvious, but what if you are listening to a BT device via your BTR5 and you connect your BTR5 to a power adapter thinking "hey I might as well charge my BTR5 so I can use it longer later"... nope the BTR5 will just ignore that USB power. So if you want to charge your BTR5 with Charge=Off, you must Turn Off your BTR5 before any USB power will work. It's easy to forget what mode your BTR5 is in, so you have to consciously remember to Power Off your BTR5 in order to charge it when Charge=Off.
I know that was long, but I wanted to cover all the gotcha's I've experienced, as it can be confusing or frustrating trying to figure this out on your own the first time through.
If you can't understand something as I've said it please ask right away. Thank you.
For example, if a BTR5 owner unfamiliar with USB DAC audio connects their BTR5 to their PC or phone to charge the BTR5, in BT Priority the music will continue over BT while the BTR5 charges - instead of the BTR5 confusingly switching to a USB DAC audio connection as well as charging.
We BTR5 USB DAC audio users can switch the BTR5 into USB DAC Priority to use the BTR5 as we need it to operate, allowing USB DAC Audio more readily.
Last edited:
ASIO still not active on my desktop running Win10... I can see only 44.1K even with higher sample rate. Any help is appreciated.
Ps: I have managed to change the rate on the sound properties (in Win10) manually but the ASIO still not active.
Ps: I have managed to change the rate on the sound properties (in Win10) manually but the ASIO still not active.
jsmiller58
Headphoneus Supremus
For the first time I tried my BTR5 as wired DAC/Amp via USBC. Not sure how I got it into a strange state but after sounding great it then became hollow, tinny, and muted, whether via BT or wired. It also showed a phone icon on its screen which I had never seen before. I tried the factory reset but no joy. I then updated the firmware and everything went back to normal. I have a bunch of portable and/or dongle DAC/amps (9038s, Hidizs S8, minidsp il-dsp, ES100, xDSD, PowerDAC v2, Hidizs DH1000) so I think I will just stick to using my BTR5 in BT mode!
Last edited:
ActuallySparky
100+ Head-Fier
Now that I've had the BTR5 for a couple of weeks, I wanted to write up some thoughts on it vs the Radsone ES-100 and the Shanling UP4. New to head-fi, so let me know if this is the wrong place for this kind of post.
The lineup
Left to right: Radsone ES100, Shanling UP4, and the Fiio BTR5
Sound quality over bluetooth
Bluetooth is my primary use case for this kind of device - I'm on the go a lot, and need a way to get reasonably high-quality audio out of my phone. This review is strongly tilted to IEM use - I do almost no listening to full sized headphones, so can't offer thoughts on their performance.
The ES100 and BTR5 are roughly on par sound wise via their balanced output, although the ES100 has the better unbalanced output. The sound on both is clean and there's no noticeable coloration. The ES100 has the lowest noise floor of the group. It's honestly impressive how good these two sound - I'm amazed at how good Bluetooth has gotten since it was introduced over a decade ago. Sure I can hear a few audio artifacts, but only if I listen in a quiet environment with IEMs that cost significantly more than either unit.
I found the pairing was mostly environmentally-sensitive. When on the go, there's a lot of noise, so brasher IEMs with a good seal work better. The Campfire Audio Polaris was my favorite (although the poor isolation made it a no-go in louder locations), but I also enjoyed the TRN V90 and the TinHiFi T2/T4. At home, both DAC/AMPs do a better job than I was expecting of driving more neutral IEMs like the DK-2001s. Even over bluetooth it's faithful to a fair level of detail and a smooth listen.
The UP4 loses in the audio quality category - it suffers some noise and has a hiss on more sensitive IEMs. I found listening to music on it sharp and fatiguing, although using it to listen to conference calls wasn't bad. Since it's the same price as the ES100 and noticeably worse at its primary function, I can't recommend it.
I didn't do very much testing using these via USB. I have better headphone sources for desktop use, so it was mostly a perfunctory check. All three were plug and play for redbook audio. Hi-def audio was iffy if it worked depending on which computer and OS I plugged them into. HMScott has a bunch of great posts about USB mode, so look for those for more insight into getting it working and qualitative thoughts on this mode.
Build quality and ergonomics
The BTR5 is the clear winner in this category. The smooth aluminum and glass enclosure feels solid and well designed in the hand. It's a satisfying object. I like that the BTR5 gives me a choice of if I want a clip or not, and which orientation I want that clip to face.
The ES100 is well put together, but it's very utilitarian. I have no complaints about its build quality or how durable it feels, but it is plasticky.
Both the UP4 and BTR5 put the outputs on one of the small faces. I think this provides better ergonomics with most earphones and attachments. The side outputs on the ES100 are serviceable, but with some earphone connectors can have a cord protruding at a weird angle.
I like the UP4's little wheel; it's a satisfying way to change volume.
