Feliks Audio ENVY

[Exekuhtor]

Have you compared this with the melz?

No point honestly, they will sound completely different. Currently i own just 2 pairs of E88CC's (because of my Valhalla 2), the other pair is not great, the JJ's are a competitor to the Brimars because they're warm. The Melz are way more analytical and detailed than any other tubes i can socket in right now. I have ordered a few more pairs of E88CC, including Gold Lion 6922 / E88CC Genalex and an EH 6922 GOLD Electro Harmonix. They also don't break the bank, especially compared to some of the extremely sought after 6SN7's NOS tubes.
For a true Melz competitor you would probably need to get the G-73R tubes, which are 12AU7's. I don't know if you need a different adapter for them, i would assume so? I wanted to get the E88CC adapters because i already own a Valhalla 2, which i use for IEM's (ultra low noise floor for a tube amp with IEM's, will also probably upgrade to the 3).
So if anyone knows if the adapter you need for the 12AU7 -> 6SN7 is different than the E88CC -> 6SN7, that would be interesting. Currently i've no plan in getting 12AU7's.

Edit:
Hmm, it seems they are somewhat interchangable:
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The 12AU7 and E88CC (also known as 6922 or 6DJ8) are both dual triode vacuum tubes, but they differ in their gain factor and are not directly interchangeable in all applications. The 12AU7 has a lower gain factor and is typically used in applications where low gain is desired, such as in certain reverb drivers or as a gain stage in amplifiers. The E88CC, on the other hand, has a higher gain factor and is often used in applications where more gain is needed, such as in some preamp stages or as a phase inverter.



Here's a more detailed comparison:

• 12AU7 (ECC82):
  This tube is known for its low gain, which makes it suitable for applications where a more neutral or less amplified signal is needed. It is a common choice for reverb drivers, as it can drive the reverb tank with sufficient power without adding excessive gain.
  

• E88CC (6922, 6DJ8):
  This tube has a higher gain factor than the 12AU7 and is often used in applications where more gain is needed, such as in preamp stages or as a phase inverter. It can also be used in other applications where its higher gain is advantageous.
  

Key Differences:

• Gain Factor:
  The 12AU7 has a lower gain factor (around 19) compared to the E88CC (around 33), according to a thread on The Amp Garage.
  

• Plate Resistance:
  The E88CC has a lower plate resistance, allowing it to pass more current, but its maximum dissipation may be lower.
  
  
• Applications:
  The 12AU7 is commonly used in applications where low gain is desired, while the E88CC is preferred for applications requiring more gain.
  

Interchangeability:
While both tubes share the same pinout (9-pin B9A base) and can be used in some circuits, they are not entirely interchangeable. Substituting one for the other can lead to a different gain structure in the circuit, which may not be desirable in all applications.

 

[Doug2507]

So if anyone knows if the adapter you need for the 12AU7 -> 6SN7 is different than the E88CC -> 6SN7, that would be interesting. Currently i've no plan in getting 12AU7's.

Same amount of pins, different pin out, different adapters.

You could use 6CG7 / 6FQ7 with those adaptors which drops gain back down to 6SN7 / 12AU7 levels.

I asked Piotr the other week about E80CC which also has high gain like the E88CC, his reply: "I do not recommend this solution. Why? Envy has already loads of amplification on this stage, adding a tube which is even giving more would not only raise the signal levels, but also all the unwanted background noises. In practice, you can use it with a proper adapter, nothing wrong will happen to your Envy."

So no fear in anything going wrong, just not one of the recommended tubes. Guessing range on the volume pot is reduced with those in vs a 6SN7 for example?

 

[Exekuhtor]

Same amount of pins, different pin out, different adapters.

You could use 6CG7 / 6FQ7 with those adaptors which drops gain back down to 6SN7 / 12AU7 levels.

Meh, ok, so i won't bother with them, don't have any 12AU7 anyway.

Guessing range on the volume pot is reduced with those in vs a 6SN7 for example?

I don't use the volume pot anyway, it's at a fixed 12 o'clock and i control the volume via the Serene.
I also noticed zero noise with this setup (Immanis, medium gain).

Hmm, 6CG7... Interesting. Maybe i'll find a pair that interests me...


Kinda crazy how you can convert basically most of the tubes into any other tube socket. With some you need 2-to-1 adapters etc...

 

[nwavesailor]

Same amount of pins, different pin out, different adapters.

You could use 6CG7 / 6FQ7 with those adaptors which drops gain back down to 6SN7 / 12AU7 levels.

I asked Piotr the other week about E80CC which also has high gain like the E88CC, his reply: "I do not recommend this solution. Why? Envy has already loads of amplification on this stage, adding a tube which is even giving more would not only raise the signal levels, but also all the unwanted background noises. In practice, you can use it with a proper adapter, nothing wrong will happen to your Envy."

So no fear in anything going wrong, just not one of the recommended tubes. Guessing range on the volume pot is reduced with those in vs a 6SN7 for example?

Oh well, I at least have 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 sitting in boxes unused.

I suppose I should send Deyan a PM and get some walnut 6SN7 - E88CC adapters!

 

[Evangelist]

Hi ! Thinking a lot about this one…

is there much difference between the standard and performance ? If I go for the performance will change the tubes for sure , so just for the internal wiring is it worth the bump in price ?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Exekuhtor]

is there much difference between the standard and performance ? If I go for the performance will change the tubes for sure , so just for the internal wiring is it worth the bump in price ?

Do not care about the wiring, the tubes are the most important part. Either get the basic version (even without tubes if possible, or just the PSvanes but not the basic 300B tubes) and upgrade them yourself, there are a lot of impressions here to read ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-envy.960600/page-646#post-18649740 ), or get the performance edition and be happy (for some time) with the Full Music 300B's. I also recommend upgrading / sidegrading the PSvane 6SN7's in any case too. There's a lot to read in here!
The Envy is a fantastic amp and the upgrade from the Ferrum stack is really big (had Oor + Hypsos before the Envy).

 

[Evangelist]

Do not care about the wiring, the tubes are the most important part. Either get the basic version (even without tubes if possible, or just the PSvanes but not the basic 300B tubes) and upgrade them yourself, there are a lot of impressions here to read ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-envy.960600/page-646#post-18649740 ), or get the performance edition and be happy (for some time) with the Full Music 300B's. I also recommend upgrading / sidegrading the PSvane 6SN7's in any case too. There's a lot to read in here!
The Envy is a fantastic amp and the upgrade from the Ferrum stack is really big (had Oor + Hypsos before the Envy).

Thanks for the inputs!

Also have the Ferrum stack with wandla GSE upgraded and will keep it as my solid state amp. Also had the Feliks Evo that sold a few months ago and kept the echo 2, since I have been using more iems now days .. but a few days ago put the echo 2 to work with my ZMF VC and the magic returned to my hears, so here we are

Maybe will do that , go just for the standard version with walnut wood ( the dark tone is beautiful!) and match a WE300 tubes and try to grab some Ken Rad 6SN7 Black Glass. I think will be my perfect sound signature ( from what I have been reading).

 

[JTbbb]

Thanks for the inputs!

Also have the Ferrum stack with wandla GSE upgraded and will keep it as my solid state amp. Also had the Feliks Evo that sold a few months ago and kept the echo 2, since I have been using more iems now days .. but a few days ago put the echo 2 to work with my ZMF VC and the magic returned to my hears, so here we are

Maybe will do that , go just for the standard version with walnut wood ( the dark tone is beautiful!) and match a WE300 tubes and try to grab some Ken Rad 6SN7 Black Glass. I think will be my perfect sound signature ( from what I have been reading).

As alluded to above, if you have no interest in the supplied tubes, try getting tubeless. It is what I did, but was some time ago.

 

[Evangelist]

As alluded to above, if you have no interest in the supplied tubes, try getting tubeless. It is what I did, but was some time ago.

Thanks! Will try to do that, already sent an email to my usual store.

 

[nfandi]

Thanks! Will try to do that, already sent an email to my usual store.

If that becomes a problem you could ask if they would supply the standard Envy fitted with WE300B’s. They ship the Envy Meisterwerk with WE300B’s so it’s at least worth asking the question.

 

[Evangelist]

If that becomes a problem you could ask if they would supply the standard Envy fitted with WE300B’s. They ship the Envy Meisterwerk with WE300B’s so it’s at least worth asking the question.

Great , will try to do just that !

 

[nfandi]

Great , will try to do just that !

Just check the pricing difference if they say they can do it. You might get a better price for the WE300B’s from Lyric Audio in Spain.

 

[JTbbb]

I spoke to Feliks Audio in conjunction with my dealer.

 

[Evangelist]

Just check the pricing difference if they say they can do it. You might get a better price for the WE300B’s from Lyric Audio in Spain.

Thank you so much, for the input!

 

[Exekuhtor]

Today i tried something new, use the Envy with not warm, but extremely technical tubes (TM's & Telefunken E88CC with diamond) as a preamp into the CFA3, driving primarily the Immanis. Then with one switch removing the Envy from the chain (just straight Serene -> CFA3) and comparing.
It's not all about tonality. The added golden shimmer which smoothens the treble and give the midrange a richness is remarkable, but the difference in three-dimensionality is crazy. As soon as i remove the preamp Envy, the music sounds way more flat and just loses its holographic depth.
I am now irrefutably convinced that you need tubes in the chain to get the most out of any extremely resolving driver.

I have to admit, i also am curious about 12AU7's now. Blame @Doug2507. So Deyan makes me a few adapters for the Envy in Amazaque, i was even able to order them with a greater height, so i can get them out more easily. While they are a bit more expensive, i'd much rather get them along 2-3 very nice 12AU7 pairs and still be below the price of one pair of overhyped 6SN7's. I've bought like 4 very expensive pairs since owning the Envy, and only the Melz and Brimars i find worthwhile, and even when it comes to them i would probably not buy them again, but just play the adapter game and search for similiar or even better sounding tubes that cost a fraction.
Allthough i really, really like the BrimarCV1988. Hard to say. But for example one tube of my expensive TungSol pair developed a bit of noise, which i'm quite allergic too. Sucks, but lessons learned. Oh well, better late than never to realize it. I'm happy with all my 300B's which are all new production, can't imagine paying ~2k for a NOS pair that makes problems.
Are 300B NOS tubes a thing or are they rather insignificant / not worthwhile / in rare use? To be fair, the Elrog and Western Electric options, aswell as the more hidden Takas and Emission Labs 300B's are magnificent. I can hardly imagine anything beating those.