The lineup
Left to right: Radsone ES100, Shanling UP4, and the Fiio BTR5
Sound quality over bluetooth
Bluetooth is my primary use case for this kind of device - I'm on the go a lot, and need a way to get reasonably high-quality audio out of my phone. This review is strongly tilted to IEM use - I do almost no listening to full sized headphones, so can't offer thoughts on their performance.
The ES100 and BTR5 are roughly on par sound wise via their balanced output, although the ES100 has the better unbalanced output. The sound on both is clean and there's no noticeable coloration. The ES100 has the lowest noise floor of the group. It's honestly impressive how good these two sound - I'm amazed at how good Bluetooth has gotten since it was introduced over a decade ago. Sure I can hear a few audio artifacts, but only if I listen in a quiet environment with IEMs that cost significantly more than either unit.
I found the pairing was mostly environmentally-sensitive. When on the go, there's a lot of noise, so brasher IEMs with a good seal work better. The Campfire Audio Polaris was my favorite (although the poor isolation made it a no-go in louder locations), but I also enjoyed the TRN V90 and the TinHiFi T2/T4. At home, both DAC/AMPs do a better job than I was expecting of driving more neutral IEMs like the DK-2001s. Even over bluetooth it's faithful to a fair level of detail and a smooth listen.
The UP4 loses in the audio quality category - it suffers some noise and has a hiss on more sensitive IEMs. I found listening to music on it sharp and fatiguing, although using it to listen to conference calls wasn't bad. Since it's the same price as the ES100 and noticeably worse at its primary function, I can't recommend it.
I didn't do very much testing using these via USB. I have better headphone sources for desktop use, so it was mostly a perfunctory check. All three were plug and play for redbook audio. Hi-def audio was iffy if it worked depending on which computer and OS I plugged them into. HMScott has a bunch of great posts about USB mode, so look for those for more insight into getting it working and qualitative thoughts on this mode.
Build quality and ergonomics
The BTR5 is the clear winner in this category. The smooth aluminum and glass enclosure feels solid and well designed in the hand. It's a satisfying object. I like that the BTR5 gives me a choice of if I want a clip or not, and which orientation I want that clip to face.
The ES100 is well put together, but it's very utilitarian. I have no complaints about its build quality or how durable it feels, but it is plasticky.
Both the UP4 and BTR5 put the outputs on one of the small faces. I think this provides better ergonomics with most earphones and attachments. The side outputs on the ES100 are serviceable, but with some earphone connectors can have a cord protruding at a weird angle.
I like the UP4's little wheel; it's a satisfying way to change volume.
Last edited:
lucasd
New Head-Fier
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Posts
- 20
- Likes
- 8
Charging seems broken.
When I only listen on BT or charging from disabled state the unit is cold (around 20C).
However, when I charge when the unit in powered on state, even not listening to anything, the unit is getting hot (>40C).
It seems something is not working properly (firmware), as in such case the unit could be slightly warmer...
When I only listen on BT or charging from disabled state the unit is cold (around 20C).
However, when I charge when the unit in powered on state, even not listening to anything, the unit is getting hot (>40C).
It seems something is not working properly (firmware), as in such case the unit could be slightly warmer...
Is there a better way. to connect the BTR5 to a lanyard than sticking a big ring on the back? Lord i wish it had a little pass through in the casing somewhere.
Didn't the transparent shirt clip already has a hole on the clip for lanyard? Alternatively, get the official leather case and punch a hole into it.
carpler
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2013
- Posts
- 172
- Likes
- 26
I am still waiting to receive my BTR5 (I think that all shipments to my country have slowed down), but while waiting I ask you something.
For the installation of the USB DAC drivers on a Windows PC, the official manual recommends turning on the device and installing the driver WHILE the device is connected to the PC. However several post in this thread reccomends to install the drivers WITHOUT the device connected.
Can anyone clarify what is the best way to proceed?
For the installation of the USB DAC drivers on a Windows PC, the official manual recommends turning on the device and installing the driver WHILE the device is connected to the PC. However several post in this thread reccomends to install the drivers WITHOUT the device connected.
Can anyone clarify what is the best way to proceed?
Chris Kaoss
Headphoneus Supremus
Installing the drivers before connecting the device is a safe bet.
I did it that way and all runs smooth and as intented.
I did it that way and all runs smooth and as intented.
ActuallySparky
100+ Head-Fier
Alas not really. The Earstudio has a little hole in it for clipping to a lanyard, but the BTR5 is smooth and monolithic.
EDIT: As someone else pointed out, the clippy case thing for the BTR5 does have a hole that a lanyard would work with. I don't use the clip much so I don't know how securely it really holds the BTR5 if its going to be swinging around.
Last edited:
Has anyone tested differences between bluetooth (ldac) and wired ? I found a difference at Anette Askvik - Liberty 1:07 (Tidal), the bell sounds more clearly via wired connection.
Last edited:
Chris Kaoss
Headphoneus Supremus
The fit of the plaatic case is rock solid.
There's no fear about losing things.
Users who are viewing this thread
